landlords - your advice please
Discussion
ok so im a small time landlord, heres my questions
property 1 : 2 bed 2nd floor flat, had the same tenants for 2 years now, no problems with payment.they have gone on holiday for 1 month to india, so im in there today carrying out maintenance.
now the place is absolutly filty, i mean really disgusting. they mentioned before they went that the carpets needed cleaning.
im not prepared to clean the carpets as they were clean when they moved in. and what should i do about the decoration ? all they walls have nunerous scrapes, the kids have drawn on them, glosswork marked and damaged everywhere etc, and just that fact that they dont clean the place.
im thinking a strongly worded letter before they come back.
i am doing the rent at £55 pcm below the average rate for the area, so to keep them sweet too.
they signed a 6 month tenancy before they moved in, but once the 6 months expired i havent re-newed it.
property 2:
now this is a newly converted fff. the place is immaculate and brand new, in a nice part of town.
i was approached by a single dss mother who checked out ok, so i let her move in on benefits.
this was on the understanding that the ground floor was being totally refurbished so there would be lots of building work and noise for quite a while. she has been there 3 months now.
she signed a comprehensive tenancy agreement
problems: she got a cat without permission which subsequenly pissed everwhere and the flat now stinks of kitten piss on the brand new carpet.
she has here boyfriend there nearly most nights to stay, and tries to hide it from me.
she now says she wants to move out at the end of her 6 month contract because of the building noise !
and to top it off she asked if she could use my wireless broadband yesterday as she cant afford it!
im now in the frame of mind that i have been too soft and accomodating to my tenants, and they need to remember they are living in someone elses propery and need to respect the rules.
property 1 : 2 bed 2nd floor flat, had the same tenants for 2 years now, no problems with payment.they have gone on holiday for 1 month to india, so im in there today carrying out maintenance.
now the place is absolutly filty, i mean really disgusting. they mentioned before they went that the carpets needed cleaning.
im not prepared to clean the carpets as they were clean when they moved in. and what should i do about the decoration ? all they walls have nunerous scrapes, the kids have drawn on them, glosswork marked and damaged everywhere etc, and just that fact that they dont clean the place.
im thinking a strongly worded letter before they come back.
i am doing the rent at £55 pcm below the average rate for the area, so to keep them sweet too.
they signed a 6 month tenancy before they moved in, but once the 6 months expired i havent re-newed it.
property 2:
now this is a newly converted fff. the place is immaculate and brand new, in a nice part of town.
i was approached by a single dss mother who checked out ok, so i let her move in on benefits.
this was on the understanding that the ground floor was being totally refurbished so there would be lots of building work and noise for quite a while. she has been there 3 months now.
she signed a comprehensive tenancy agreement
problems: she got a cat without permission which subsequenly pissed everwhere and the flat now stinks of kitten piss on the brand new carpet.
she has here boyfriend there nearly most nights to stay, and tries to hide it from me.
she now says she wants to move out at the end of her 6 month contract because of the building noise !
and to top it off she asked if she could use my wireless broadband yesterday as she cant afford it!
im now in the frame of mind that i have been too soft and accomodating to my tenants, and they need to remember they are living in someone elses propery and need to respect the rules.
In both cases you have let the property to the tenants and what they do with it is up to them unless what they are doing is forbidden by the tenancy agreement or is significantly depreciating your asset.
If they've damaged walls & carpets you make sure you deduct the cost from their deposit, if the deposit doesn't cover it you sue them through Money Claims Online for the balance.
Do the first tenant's know that you're in the property whilst they are away? Their standard of cleanliness or tidiness isn't really any of your business unless your tenancy agreement says that they must keep it tidy at all times?
You could warn them that at the moment you think that there is going to be damage that will need to be deducted from their deposit - the trouble is that they might just upsticks without paying their last month's rent. I'd make sure you've got details of where they work etc. in case you have to track them.
With the cat you should tell the tenant you aren't giving consent and that she must not have a cat (I have a nasty feeling there might be some issues about unfair contract terms wording re pets?), if she has caused damage again she must put that right before the end of the tenancy.
Frankly these things are part and parcel of being a landlord.
If they've damaged walls & carpets you make sure you deduct the cost from their deposit, if the deposit doesn't cover it you sue them through Money Claims Online for the balance.
Do the first tenant's know that you're in the property whilst they are away? Their standard of cleanliness or tidiness isn't really any of your business unless your tenancy agreement says that they must keep it tidy at all times?
You could warn them that at the moment you think that there is going to be damage that will need to be deducted from their deposit - the trouble is that they might just upsticks without paying their last month's rent. I'd make sure you've got details of where they work etc. in case you have to track them.
With the cat you should tell the tenant you aren't giving consent and that she must not have a cat (I have a nasty feeling there might be some issues about unfair contract terms wording re pets?), if she has caused damage again she must put that right before the end of the tenancy.
Frankly these things are part and parcel of being a landlord.
unclemark123 said:
property 1 : 2 bed 2nd floor flat, had the same tenants for 2 years now, no problems with payment.
If it's only cosmetic I wouldn't upset them, two years with no problems is just what you want right now, just remind them that they'll have to make good when they do move on.Property 2 you'll have to hope deposit covers new carpets.
tuffa said:
I too have had tenant problems in the past but not as bad as yours; presumably you took a reasonable deposit upfront? It may not be sufficient to all repairs but sometimes easier to take a hit rather than resort to the courts
If you regard untidy and mucky tenants as problems you've had some good 'uns! “In both cases you have let the property to the tenants and what they do with it is up to them unless what they are doing is forbidden by the tenancy agreement or is significantly depreciating your asset.”
Absolutely agree.
”Do the first tenant's know that you're in the property whilst they are away? Their standard of cleanliness or tidiness isn't really any of your business unless your tenancy agreement says that they must keep it tidy at all times? “
Again absolutely agree
”You could warn them that at the moment you think that there is going to be damage that will need to be deducted from their deposit - the trouble is that they might just upsticks without paying their last month's rent. I'd make sure you've got details of where they work etc. in case you have to track them. “
No disagree, just take photos and make mental note of any damages etc. etc.
”With the cat you should tell the tenant you aren't giving consent and that she must not have a cat (I have a nasty feeling there might be some issues about unfair contract terms wording re pets?), if she has caused damage again she must put that right before the end of the tenancy.”
No disagree, it is too late now, again just make mental note and take photos etc.
”Frankly these things are part and parcel of being a landlord.”
Absolutely agree, one at times have to look beyond other people’s standards of living, some of the things I have seen would shock most of you on PH. One property I let out to an immigrant couple with 2 children, if you saw this couple out around town you would think they were well to do, but their home is an absolute filthy tip. If they ever vacate the property, then it will have to be a complete refurbishment, but until then not a penny will be spent on the property.However since they have been in the property for over 6 years, their rent has more than paid for the property.
Absolutely agree.
”Do the first tenant's know that you're in the property whilst they are away? Their standard of cleanliness or tidiness isn't really any of your business unless your tenancy agreement says that they must keep it tidy at all times? “
Again absolutely agree
”You could warn them that at the moment you think that there is going to be damage that will need to be deducted from their deposit - the trouble is that they might just upsticks without paying their last month's rent. I'd make sure you've got details of where they work etc. in case you have to track them. “
No disagree, just take photos and make mental note of any damages etc. etc.
”With the cat you should tell the tenant you aren't giving consent and that she must not have a cat (I have a nasty feeling there might be some issues about unfair contract terms wording re pets?), if she has caused damage again she must put that right before the end of the tenancy.”
No disagree, it is too late now, again just make mental note and take photos etc.
”Frankly these things are part and parcel of being a landlord.”
Absolutely agree, one at times have to look beyond other people’s standards of living, some of the things I have seen would shock most of you on PH. One property I let out to an immigrant couple with 2 children, if you saw this couple out around town you would think they were well to do, but their home is an absolute filthy tip. If they ever vacate the property, then it will have to be a complete refurbishment, but until then not a penny will be spent on the property.However since they have been in the property for over 6 years, their rent has more than paid for the property.
unclemark123 said:
im now in the frame of mind that i have been too soft and accomodating to my tenants, and they need to remember they are living in someone elses propery and need to respect the rules.
- ahem*
That said, if they have been breaking the rules, call them up on it - but seriously mate, get that idea out of your head.
1.
tenants responsibility to look after the place .... gently remind them of that in the nicest possible way
get the money for teh writing on the walls and any other damage back from the deposit
carpets do need cleaning with kids and its easy for them to spill drinks etc.. maybe suggest going halves with them as they shouldnt need cleaning quite so soon in your opinion
raise the rent to the porper amount when you next sign them (or anyone else)
2.
how bad is any of this ? is she a nasty person. So she has her BF round.. big deal. As long as you are getting your rent and she is not damaging the property.
id state that you're upset that she didnt ask your perminssion for the cat.. try to work out a deal with her but she must pay for carpet cleaning etc. to remove small of piss
above all, take a deep breath and don't go in all guns blazing... there is no such thing as the perfect tenant who always makes you happy so don't presume them to be ignorant pigs that can only be shouted at. Go in very gently, diplomatically and politely and treat them with the utmost respect.
In teh unlikely event that they do turn into ignorant unreasonable pigs, make the call and have their kneecaps taken out Ay-sap
tenants responsibility to look after the place .... gently remind them of that in the nicest possible way
get the money for teh writing on the walls and any other damage back from the deposit
carpets do need cleaning with kids and its easy for them to spill drinks etc.. maybe suggest going halves with them as they shouldnt need cleaning quite so soon in your opinion
raise the rent to the porper amount when you next sign them (or anyone else)
2.
how bad is any of this ? is she a nasty person. So she has her BF round.. big deal. As long as you are getting your rent and she is not damaging the property.
id state that you're upset that she didnt ask your perminssion for the cat.. try to work out a deal with her but she must pay for carpet cleaning etc. to remove small of piss
above all, take a deep breath and don't go in all guns blazing... there is no such thing as the perfect tenant who always makes you happy so don't presume them to be ignorant pigs that can only be shouted at. Go in very gently, diplomatically and politely and treat them with the utmost respect.
In teh unlikely event that they do turn into ignorant unreasonable pigs, make the call and have their kneecaps taken out Ay-sap
ok guys, i have written to them both today, you comments on the following pls 
1st March 2009
Mr Chacko and Partner,
I hope you had a nice time in India.
As you will see I have been into the flat as asked, and have done some redecoration etc.
Unfortunately, the cleaning of the carpets is something that is your responsibility whilst you are living there, as the carpets were in a clean condition when you moved in.
I noticed there have been small areas of mould appearing. I have cleaned them, but if they re appear can you please make an effort to clean them with mould and mildew cleaner, as left unattended will affect the fabric of the building.
If you cannot clean the mould off or if it is getting out of control, can you please let me know.
I have this week had extra vents installed to the bedroom and living room windows. This will help to keep air circulating around the flat, and to stop mould.
It is also important that the doors are not all closed all the time, this will also stop mould and keep air moving.
Can you please take time to occasionally wash all of the curtains and shower curtain.
I did notice that that the decoration of the flat is getting damaged/marked. Although of no immediate concern, may I remind you that if you ever decide to leave this will have to be repaired prior to your departure, or by deduction from your deposit.
Yours sincerely,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Dear Michelle,
I write reguarding our recent conversation and your cat.
I , and visitors I have had to xxxxx Road, have noticed the very strong smell of cat urine coming from your flat. The smell is in fact so strong you can smell it as soon as you walk through the main entrance door.
Unfortunately this is completely unacceptable. Can you please arrange for the carpet/areas affected to be thoroughly cleaned immidiatly as to remove the smell. May I remind you this also constitutes a health risk, and as discussed contravenes your tenancy agreement.
Although I did say the cat could stay, I am not prepeared to put up with the smell any longer.
As you have expressed you are intending to leave at the end of your tenancy contract, can you please ensure the decorative stones are replaced to the main fireplace in the living room as I have noticed they are missing.
I regret that the on going building work is upsetting you, but you were made fully aware of the building work taking place before you moved in, and I have ensured that no loud work is taking place at unsociable times.
As I mentioned full soundproofing is to be installed throughout the ground floor ceiling in the next few weeks, so this should make things quieter for you.
Finally this coming week, there will be one day of high noise as a concrete floor has to be broken up to the rear of the ground floor, I will let you know what day as soon as I know.
Yours sincerely,
Mark.
1st March 2009
Mr Chacko and Partner,
I hope you had a nice time in India.
As you will see I have been into the flat as asked, and have done some redecoration etc.
Unfortunately, the cleaning of the carpets is something that is your responsibility whilst you are living there, as the carpets were in a clean condition when you moved in.
I noticed there have been small areas of mould appearing. I have cleaned them, but if they re appear can you please make an effort to clean them with mould and mildew cleaner, as left unattended will affect the fabric of the building.
If you cannot clean the mould off or if it is getting out of control, can you please let me know.
I have this week had extra vents installed to the bedroom and living room windows. This will help to keep air circulating around the flat, and to stop mould.
It is also important that the doors are not all closed all the time, this will also stop mould and keep air moving.
Can you please take time to occasionally wash all of the curtains and shower curtain.
I did notice that that the decoration of the flat is getting damaged/marked. Although of no immediate concern, may I remind you that if you ever decide to leave this will have to be repaired prior to your departure, or by deduction from your deposit.
Yours sincerely,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Dear Michelle,
I write reguarding our recent conversation and your cat.
I , and visitors I have had to xxxxx Road, have noticed the very strong smell of cat urine coming from your flat. The smell is in fact so strong you can smell it as soon as you walk through the main entrance door.
Unfortunately this is completely unacceptable. Can you please arrange for the carpet/areas affected to be thoroughly cleaned immidiatly as to remove the smell. May I remind you this also constitutes a health risk, and as discussed contravenes your tenancy agreement.
Although I did say the cat could stay, I am not prepeared to put up with the smell any longer.
As you have expressed you are intending to leave at the end of your tenancy contract, can you please ensure the decorative stones are replaced to the main fireplace in the living room as I have noticed they are missing.
I regret that the on going building work is upsetting you, but you were made fully aware of the building work taking place before you moved in, and I have ensured that no loud work is taking place at unsociable times.
As I mentioned full soundproofing is to be installed throughout the ground floor ceiling in the next few weeks, so this should make things quieter for you.
Finally this coming week, there will be one day of high noise as a concrete floor has to be broken up to the rear of the ground floor, I will let you know what day as soon as I know.
Yours sincerely,
Mark.
IMO
your letters sound a bit dehumanised and stoney faced
can't you go and meet with these people and express this stuff to them in a friendly but assertive way ? Face to face it will be far easier to tell them where they are going wrong and what their obligations are without them feeling devalued or defensive.
your letters sound a bit dehumanised and stoney faced
can't you go and meet with these people and express this stuff to them in a friendly but assertive way ? Face to face it will be far easier to tell them where they are going wrong and what their obligations are without them feeling devalued or defensive.
unclemark123 said:
they signed a 6 month tenancy before they moved in, but once the 6 months expired i havent re-newed it.
This could be your biggest problem, you should NEVER NEVER have tenants in a property without a Tenancy Agreement in place.Your first letter is not business like enough, never mind whether they had a nice time in India, just point out whats wrong, what it contravenes and what you want done about it and then put a time limit on it stating what will happen if they dont comply.
Also dont forget if you want any of them out at the end of a tenancy agreement you have to serve them with a Section 21 eviction notice two months before the end of the tenancy
changingman said:
unclemark123 said:
they signed a 6 month tenancy before they moved in, but once the 6 months expired i havent re-newed it.
This could be your biggest problem, you should NEVER NEVER have tenants in a property without a Tenancy Agreement in place.jackal said:
IMO
your letters sound a bit dehumanised and stoney faced
can't you go and meet with these people and express this stuff to them in a friendly but assertive way ? Face to face it will be far easier to tell them where they are going wrong and what their obligations are without them feeling devalued or defensive.
In my experience, which is quite extensive, most tenants dont take any notice of friendly chats, I dont think his letters are succinct enough!!! Its a business, correspond with them in a business like manneryour letters sound a bit dehumanised and stoney faced
can't you go and meet with these people and express this stuff to them in a friendly but assertive way ? Face to face it will be far easier to tell them where they are going wrong and what their obligations are without them feeling devalued or defensive.
Alfa_75_Steve said:
changingman said:
unclemark123 said:
they signed a 6 month tenancy before they moved in, but once the 6 months expired i havent re-newed it.
This could be your biggest problem, you should NEVER NEVER have tenants in a property without a Tenancy Agreement in place.Edited by changingman on Sunday 1st March 20:33
changingman said:
unclemark123 said:
they signed a 6 month tenancy before they moved in, but once the 6 months expired i havent re-newed it.
This could be your biggest problem, you should NEVER NEVER have tenants in a property without a Tenancy Agreement in place.Your first letter is not business like enough, never mind whether they had a nice time in India, just point out whats wrong, what it contravenes and what you want done about it and then put a time limit on it stating what will happen if they dont comply.
he's trying to solve a problem not make them hate him and then torch the whole building down ?
bear in mind that if YOU rented a property there would be soemthing that YOU did that would f
k YOUR tenant off... its the way it goes. Dont treat them like animals or transactions in a business.Of course, if they are really are subhuman then well, you shoudl not have let them in there in teh first place, never mind not bothering to renew their contract
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