Potential Lotus Buyer requesting advice.

[Freshcut]

Well, as the topic suggests I'm looking to purchase my first Esprit and have been interested in getting some information on cars ranging from 1989-1993MY. I've currently had my eye on one in particular that I saw on Autotrader.com and was wondering if anyone here could give me some advice as to what to look for and ask, aside from service history, as well as what potential problems are common during this year range.

I have read through everything on the Esprit Fact File website as well as other resources available on the internet and have a general idea as to what to look for but thought that asking those of you who have experience with previous purchases what you might suggest I should look for, or look out for.

Any additional information anyone here can provide to me would be greatly appreciated.

Blake a.k.a. Freshcut

[th4neuk]

best advice I can give is read the info on www.lotusespritworld.com
That combined with the EFF is a mass of info. You could also ask on the forums when you find a car you might want to look at. One of the owners might be able to tag along.

HTH

Alan Croft
89 Turbo

[Freshcut]

Thanks for the advice Alan. I have also visited that site. As for getting another local owner to tag along I would definately like that. The car is located in the LA area here in Southern California and I imagine there are at least a couple guys who would be willing to tag along to help me evaluate this car.

I also understand that this model year range incorporated a lot of GM components as far as the injection system goes, and was curious what other components came from GM (ignition, electrical, etc).

Blake

[feffman]

Blake:

From a personal viewpoint, and I've owned five(5) Esprit, buy one that has the GM Delco injection and ignition system. These are generally the 1989 and newer models. The SE from 1989 1/2 to 1993 1/2 is probably the best bang for the money.

I know of a VERY nice red 1989 for sale in Colorado. Contact Bob Metz at [e-mail] or call him at [phone].

Good luck!

Mark Pfeffer

[Freshcut]

I had read the same thing about the GM engine management system and have had my eye on a '90 SE. This is why I was asking around to get some sort of idea as to if this would be a good candidate for a first time buyer. I'll need to get in touch with the seller for additional details but from what I've read the vehicle is being sold by the original owner which tends to be a plus in my book as a "lemon" would not likely have been owned by the same person for this many years. The other plus is that it's only located about 150 miles from here making it very easy for me to check out more than once if the need to do so should arise. In the meantime I appreciate everyones advice and will get the details I seek from the owner and see if anyone here might be willing to tag along with me to check out the car.

Blake

[cnh1990]

There is a very large LA club with many good Lotus people in your area.

Hopefully if you are going 90 SE it is an earlier one without the ABS.

Calvin

[solar]

you can find the exact esprit you are looking for, if your pricing is right and you wait.

I had to look for 4 months before finding my black s4s

[Freshcut]

I'm still waiting to hear from the seller for additional details on the car however the brief listing he has shown states that it's a '90 turbo esprit, fully loaded, showroom condition, 32K original owner pearl white with blue interior. It doesn't specifically say SE, but looking at the pic there is a wing along with the more squared holes and two additional openings for the oil coolers, however due to lack of picture quality I can't see the exhaust openings for the oil coolers so it may not be an SE, though everything else seems to suggest so.

I figured being the LA area that there definately would be quite a Lotus club which would likely have someone willing to assist me.

As for pricing I've been looking around casually for the last year or two and have a general idea as to what goes for what and at $22K this seems to be about average. As for ABS, I will agree that I'd like to avoid that (more to go wrong) but I doubt I'd use that as a reason not to get this particular car. In fact, the ABS might even help the insurance go down a bit.

Blake

[cnh1990]

All fed/USA 90's cars were the SE version.

I would not pass up a good deal because the car had ABS, but I would put in a way to disable it under certain conditions or you may end up mowing the grass on the shoulder in those road conditions.

Calvin

[Freshcut]

Finally got a reply from the seller. Aside from a bit of lacking information in the email I have since learned that at 32K on the engine it's still using the original timing belt which leads me to believe that it didn't receive the "C" service which I believe is scheduled to occur at 25K. The seller sent me his phone number to contact him directly which I plan to do so, however in the meantime if I should decide to check the car out I would like to know if anyone would be interested in tagging along to give me a little assistance in determining if this is a car I would like to consider or if my money would be better spent elsewhere. Again, it's located in the LA area so if anyone is willing to tag along I would greatly appreciate it.


Blake

[njcpa]

FYI, I spoke with Phil the owner the other day. He said over the phone he was dropping the price to cover the cost of the c service - so it would be down to $17,000. I told him if he asks $16,000 he'd get a lot of offers and might sell it for more than if he asks $17,000 and get's negotiated down. Sounded like a deal.

[Freshcut]

He did mention that price in his email which shocked me since he was asking $5K less than in his ad. I'm still interested, however I must admit now that I realize it's a bit overdue for the "C" service it makes me wonder what other maintainance has been neglected. I suppose if I find someone knowledgable to assist me in checking the car out I'd feel more comfortable in making an offer.

If you are familiar with the vehicle I would like to get your input on the overall condition. Feel free to e-mail me @ [e-mail] if you would rather send an email than post to the forum.

Blake

[autocross7]

My only advice is to not let the "gotta have it" gremlins into your head. I ended up with an 88'MY. The Bosch fuel system did not bother me as everything and everyone I could talk to that knew about them said that they were "almost bullit proof". I have known people with BMWs that have this type of system and never complained... no intercooler meant less power, but it also meant no broken impeller bits either. Point: there are positive and negatives to everything. In the end, the service history was good, the price was good, and the seller was very hounest about what was prob. going to be an issue in the comming months. AND, for whatever reason, I wanted the first year Stevens Esprit. There is no way to be 100% sure of a thing in my book, but you can be close.

Drive topless!!!
Cameron

[Freshcut]

I fully agree with you Cameron and I am familiar with Bosch injection as my parents have an '86 BMW with Bosch components and yes they are VERY bulletproof considering the car has over 300K and ended up needing new injectors after about 270K due to one leaking.

As for getting the "gotta have it" gremlin as you put it, I wouldn't say I have that just yet since I have to wonder what lack of maintainance this particular vehicle has had considering it's around 7K overdue for a timing belt. Almost makes me wonder if there are more serious problems lurking around that have not been addressed. This is why I suggested feeling more comfortable having someone knowledgable to tag along. As for making any offers on the car, that of course will be based entirely on how comfortable I am with the service history and the suggestions made by whoever decides to tag along.

I appreciate your input as well as the input from everyone who has replied.

Blake

[lotusguy]

Freshcut said:

I fully agree with you Cameron and I am familiar with Bosch injection as my parents have an '86 BMW with Bosch components and yes they are VERY bulletproof considering the car has over 300K and ended up needing new injectors after about 270K due to one leaking. As for getting the "gotta have it" gremlin as you put it, I wouldn't say I have that just yet since I have to wonder what lack of maintainance this particular vehicle has had considering it's around 7K overdue for a timing belt. Almost makes me wonder if there are more serious problems lurking around that have not been addressed. This is why I suggested feeling more comfortable having someone knowledgable to tag along. As for making any offers on the car, that of course will be based entirely on how comfortable I am with the service history and the suggestions made by whoever decides to tag along. I appreciate your input as well as the input from everyone who has replied. Blake

Blake,

You are buying a Used car, expecting it to be any less worn than the mileage indicated is unrealistic.

The future of the car will be up to you and how well you want/are able to maintain it.

Bosche K-jetronic is a very fine, but often misunderstood (and consequently poorly maintained), system. It has been manufactured into literally millions of cars, covering perhaps over a billion successful miles. It has been used on evrything from Ferraris, Mercedes, Porches, BMWs, Volvos even 700,000 Datsun Z cars alone. Get to know it (it's really not that complicated), get the appropriate diagnostic tools (pressure gauge, duty cycle meter etc.) and you'll have no problems with it at all.

Whichever car you choose, start from Day 1 to check, correct and document every system of the car. Expect the unexpected until you have given the car a thorough going over. Also, plan on heavier maintenance costs initially. This is due to the 'I might as well while I'm in there" syndrome.

If for instance you are doing the timing belt, replace 'V' belts, hoses, tensioner bearing, front main seal etc. while you're at it as these are just a couple more steps and the restricted access etc. makes it worthwhile since you're more than halfway there just doing the timing belt anyway. If the belt is overdue, valve adjustment should also be checked at the same time. Hope this helps. Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE

[Freshcut]

I agree fully with you on your points mentioned Jim and yes, I did plan to give the car as close to a thourough of an inspection as possible when I acquire it. I only mentioned my concern based on how overdue the "C" service is. Fortunately being an accomplished mechanic I have no hesitation performing any work on the car myself and would view the opportunity as a chance to familiarize myself enough to be able to perform as much maintainance as possible. I also have to realize that due to lack of maintainance a car with 10K can actually have more wear visible than one with 50K that has received excellent maintainance. Since I have not yet seen the car in person I can't suggest that it's had any excessive lack of maintainance. I suppose in my last post I was only thinking out loud however I should consider myself fortunate that the owner at least did point out that the timing belt has yet to be replaced as a less honest seller may have neglected to mention that.

Blake

[f1ace]

Freshcut, Phil isn't being a "good seller", he's admitting it after I and others beat him up on the issue previously. I too was interested in that car but became fed up with his lack of disclosure.

EXAMPLE:
Q:Where was the car serviced?
A:At a local Lotus mechanic.
I checked with the Lotus dealer in Thousand Oaks several times and they don't even know the car. Never seen it. I tried asking specifically for his mechanic's name...no success. I asked for the serial number...no success. Asked for a copy of his last tune up bill...no success. I got the same abrupt answers he thinks are good enough for you too, sounds like.

My advice? Look at the car for yourself, then decide if you wanna come back with a "friend". On the first visit, jot down the serial number, I'd be glad to run it through CARFAX for you, free. I'm looking at an S4s instead. Or,take it to a mechanic, Phil sounded like he'd allow that.

Good luck. It sounds like Phil's attitude just keeps costing him money. Justice I say.

Wes

[Freshcut]

It would appear that you got more out of Phil than I did. In his email reply he listed 3 bullet points to the several questions I asked they were as follows;
1. Selling the car due to lack of garage space.
2. I'm the original owner and timing belt has not been changed. (I didn't even asked about the belt specifically, only the last date reason and location of service) and finally,
3. the price is $17,000.

Not even a VIN number or reason as to why he didn't include it in the email as requested to run a history report. I suppose I will continue to keep my eyes open for something else in that general price range and hopefully it will be a seller that is willing to disclose as much information as possible. I must admit however that if this Phil guy was really serious about selling, as he seems to suggest by stating he needs the garage space, he might consider giving as much information about the product he's trying to sell. Again, I appreciate all the input I received and hopefully sometime in the near future I'll find someone willing to honestly disclose information rather than trying to dodge questions.

Blake

[f1ace]

Blake, I hope you are then as lucky to find a nice seller as I was. My current seller is so very nice, and up front it makes the whole process enjoyable. Even though I still like Phil's car, perhaps more, it looks like he's cruisin' for a bruisin, someone else's bruisin' that is.

I don't know if you're far from Phil's place, but I would still pay it a visit and run the numbers and see what comes up. But as I say, the belts is one thing, OK so he let it slide, but at least give me a receipt showing the last tune up. Just saying "I only drive it 3000mi a year" doesn't cut it. I suspect he really doesn't know anything about cars except to keep them polished. Then you're supposed to be WOWed by that. Are you far from him?

Wes

[lotusguy]

Hi,

The very fact that you (as well as some others) have any reservations at all about this car is a pretty good indicator that you should probably walk away.

There are too many of them out there to hold your breath and go for it in this instance. It could turn out all fine and good, but why take the chance?

BTW, if you like a bit of nostalgia, I know a very upfront 'G' car owner with a near pristine example of a Turbo Esprit complete w/ all manuals, receipts and the like. Several nationally known Lotus experts, including Calvin have had wrench time on this car and there just aren't many like it left in this condition... Happy Motoring!... Jim'85TE



>> Edited by lotusguy on Friday 5th March 17:08