Brake failure - how much of a thing?
Discussion
Just watching one of those 24 hours in A&E type programmes and one of the patients is admitted following an RTC “due to brake failure”.
It struck me that I hear this all the time and have largely assumed that’s it’s an excuse to try to mask human error. Am I being unreasonable in my presumptions? I don’t think braking systems are particularly complex and certainly not unreliable.
It struck me that I hear this all the time and have largely assumed that’s it’s an excuse to try to mask human error. Am I being unreasonable in my presumptions? I don’t think braking systems are particularly complex and certainly not unreliable.
I have been driving 35 years now and during that time I have always had classic cars, I have had the brakes on these "fail" a few times. But in my experience they give loads of warning something is not right and it's a fairly gradual thing.
I would find it very hard to see the situation where on anything half modern you would go from good brakes, good brakes, good brakes... NO brakes ahhh.
Cars have a diagonal split in the brakes so even if a pipe was to get cut by a flying bit of metal or something you would still have 2 wheels with brakes.
I would find it very hard to see the situation where on anything half modern you would go from good brakes, good brakes, good brakes... NO brakes ahhh.
Cars have a diagonal split in the brakes so even if a pipe was to get cut by a flying bit of metal or something you would still have 2 wheels with brakes.
My first car (in 1978) was a knackered Vauxhall Viva. H reg - 1970, so 8 years old.
My current car is 9 years old and looks almost new (apart for the pathetic faded black plastic), and still drives really well. It'll probably outlive me.
In 1979 I was on my honeymoon in Wales, so 1 year of driving Godness.
We went down a very long relatively steep hill. I used the brakes all the way. I was aware that that's not really the best thing to do, especially with drums all round, but I wouldn't drive the car at more than 50 in 4th due to the sound of imminent engine self-destruction, so brakes it had to be.
Near the bottom of the hill there was a cross roads, and we were in the minor road. The view to each side was not great at all.
I'm sure you all can see what was coming, but I couldn't.
We did get to the other side, sailing across at about 10mph and came to a halt about 25ft after the line.
So that would have gone down as brake failure - user induced failure.
No issues at all ever since, not even in a 2CV6 (ah, the memories...).
My current car is 9 years old and looks almost new (apart for the pathetic faded black plastic), and still drives really well. It'll probably outlive me.
In 1979 I was on my honeymoon in Wales, so 1 year of driving Godness.
We went down a very long relatively steep hill. I used the brakes all the way. I was aware that that's not really the best thing to do, especially with drums all round, but I wouldn't drive the car at more than 50 in 4th due to the sound of imminent engine self-destruction, so brakes it had to be.
Near the bottom of the hill there was a cross roads, and we were in the minor road. The view to each side was not great at all.
I'm sure you all can see what was coming, but I couldn't.
We did get to the other side, sailing across at about 10mph and came to a halt about 25ft after the line.
So that would have gone down as brake failure - user induced failure.
No issues at all ever since, not even in a 2CV6 (ah, the memories...).
It does happen.
I had a well maintained 996 turbo that suffered brake failure when driving just a few years ago. It had been for an MOT the day previous. The last thing the tester did was a brake test, I then drove it home with a clean pass. Overnight a lot of brake fluid leaked out from the caliper cross-over pipe that had failed during the brake test. I did not notice this as I drove away the next morning. I was 5 miles up the road before I needed to brake for the first time with any purpose, and the brakes simply weren't there.
I had a well maintained 996 turbo that suffered brake failure when driving just a few years ago. It had been for an MOT the day previous. The last thing the tester did was a brake test, I then drove it home with a clean pass. Overnight a lot of brake fluid leaked out from the caliper cross-over pipe that had failed during the brake test. I did not notice this as I drove away the next morning. I was 5 miles up the road before I needed to brake for the first time with any purpose, and the brakes simply weren't there.
There was a bunch of high performance pads some years ago which became notorious for the friction material crumbling or detaching from the backplate. I would imagine that those caused some brown trousers.
Closest I can recall to something like that was when the alternator failed in my S211 E class - the brake assistance is electric. I got a warning on the dash to pull over and that braking power was reduced. It was on the motorway, and it wasn't kidding.
Closest I can recall to something like that was when the alternator failed in my S211 E class - the brake assistance is electric. I got a warning on the dash to pull over and that braking power was reduced. It was on the motorway, and it wasn't kidding.
I had a 'where have the brakes gone' moment on the A5 at one of the roundabouts at Shrewsbury in an MGB. It was late at night and I was rushing up to each roundabout and braking hard. I had just replaced the front pads and the new cheap pads had faded to nothing.
That was perhaps the third hard 80 - 20mph braking. Replaced pads with proper ones and a lesson learned.
That's the only sudden brake failure in 55 years driving.
That was perhaps the third hard 80 - 20mph braking. Replaced pads with proper ones and a lesson learned.
That's the only sudden brake failure in 55 years driving.
I had a Metro dump all of its brake fluid as I was braking for some traffic lights on the way to work. Managed to stop using the handbrake and continued to drive to work and back home later, although very carefully. Also had a Mini with adjustable suspension that a garage so badly messed up the corner weights there was only effective braking on one front wheel which would just lock up. That was fun. Last one was a Volvo V40 that had a sensor go in the brake servo, so the brake pedal was like pressing on a block of wood. It would stop eventually, but only with me absolutely standing on the brakes. The AA had to come and take that to a garage.
Did happen once (or twice on the same journey) in the mid 90’s. Mk2 Astra GTE, going home after seeing my girlfriend, Welsh B road came to a sharpish corner, went to brake and foot went straight to the floor, went around the corner ok, tested brakes and were all ok so carried on.
Further on, in town, came up to traffic light controlled junction, lights on red. Went to brake, again, foot straight to the floor and just sailed through the junction. (Luckily late at night and no other traffic).
When the garage checked the car, found that one of the rear drums was split and came to the conclusion that if the drum / split was in the right (or wrong!) place, the brake shoes just pushed the drum open, resulting in zero stopping.
Further on, in town, came up to traffic light controlled junction, lights on red. Went to brake, again, foot straight to the floor and just sailed through the junction. (Luckily late at night and no other traffic).
When the garage checked the car, found that one of the rear drums was split and came to the conclusion that if the drum / split was in the right (or wrong!) place, the brake shoes just pushed the drum open, resulting in zero stopping.
A few years ago in a 3 year old car, I was crawling along a motorway, stop/start. Only doing a few mph and needed to stop. The pedal felt the same, same resistance under foot but nothing happened. Approaching the stationary car in front I pressed the pedal as hard as I could and still nothing. I then had to flick the parking brake and came to a very abrupt halt.
I made my way to the hard shoulder and used the brakes to slow/stop which had then decided to work again. Tried it a few times on the hard shoulder and was now working as normal. This was the only time this happened. Car was an auto PHEV.
I made my way to the hard shoulder and used the brakes to slow/stop which had then decided to work again. Tried it a few times on the hard shoulder and was now working as normal. This was the only time this happened. Car was an auto PHEV.
I've had brake pipes burst so lost braking on half the wheels, most sobering, and if you were a bit of a fussing fart I can see how you'd consider it to be "no brakes" because you have to push the pedal like it's a 70s car with no servo to stop at all. Someone who has only ever driven mega servoed modern dross would almost certainly crash.
It's quite common on 00s and early 10s Mercs. My friend was a "master tech" for them and said when they had that big recall for brake servos corroding through part of the test when replaced was to STAND on the pedal and a good third of the time some rotten brake line that hadn't seen full braking force in years would let go. The Best Or Nothing indeed.
It's quite common on 00s and early 10s Mercs. My friend was a "master tech" for them and said when they had that big recall for brake servos corroding through part of the test when replaced was to STAND on the pedal and a good third of the time some rotten brake line that hadn't seen full braking force in years would let go. The Best Or Nothing indeed.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Monday 29th June 11:06
I had it once on my 1978 Mini (my first car) in about 1986, and nothing since. I think it should have had dual circuit brakes but it certainly didn't feel like it as I braked for a red light coming down a hill and sailed past the lights whilst filling my pants. What followed was my first attempt to fix said brakes solo at the side of the road at my Uni digs. Kicking off a love/hate relationship with British cars and a strong respect for the importance of working brakes...
Twice for me, once a hose burst on a track day, another time road a brake pad delaminated and the pistons popped out. Both had dual circuit brakes but this didn't help, when fluid spews out one circuit the pedal goes to the floor same as if you were bleeding brakes, and you don't get any pressure in the other circuit. Fortunately both times I wasn't going particularly quick and used the handbrake to come to a halt.
My wife had a Pug 306, she tried reversing out of a supermarket bay, and the car almost tipped it's self onto it's nose where the rear pads in the drums on near side decided to "unglue" themselves. Real glad she was not doing 70 odd when that happened.
I had front brakes/disc's checked and rear drums cleaned out and new pads in, the mechanic thought they were that shagged they had never been checked before.
luckily she took the ice cream back into Asda so it didn't melt waiting recovery
306 was a fine car don't see many these days
I had front brakes/disc's checked and rear drums cleaned out and new pads in, the mechanic thought they were that shagged they had never been checked before.
luckily she took the ice cream back into Asda so it didn't melt waiting recovery
306 was a fine car don't see many these days
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I had a rear brake pad fall out during a race with my Peugeot 106. But that was because the locking pin wasn t secured so it rattled out and took the pad with it.
I had my best brown trousers on that day.
Had that on my Elise last year. Fortunately I heard it fall out and didn't need my brakes at that moment! Not something I ever want to repeat. I had my best brown trousers on that day.
Brake fade is definitely a thing. Total brake failure much more unusual but it does happen.
Years ago a mate of mine suffered total brake failure on his XR2 after hitting some large lump of debris in the road at speed, which managed to sever both brake circuits somehow. He survived unscathed but the car did not.
Years ago a mate of mine suffered total brake failure on his XR2 after hitting some large lump of debris in the road at speed, which managed to sever both brake circuits somehow. He survived unscathed but the car did not.
Volvo 760
Had a problem that slowly became worse and worse in that the front RH caliper used the slowly come on resulting in a gradual slowing and finally a very HOT caliper, as it locked on.
I became quite adept at raising the car. Wheel off .screwdriver to hand and prising the pads off. the getting it all back together Sometimes it was embarrassing esp the time i was bimbling along the M6 ,and as it my want,on approaching roadworks used the road until it narrowed, passing as least 1 mile of traffic.
As i got into the single lane section. the fault reappeared and i had very bad vibes about creating a rather large jam. Luckily i cleared the section and vanished off he next turn off to rectify vowing that i would get it fixed on return from Scotland .
I had 400 plus miles of trouble free motoring and on return went up the M3 to GSF at Heathrow to get a caliper repair kit. coming back along the M3.
i had reason to use the brakes, which to my horror were not there as pedal firmly hit the floor,. so it was hitting 1st gear.. luckily that Volvo had a manual gear selection option and both hands on the handbrake..the two second rule certain came into use that day. I finally got back home on advance observation and handbrake only. Checked the brake fluid. and not a drop missing. Realised is was the master cylinder rubbers completely shot. Needed a new handbrake cable and a master cylinder repair kit, . Very worrying time 15 miles of the M3 in rush hour, although i never ventured from L1 and the hard shoulder was available. at the time
Had a problem that slowly became worse and worse in that the front RH caliper used the slowly come on resulting in a gradual slowing and finally a very HOT caliper, as it locked on.
I became quite adept at raising the car. Wheel off .screwdriver to hand and prising the pads off. the getting it all back together Sometimes it was embarrassing esp the time i was bimbling along the M6 ,and as it my want,on approaching roadworks used the road until it narrowed, passing as least 1 mile of traffic.
As i got into the single lane section. the fault reappeared and i had very bad vibes about creating a rather large jam. Luckily i cleared the section and vanished off he next turn off to rectify vowing that i would get it fixed on return from Scotland .
I had 400 plus miles of trouble free motoring and on return went up the M3 to GSF at Heathrow to get a caliper repair kit. coming back along the M3.
i had reason to use the brakes, which to my horror were not there as pedal firmly hit the floor,. so it was hitting 1st gear.. luckily that Volvo had a manual gear selection option and both hands on the handbrake..the two second rule certain came into use that day. I finally got back home on advance observation and handbrake only. Checked the brake fluid. and not a drop missing. Realised is was the master cylinder rubbers completely shot. Needed a new handbrake cable and a master cylinder repair kit, . Very worrying time 15 miles of the M3 in rush hour, although i never ventured from L1 and the hard shoulder was available. at the time
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