U.S. '97 V8 Esprit - Gear Changing Issues at Temp
Discussion
Long time reader....1st time poster. Folks posting and responding have helped me many times before, so thanks to all!
Here is my issue:
I have a '97 Esprit V8 that doesn't like to shift after the car has been active for about 15 minutes. When run semi-hard, gear changing is just about impossible.
I used to own a '90 SE, and it feels much like the usual red hose issue, however, the Lotus dealer who does the regular work on the car does not believe that changing out the stock hose will do anything.
I have heard from some V8 owners that this hose needs to be replaced - and from others I've heard it was fine, which in this case means there is a bigger issue.
If it helps, I just rolled 6,060 on the odometer this afternoon and the car is treated very well - no issues at all - great car.
Thanks so such for your help!
Jason
Indianapolis, Indiana
Yellow '97 Esprit (w/ Lotus 450hp chip, BOVs, intercoolers, and straight pipes)
Black '93 Nissan 300ZX TT (stock)
Red '93 RX-7 R1 (stock)
Green '96 BMW 328i (stock)
Sliver '94 Nissan Altima (gets the groceries and loves snow)
Here is my issue:
I have a '97 Esprit V8 that doesn't like to shift after the car has been active for about 15 minutes. When run semi-hard, gear changing is just about impossible.
I used to own a '90 SE, and it feels much like the usual red hose issue, however, the Lotus dealer who does the regular work on the car does not believe that changing out the stock hose will do anything.
I have heard from some V8 owners that this hose needs to be replaced - and from others I've heard it was fine, which in this case means there is a bigger issue.
If it helps, I just rolled 6,060 on the odometer this afternoon and the car is treated very well - no issues at all - great car.
Thanks so such for your help!
Jason
Indianapolis, Indiana
Yellow '97 Esprit (w/ Lotus 450hp chip, BOVs, intercoolers, and straight pipes)
Black '93 Nissan 300ZX TT (stock)
Red '93 RX-7 R1 (stock)
Green '96 BMW 328i (stock)
Sliver '94 Nissan Altima (gets the groceries and loves snow)
Jason...
Didn't realize Lotus made a 450hp chip. Is it red or black?
Might be time for a gear oil change. With only 6000 miles on the clock, hmmmmm, I dunno. Do you know, for a fact, whether or not your car had the twin plate clutch update auhtorized by Lotus USA? I'd call Clyde with your VIN to check it out...
ErnestM
Didn't realize Lotus made a 450hp chip. Is it red or black?
Might be time for a gear oil change. With only 6000 miles on the clock, hmmmmm, I dunno. Do you know, for a fact, whether or not your car had the twin plate clutch update auhtorized by Lotus USA? I'd call Clyde with your VIN to check it out...
ErnestM
If it is not the hose then it might not be releasing all the way when the clutch heats up. try bleed the system first, then go for the hose, hard to believe it is the fluid but check the level anyways. Some of the other guys can give advice on the tranny never had trouble with mine. It doesn't pop out of gear does it?
Jason,
Mileage doesn't mean much in many cases. While I can not say for certain (on the 1997 MY) but at least on the 1999 and later V8 cars, there is NO red hose for the clutch line. It is a steel line from the master all the way to the rear where the slave is. There is a short flexible coupling line which is similar to a brake line so I don't think that's it.
I would do the following first: Bleed the clutch line to ensure that no air is trapped in the line (and that the fluid is fresh). Next, check the clutch pedal adjustment, both rest position and travel amount as per the manual. Third, replace the gearbox fluid... if you can find the Castrol TAF-X, great, if not use Mobil SHC 630.
If none of the above help, I would suspect a bad clutch. There are some twin-plate units out there that stick (or drag) to the point where shifting becomes very difficult. I know as I've got one! If you have certain times when getting the car out of gear (from rest) is hard, try this: turn the engine off (car still in gear and clutch fully depressed). If the shifter freely allows selection to neutral, you just might have... a sticky clutch. Same for getting it into gear at times.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Mileage doesn't mean much in many cases. While I can not say for certain (on the 1997 MY) but at least on the 1999 and later V8 cars, there is NO red hose for the clutch line. It is a steel line from the master all the way to the rear where the slave is. There is a short flexible coupling line which is similar to a brake line so I don't think that's it.
I would do the following first: Bleed the clutch line to ensure that no air is trapped in the line (and that the fluid is fresh). Next, check the clutch pedal adjustment, both rest position and travel amount as per the manual. Third, replace the gearbox fluid... if you can find the Castrol TAF-X, great, if not use Mobil SHC 630.
If none of the above help, I would suspect a bad clutch. There are some twin-plate units out there that stick (or drag) to the point where shifting becomes very difficult. I know as I've got one! If you have certain times when getting the car out of gear (from rest) is hard, try this: turn the engine off (car still in gear and clutch fully depressed). If the shifter freely allows selection to neutral, you just might have... a sticky clutch. Same for getting it into gear at times.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Thanks for everyone's input so far. Here are the responses to your questions. Hope this helps.
1. The chip is red I believe.
2. Gear oil has been changed twice since I've had the car - Lotus spec.
3. The clutch update was done.
4. Dealer bled the line, no air.
5. Does not pop out of gear - just hard to get it out of gear and VERY hard to get it back into any gear.
Next time the car is at the dealer, I will have the line changed.
Any other thoughts? This one is kind hard to figure out. Shifts like a champ when cool.
1. The chip is red I believe.
2. Gear oil has been changed twice since I've had the car - Lotus spec.
3. The clutch update was done.
4. Dealer bled the line, no air.
5. Does not pop out of gear - just hard to get it out of gear and VERY hard to get it back into any gear.
Next time the car is at the dealer, I will have the line changed.
Any other thoughts? This one is kind hard to figure out. Shifts like a champ when cool.
KM:
Thanks so much for your response!
Yeah, from what I understand from the dealer, there is no red hose on the V8s (including the '97) - that's why I didn't know what the issue could be.
The line was bled and the gear fluid was changed - no results.
I'll try that step you mentioned this weekend and see what happens. When the car goes back to the dealer, I'll have them check the rest position, travel, and the clutch.
Thanks again!
- Jason
Thanks so much for your response!
Yeah, from what I understand from the dealer, there is no red hose on the V8s (including the '97) - that's why I didn't know what the issue could be.
The line was bled and the gear fluid was changed - no results.
I'll try that step you mentioned this weekend and see what happens. When the car goes back to the dealer, I'll have them check the rest position, travel, and the clutch.
Thanks again!
- Jason
By the way...
Has your clutch engagement changed? Does it seem to be engaging earlier?
When this happened to mine it was about time for a new clutch. The only reason I mention this is because if you have that extra power and drive "semi-hard" you may be puting extra wear on the clutch. If you have the opportunity I would have somebody check out your synchros as well...
ErnestM
Has your clutch engagement changed? Does it seem to be engaging earlier?
When this happened to mine it was about time for a new clutch. The only reason I mention this is because if you have that extra power and drive "semi-hard" you may be puting extra wear on the clutch. If you have the opportunity I would have somebody check out your synchros as well...
ErnestM
In general, you should not feel a difference in engagement/disengagement over the life of the clutch as it is self-adjusting and actually pushes fluid back into the resevoir as it wears. Ensuring that the pedal rest position and stop are properly adjusted are the only adjustments on the V8.
Checking for synchro wear is easiest done by inspecting the gearbox lube when you change it. In my case, where the defective clutch has worn two gearboxes, you can easily see the synchro masterial (brass dust) in the gearlube in as little as 3000 miles. Switching to the Mobil SHC 630 lube has greatly minimized this despite the bad clutch.
A side note: Quaife (I have their ATB diff and will be installing it soon) do NOT recommend Redline gear lubes for use with their ATB diffs. Apparently the Redline products won't provide adequate lubrication for the diff internals. Yet another reason to try and source the Castrol TAF-X or the Mobil SHC 630.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Checking for synchro wear is easiest done by inspecting the gearbox lube when you change it. In my case, where the defective clutch has worn two gearboxes, you can easily see the synchro masterial (brass dust) in the gearlube in as little as 3000 miles. Switching to the Mobil SHC 630 lube has greatly minimized this despite the bad clutch.
A side note: Quaife (I have their ATB diff and will be installing it soon) do NOT recommend Redline gear lubes for use with their ATB diffs. Apparently the Redline products won't provide adequate lubrication for the diff internals. Yet another reason to try and source the Castrol TAF-X or the Mobil SHC 630.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
kmaier said:
In general, you should not feel a difference in engagement/disengagement over the life of the clutch as it is self-adjusting and actually pushes fluid back into the resevoir as it wears. Ensuring that the pedal rest position and stop are properly adjusted are the only adjustments on the V8.
Hmmmm. Mine just felt different when the clutch was well worn. It also seemed much more "on/off". In other words it was either engaged or disengaged, there did not seem to be much middle ground.
Of course it could have just been my telepathic symbiotic link with the car...
ErnestM
Hi guys
I'll defer to the much greater skills of the posters above but I recently had similar problems (some slipping on high torque acceleration and my arm muscles getting much stronger from difficult gearchange at times). The dealer (Peter Smith Sports Cars) was looking at two areas...one whether to replace the clutch plates and the other was to do with the way the gear selection was supported by some sort of rocker type thing which lives over the top fo the exhaust box. Apparently this siezes after a while cos it looses its lubrication in the heat and causes difficult gear engagement/removal.
In the end they did both and I got rid of both problems. I'm sure someone else can describe this much better than I can but hope this might help.
Jim
I'll defer to the much greater skills of the posters above but I recently had similar problems (some slipping on high torque acceleration and my arm muscles getting much stronger from difficult gearchange at times). The dealer (Peter Smith Sports Cars) was looking at two areas...one whether to replace the clutch plates and the other was to do with the way the gear selection was supported by some sort of rocker type thing which lives over the top fo the exhaust box. Apparently this siezes after a while cos it looses its lubrication in the heat and causes difficult gear engagement/removal.
In the end they did both and I got rid of both problems. I'm sure someone else can describe this much better than I can but hope this might help.
Jim
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