Finding a good Esprit is too hard.
Discussion
When I do a search for Esprits for sale on a US Web site I come up with around 40. When I search for Ferrari's I come up with 250. Finding a good deal on an Esprit is getting frustrating that I'm almost ready to just get a 328 or 348 (more money, yes) and be done with it. At least I know there will be almost no depreciation. I would miss the Esprit's better driving though.
One reasonable deal has a 1990 available with 55,000 mi's. Isn't that getting up there?
I don't know. Comments?
Wes
>>> Edited by f1ace on Thursday 11th March 16:16
One reasonable deal has a 1990 available with 55,000 mi's. Isn't that getting up there?
I don't know. Comments?
Wes
>>> Edited by f1ace on Thursday 11th March 16:16
f1ace said:
When I do a search for Esprits for sale on a US Web site I come up with around 40. When I search for Ferrari's I come up with 250. Finding a good deal on an Esprit is getting frustrating that I'm almost ready to just get a 328 or 348 (more money, yes) and be done with it. At least I know there will be almost no depreciation. I would miss the Esprit's better driving though.
On reasonable deal has a 1990 available with 55,000 mi's. Isn't that getting up there?
I don't know. Comments?
Wes
Hi,
Ferrari manufactures 8,000 cars/year, Lotus - <1,000/year. Ferrari exports 50% of their cars to the US, Lotus <30%, so no surprise that there are more Ferraris available.
Ferraris are at least 4 times more expensive to own than the Lotus and maybe half as reliable. Generally a slight edge to Lotus in performance.
Very few Ferraris appreciate in value, usually the 12 cylinder models and not the two you mention. True, depreciation on a Ferrari is much less linear, but more determined by mileage. So, if you want to retain resale value, don't drive your Ferrari.
Lotus depeciation is much more linear and less mileage dependant, meaning you don't have to feel bad about actually driving it.
As far as a '95 Lotus w/ 55k mi., the '89+ cars easily go 100k mi. with little trouble so long as they are maintained. Inspect the car, look for good history.
You are lumping the Ferrari and Lotus in the same category. They are very different animals. If you want a Ferrari, get one, it too is a very fine car. If you want a Lotus, wait for the right one, they are not really too hard to find, be patient.
If you are looking for a deal, accept the trade-offs inherent in that line of thinking. Very few pristine examples of either a Ferrari or a Lotus, or anything else for that matter, can be had for a Deal. Just my $0.02. Happy Motoring!... Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 11th March 17:43
). Happy Motoring!... Jim'85TE
Wes:
What Esprit are you looking for? I know of a black 1995 S4s coming on the market in the next week or so that is in impeccable shape with all the service history.
By the way an Esprit with mileage isn't bad as long as the car has been PROPERLY maintained. I had 67K on my 1990 SE when I sold it for my V8. It now has 72K and is still running strong with no rebuild, just good maintenance.
Call me if you'd like to chat!
Mark Pfeffer
(314) 889-0572(Work)
Feffman@Yahoo.com
What Esprit are you looking for? I know of a black 1995 S4s coming on the market in the next week or so that is in impeccable shape with all the service history.
By the way an Esprit with mileage isn't bad as long as the car has been PROPERLY maintained. I had 67K on my 1990 SE when I sold it for my V8. It now has 72K and is still running strong with no rebuild, just good maintenance.
Call me if you'd like to chat!
Mark Pfeffer
(314) 889-0572(Work)
Feffman@Yahoo.com
I suppose what's making things a bit more difficult is I feel certain years don't work with some colors, and other colors are just not good day-to-day colors.
The 90 I mentioned is white. I just LOVE that year in white, but it's a bit obvious for day-to-day use. I'm also not a big black fan, I was pondering a 95 S4s earlier which was black but generally hated the color on that year, for a number of complex reasons. I also don't like white on an S4s either. Plus, I don't think I'd like living with that rear spoiler, how it is in the way of hatch access. Plus, a 95 would go for in the 30's, then head south. I'd rather find something that's settled down already.
Complicated world, isn't it.
Wes
The 90 I mentioned is white. I just LOVE that year in white, but it's a bit obvious for day-to-day use. I'm also not a big black fan, I was pondering a 95 S4s earlier which was black but generally hated the color on that year, for a number of complex reasons. I also don't like white on an S4s either. Plus, I don't think I'd like living with that rear spoiler, how it is in the way of hatch access. Plus, a 95 would go for in the 30's, then head south. I'd rather find something that's settled down already.
Complicated world, isn't it.
Wes
cnh1990
I've looked EVERYWHERE!
I saw that 93 Esprit which was black go for $20g, that would have worked. I prefer 1990-1993. Found a green one on a club web site, owner didn't reply. That would have been interesting, but I guess I prefer red.
I think I've painted myself into a corner by now.
White is too obvious.
Black can be too subtle.
Red, well I have another car and it's red.
Too bad they limit themselves to 3 colors.
Wes
I've looked EVERYWHERE!
I saw that 93 Esprit which was black go for $20g, that would have worked. I prefer 1990-1993. Found a green one on a club web site, owner didn't reply. That would have been interesting, but I guess I prefer red.
I think I've painted myself into a corner by now.
White is too obvious.
Black can be too subtle.
Red, well I have another car and it's red.
Too bad they limit themselves to 3 colors.
Wes
You might try watching eBay. I don't know where you are, but there are quite a few esprits that show up there. Most you can go look at if you wish.
Although I stopped updating it around the time I got my '83, I had been tracking Esprit prices on eBay for just about two years (and there were more than 200 auctions for Esprits.)
There is a section of my chart on the average winning bid and average milage of various cars (for auctions that actually went for more than the reserve.) You can see my chart at:
www.driestone.net/mechanic/lotus_prices.html
Remember that these are eBay prices and not private sales. I would say you'd be lucky to find a private sale for the same price of an eBay auction.
Although I stopped updating it around the time I got my '83, I had been tracking Esprit prices on eBay for just about two years (and there were more than 200 auctions for Esprits.)
There is a section of my chart on the average winning bid and average milage of various cars (for auctions that actually went for more than the reserve.) You can see my chart at:
www.driestone.net/mechanic/lotus_prices.html
Remember that these are eBay prices and not private sales. I would say you'd be lucky to find a private sale for the same price of an eBay auction.
DrieStone
Fantastic post! Great work! WOW! Colors and everything!
I do watch e-bay, but wonder if I can trust a car offered there. I live in Canada and can hire someone to look at the car but it costs $ every time. I don't want to wait too long though, we have only about a 5 or 6 month summer and if I don't get a car for the whole season then there's no point.
But again, thanks for your help. I will keep a better eye on e-bay.
Wes
Fantastic post! Great work! WOW! Colors and everything!
I do watch e-bay, but wonder if I can trust a car offered there. I live in Canada and can hire someone to look at the car but it costs $ every time. I don't want to wait too long though, we have only about a 5 or 6 month summer and if I don't get a car for the whole season then there's no point.
But again, thanks for your help. I will keep a better eye on e-bay.
Wes
solar said:
i think the demand for quality cars is outstripping the supply, hence the prices should go up...
get em while you can.
ferrari 250's were 10k once!
Hi,
Part of the problem is that everyone wants a pristine example at a bargain basement price. This has the effect of depressing prices, if the seller wants/needs to sell, they are forced to comply.
Esprits may go up in price the next few years due to there now officially being a finite number of them, but even a 10% annual appreciation, (almost unheard of in Car Prices), only ups the price some $1,000-$4,000 over current prices depending on Model year.
The Sports Car market is a defined niche market with a limited number of potential buyers. Currently, this market is Supersaturated due to the post '95 manufacture of so many offferings (Lotus Esprit, Elise/ BMW Z3, M3/ Mazda Miata, RX8/ Porsche 911, Boxster/ MB CLKs and SLs/ Honda 2000,Acura RS, NSX/ Nissan 350Z/ Subaru WRX/ Mits. EVO and Eclipse/ Toyota MR2, Celica/ Jaguar XK8/ Not to mention all the American offerings (whether true sports cars or not, many can't tell or care) as well as many I've failed to mention. Because of this, depreciation on a 2000 model (any model) averages 39% (Sports Car Illustrated April '04). All cars in this category are negatively affected save a very special few and unfortunately, outside the fanatic fringe, Lotus isn't one of these.
I was made a serious offer (Wire the money by the end of that day's business) by a lister of $10,000 for my '85! Any more, and the lister stated he could acquire so many other cars (probably true). This is not even close to what I would part with it for, or it's true worth. I have close to that much in new improvements alone in it. I'd rather give the car to my Brother for he and his two boys to enjoy than sell it for anywhere near that price.
It's gonna be quite some time, if ever, before the market corrects and fairly represents prices again. If you're a seller, it sucks, but it's a haven for the buyer! Now is the time to buy, not to sell. Happy Motoring!... Jim'85TE
Some of thos ebay cars had tainted pasts, others were fine. Many times deals are made off auction and it is a good place for exposure. I know Ed Gomes had a low ebay price but got what he wanted off auction. I would say a better indicator is what it is elling of Auto trader. Hemmings cars seem to list high and ebay on the low side. Auto trader is in the middle and tend to go for those prices.
Calvin
Calvin
Wes,
Do you mind staing your desired price range? (Sorry if you posted it elsewhere, I missed it.) That might help some of us classify where you would find such a beast.
I agree that eBay can be a great source of cars, it's where I got mine, after all....but I also looked at cars all over--dealerships, Collectorcartrader.com, etc....
~Jay in Atlanta
1993.5 Silver Frost Esprit SE
Do you mind staing your desired price range? (Sorry if you posted it elsewhere, I missed it.) That might help some of us classify where you would find such a beast.
I agree that eBay can be a great source of cars, it's where I got mine, after all....but I also looked at cars all over--dealerships, Collectorcartrader.com, etc....
~Jay in Atlanta
1993.5 Silver Frost Esprit SE
Jay,
I'd say up to around $25,000.00 US. That gets me into the Lotuses which should have most of their depreciation behind them. I would prefer to spend $20-23,000.00 on a 90-93, but would consider a 85-87 if it was somewhat less. Thanks for asking.
I mentioned on another page (but it bears repeating) that I want to try an Esprit as my daily driver for a year, and if it's unbearable I don't want to face $5,000.00 in deprectiation just to sell it in the same condition I got it, simply because I paid too much in the first place.
Basically I want YOUR car! It must look awesome in silver. Send me pics if you'd like to F1Ace@aol.com.
Thanks again!
Wes
I'd say up to around $25,000.00 US. That gets me into the Lotuses which should have most of their depreciation behind them. I would prefer to spend $20-23,000.00 on a 90-93, but would consider a 85-87 if it was somewhat less. Thanks for asking.
I mentioned on another page (but it bears repeating) that I want to try an Esprit as my daily driver for a year, and if it's unbearable I don't want to face $5,000.00 in deprectiation just to sell it in the same condition I got it, simply because I paid too much in the first place.
Basically I want YOUR car! It must look awesome in silver. Send me pics if you'd like to F1Ace@aol.com.
Thanks again!
Wes
f1ace said:
Basically I want YOUR car! It must look awesome in silver. Send me pics if you'd like to F1Ace@aol.com.
No way I'm selling (although I'd trade any day of the week for a V8, personal preference).
But I'll definitely send you the pics, thanks for your interest in my baby.
~Jay
f1ace said:
I'd say up to around $25,000.00 US. That gets me into the Lotuses which should have most of their depreciation behind them. I would prefer to spend $20-23,000.00 on a 90-93, but would consider a 85-87 if it was somewhat less.
What about this one (if it's still available)?
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/2/0/66271820.htm
There are a few other nice ones on CollectorCarTrader.com, but this seems like a standout (not knowing anything about the history, owner, etc.).
~Jay
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