Whats the engine called on a...
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There is a very detailed breakdown in William Taylors excellent tome of all things Lotus. The original Type 907, in the Exprit S1 and S2, was first seen in the Lotus Elite of 1974 and was derived from a Vauxhall (GM to our American cousins) slant 4 of 1973cc, producing 140 bhp originally. It appeared in the Esprit S1 in 1976 with 160bhp. It was taken out to 2174cc for the S3 and subsequent Turbos, HC and SE models, with various induction techniques and chargecooling with corresponding increases in power. All these versions were referred to as 910s. The V8, designated 918, came out in 1997.
The Elise was the first and so far only Lotus to use a Rover engine, although if you want to be pedantic the Type 8 Sports Racer of 1954 used an MG/Morris unit!
The Elise was the first and so far only Lotus to use a Rover engine, although if you want to be pedantic the Type 8 Sports Racer of 1954 used an MG/Morris unit!
hedgerley said:
There is a very detailed breakdown in William Taylors excellent tome of all things Lotus. The original Type 907, in the Exprit S1 and S2, was first seen in the Lotus Elite of 1974 and was derived from a Vauxhall (GM to our American cousins) slant 4 of 1973cc, producing 140 bhp originally...
Hi,
Sounds like a very good book. While technically, the Elite was the first Lotus application of the 907 engine, it first appeared in the Jensen Healey in 1969 in front engine layout teamed with a Ford tranny. About 11,000 examples of the JH were produced from '69-'74. It was this association with Jensen which pumped in badly needed capital allowing Lotus stay alive long enough to produce the Elite, Eclat and later the Esprit, all using the 907 engine.
An interesting sidenote, the Eclat was to be Lotus's followup to the Elan+2 in terms of offering a 4-seat Sports Sedan. To Colin's dismay, the Eclat outperformed the later S1 and S2 Esprits (2.0Ltr.) in terms of speed and handling. Little mention is to be found of this as you can imagine the negative connotation of having one's Top of the Line 2-seater outpaced by a +2 sedan. However, the same circumstance surrounded the Elan+2 in so far as it generally outperformed it's 2-seat Elan sibling as well. Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 1st July 18:28
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 1st July 18:29
So the inline-4 engines found in SE's to the S4S's were Type 907? So each year they just beefed it up by boring it out and other things?
Essentially, the inline-4 found in SE's and later, did Lotus create them like they created the V8? Or they were sourced by Jensen? GM? Rover? I'm just confused because I wish I knew more of who was who back then and what was what in the history of the car. I need to get a book. Recommendations anyone>
Essentially, the inline-4 found in SE's and later, did Lotus create them like they created the V8? Or they were sourced by Jensen? GM? Rover? I'm just confused because I wish I knew more of who was who back then and what was what in the history of the car. I need to get a book. Recommendations anyone>
As I said, William Taylors book has some very well researched and detailed information of every Lotus Type ever produced - name, engine, power, induction system, date, how many were produced etc etc. Every type number has a double page spread with photos. And yes, he does mention the Jensen Healy connection. But as I said, the first Esprit engine was based on the slant 4 Vauxhall unit and was called the 907. It was bored out to 2174cc for the S3 and all subsequent blown 4 cylinder engines. This is known as the 910. The 912 in the GT3 was 2.0L - it was used in all Esprit exported to Italy where anything over 2.0L attracts a major tax hike. So all inline 4s that went to Italy were 2.0L 912's, even when the RoW were getting the 2.2L 910. The 918 V8 is of course Lotus' own clean sheet design, but building on the aborted M70 project. Back then they even built prototype V12's - rumour has it they fitted it transversly(!!!) into a modded Esprit. Apparently it was wider than a ferrari Testarossa.
Taylors book has been through Series One and Series Two versions. Series Three is now out. I have many Lotus books - this is by far the most definitive and well produced edition I have. If you like I'll try to scan the relevant pages in and post them here. Check it out here:
[url]www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDetail_01.php?Manufacturer=Lotus&Productid=2[/url]
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:49
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:55
Taylors book has been through Series One and Series Two versions. Series Three is now out. I have many Lotus books - this is by far the most definitive and well produced edition I have. If you like I'll try to scan the relevant pages in and post them here. Check it out here:
[url]www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDetail_01.php?Manufacturer=Lotus&Productid=2[/url]
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:49
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:55
hedgerley said:
As I said, William Taylors book has some very well researched and detailed information of every Lotus Type ever produced - name, engine, power, induction system, date, how many were produced etc etc. Every type number has a double page spread with photos. And yes, he does mention the Jensen Healy connection. But as I said, the first Esprit engine was based on the slant 4 Vauxhall unit and was called the 907. It was bored out to 2174cc for the S3 and all subsequent blown 4 cylinder engines. This is known as the 910. The 912 in the GT3 was 2.0L - it was used in all Esprit exported to Italy where anything over 2.0L attracts a major tax hike. So all inline 4s that went to Italy were 2.0L 912's, even when the RoW were getting the 2.2L 910. The 918 V8 is of course Lotus' own clean sheet design, but building on the aborted M70 project. Back then they even built prototype V12's - rumour has it they fitted it transversly(!!!) into a modded Esprit. Apparently it was wider than a ferrari Testarossa.
Taylors book has been through Series One and Series Two versions. Series Three is now out. I have many Lotus books - this is by far the most definitive and well produced edition I have. If you like I'll try to scan the relevant pages in and post them here. Check it out here:
[url]www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDetail_01.php?Manufacturer=Lotus&Productid=2[/url]
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:49
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:55
Wow, its hard to imagine a car wider than a Testarossa LOL
I will buy the book, even though it is quite a high price tag for a book. I dont want to have you scan the pages in. But thanks!
hedgerley said:
As I said, William Taylors book has some very well researched and detailed information of every Lotus Type ever produced - name, engine, power, induction system, date, how many were produced etc etc. Every type number has a double page spread with photos. And yes, he does mention the Jensen Healy connection. But as I said, the first Esprit engine was based on the slant 4 Vauxhall unit and was called the 907. It was bored out to 2174cc for the S3 and all subsequent blown 4 cylinder engines. This is known as the 910. The 912 in the GT3 was 2.0L - it was used in all Esprit exported to Italy where anything over 2.0L attracts a major tax hike. So all inline 4s that went to Italy were 2.0L 912's, even when the RoW were getting the 2.2L 910. The 918 V8 is of course Lotus' own clean sheet design, but building on the aborted M70 project. Back then they even built prototype V12's - rumour has it they fitted it transversly(!!!) into a modded Esprit. Apparently it was wider than a ferrari Testarossa.
Taylors book has been through Series One and Series Two versions. Series Three is now out. I have many Lotus books - this is by far the most definitive and well produced edition I have. If you like I'll try to scan the relevant pages in and post them here. Check it out here:
[url]www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDetail_01.php?Manufacturer=Lotus&Productid=2[/url]
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:49
>> Edited by hedgerley on Thursday 1st July 20:55
Hi,
I'm not disputing you or the book. What I am saying is that the Jensen Healey engine is a Lotus 907 engine sourced directly from Lotus. It was used several years before Lotus installed this same engine in the Elite.
And, with over 11,000 Jensen's being produced, I would venture to say that the original 2.0Ltr. 907 Lotus engine saw more duty in the Jensen Healey than all the Elites, Eclats, S1 & S2 Esprits combined, or at least very close to it. It would seem that this is a significant fact to have been left out of the book, or merely mentioned as an aside.
The only difference between the JH 907 and the original Lotus applied 907 is that the valve covers on the JH were recast to say 'Jensen Healey', other than that, all parts and specs are identical. We have several JH owners in our Local Lotus Club - The Lotus-Eaters, and I have worked on their, as well as other, JH 907's. Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
Not sure what your beef is Jim? I don't think I contradicted you. LotusACBC was asking about the engine in the Esprit, thats the info I gave. And yes LotusACBC, the 907 was originally developed for and supplied to Jensen Healy by Lotus. From Taylors book "Originally specified for the Jensen Healy in 1971 (and later for its rarer sports estate sister, the Jensen GT)"
Its said that the cashflow the deal generated was the only thing that kept Lotus going at the time.
Its said that the cashflow the deal generated was the only thing that kept Lotus going at the time.
hedgerley said:
Not sure what your beef is Jim? I don't think I contradicted you. LotusACBC was asking about the engine in the Esprit, thats the info I gave. And yes LotusACBC, the 907 was originally developed for and supplied to Jensen Healy by Lotus. From Taylors book "Originally specified for the Jensen Healy in 1971 (and later for its rarer sports estate sister, the Jensen GT)"
Its said that the cashflow the deal generated was the only thing that kept Lotus going at the time.
Hey,
No Beef at all!
But, I believe the question was regarding the 907 engine and it's history. To not mention the Jensen Healey connection gives an incomplete and possibly slanted history.
I think it was fortunate JH came to the rescue so to speak. Without the significant sales to them by Lotus, the Esprit may never have existed and Lotus would have been relegated as a footnote along with Bugotti, Riley, Elva and a host of others.
Besides, 11,000 examples equates to a lot of Beta Testing before having to slap their own name on it. Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
My two penneth....
The original J-H used a ROOTES Group (later taken over by Chrysler) gearbox, not a Ford. Then they changed to a 5-speed, whose origins escape me.
The 907 used a totally Lotus designed cylinder head (rumoured to have strong similarities to the Cosworth DFV F1 engine). A Vauxhall (GM) block was used as a development mule for the head because it had similar bore spacing and bore/stoke charactaristics as the proposed Lotus block. Lotus eventually designed and built their own block which bore little similarity to the Vauxhall item.
I'm somewhat surprised to see the GT3 engine referred to as a 912. The GT3 has a chargecooled 4 cyl turbo engine with capacity reduced to 2 litres. As far as I am aware, all 4-cyl turbos are type 910, with it's much stronger block. The 912 was always a N/A 2.2 engine.
One more thing, the 2.2 engine was first fitted in the S2 Esprit, not the S3, and the current Eclat/Elite, resulting in the S2.2 version of all three.
Paul.
(Dons tin hat)
PS Having owned an Elan +2 S130/5, and had a friend who owned a two seater Elan, it's nonsense to say to say the +2 outperformed the smaller car. Some had the opinion that it cornered slightly better than the Elan because of it's greater track, but you had to be a damned good driver driving at the limit to notice it
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Friday 2nd July 11:38
The original J-H used a ROOTES Group (later taken over by Chrysler) gearbox, not a Ford. Then they changed to a 5-speed, whose origins escape me.
The 907 used a totally Lotus designed cylinder head (rumoured to have strong similarities to the Cosworth DFV F1 engine). A Vauxhall (GM) block was used as a development mule for the head because it had similar bore spacing and bore/stoke charactaristics as the proposed Lotus block. Lotus eventually designed and built their own block which bore little similarity to the Vauxhall item.
I'm somewhat surprised to see the GT3 engine referred to as a 912. The GT3 has a chargecooled 4 cyl turbo engine with capacity reduced to 2 litres. As far as I am aware, all 4-cyl turbos are type 910, with it's much stronger block. The 912 was always a N/A 2.2 engine.
One more thing, the 2.2 engine was first fitted in the S2 Esprit, not the S3, and the current Eclat/Elite, resulting in the S2.2 version of all three.
Paul.
(Dons tin hat)
PS Having owned an Elan +2 S130/5, and had a friend who owned a two seater Elan, it's nonsense to say to say the +2 outperformed the smaller car. Some had the opinion that it cornered slightly better than the Elan because of it's greater track, but you had to be a damned good driver driving at the limit to notice it
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Friday 2nd July 11:38
B16 RFF said:
I'm somewhat surprised to see the GT3 engine referred to as a 912. The GT3 has a chargecooled 4 cyl turbo engine with capacity reduced to 2 litres. As far as I am aware, all 4-cyl turbos are type 910, with it's much stronger block. The 912 was always a N/A 2.2 engine.
Probably because the GT3 engine is referred to as the 920, not 912.
Cheers,
Sanj
sanj said:
B16 RFF said:
I'm somewhat surprised to see the GT3 engine referred to as a 912. The GT3 has a chargecooled 4 cyl turbo engine with capacity reduced to 2 litres. As far as I am aware, all 4-cyl turbos are type 910, with it's much stronger block. The 912 was always a N/A 2.2 engine.
Probably because the GT3 engine is referred to as the 920, not 912.
Cheers,
Sanj
Aha, thanks for clearing that up. It's logical that it should be given a new number.
Cheers,
Paul
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Friday 2nd July 14:01
Andrew Noakes said:
B16 RFF said:
The original J-H used a ROOTES Group (later taken over by Chrysler) gearbox, not a Ford. Then they changed to a 5-speed, whose origins escape me.
ZF, IIRC.
Sorry, I'm getting my timelines a bit confused. Chrysler took over Rootes about 1967, I believe. So technically, it was a Chrysler 'box. This box was available with Laycock overdrive, which I believe was used in the J-H.
It is said that the warranty claims on the 907 engine were mainly responsible for the demise of J-H. Apparently it would dump all it's oil at high revs when the o-ring seal between the head and the cam carriers let go. Needless to say, this arrangement was not used in Lotus applications.
Paul.
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Friday 2nd July 13:58
B16 RFF said:
Chrysler took over Rootes about 1967, I believe. So technically, it was a Chrysler 'box. This box was available with Laycock overdrive, which I believe was used in the J-H.
As I understand it the 4-speed box was available with overdrive, but the later J-H had a 5-speed box - it was a Getrag, by the way, not a ZF like I said earlier.
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