Boost Controller or ECU/Chips ???
Discussion
Hello all, Im planning out my next modifications on my vehicle and Im still debating whether I want to aquire a boost controller or a ECU or chipset. Can anyone please let me know what you think the best way to go is (safest and most power). I understand the tranny issues and what not but Im going to go for it anyway. Thanks again !!
AL
AL
Well to be honest Im shooting for 500WHP when all is said and done. So if anyone has a recipe for this Id appreciate the help. I was thinking, RED ECU, Boost Controller for a couple more pounds of flexibility, Blow off valves, and a bigger fuel system should probably do it for power, if not then bigger turbos. Id take care of the tranny later on of course ... 
AL
AL
I'm not a V8 owner but no stranger to building performance motors. 500 rear wheel hp is a strong number, for sure, and I'd certainly be concerned about driveline durability. But, I like power so I won't nay say on any of that. Go for it. Its just machinery, it can all be rebuilt.
I'd imagine that you'd want to use some intake charge cooling of some sort to make this a more easily obtainable goal. Since the V8s are do not use any form of charge cooling then you'll be limited by how much boost you can run, and, especially on warm days, how much boost and thus horsepower.
The T25 (I think if I'm not mistaken on the units) are rather small for the job you're asking them to do, but looking at the compressor maps it seems the ragged edge of what would be managable, especially with no form of chargecooling.
Using a 15% drivetrain loss (which I'm not sure I agree with a flat percentage) then you'd need 575 at the crank, or 165 hp per liter - not inconsiderable. But doable. There are 2.2L Lotus turbo fours making over 175 per liter (and Japanese turbo fours sometimes more) so it is obtainable but I'd think chargecooling a must.
What options are available for V8s and chargecooling? I know that I saw pics of someone who had intercoolers mounted but that was some time ago.
*I use the term chargecooling for any form of cooling down compressed intake air. Technically, intercooling is a cooler between two different compressor stages on multistage compressors with an engine but I don't want folks to split hairs.
>> Edited by rlearp on Friday 7th May 02:30
I'd imagine that you'd want to use some intake charge cooling of some sort to make this a more easily obtainable goal. Since the V8s are do not use any form of charge cooling then you'll be limited by how much boost you can run, and, especially on warm days, how much boost and thus horsepower.
The T25 (I think if I'm not mistaken on the units) are rather small for the job you're asking them to do, but looking at the compressor maps it seems the ragged edge of what would be managable, especially with no form of chargecooling.
Using a 15% drivetrain loss (which I'm not sure I agree with a flat percentage) then you'd need 575 at the crank, or 165 hp per liter - not inconsiderable. But doable. There are 2.2L Lotus turbo fours making over 175 per liter (and Japanese turbo fours sometimes more) so it is obtainable but I'd think chargecooling a must.
What options are available for V8s and chargecooling? I know that I saw pics of someone who had intercoolers mounted but that was some time ago.
*I use the term chargecooling for any form of cooling down compressed intake air. Technically, intercooling is a cooler between two different compressor stages on multistage compressors with an engine but I don't want folks to split hairs.
>> Edited by rlearp on Friday 7th May 02:30
To be honest, Ive been to my performance about some custom intercooling. Hes been mapping some stuff out for me, but so far I dont like anything he has drawn up. Its either to obtrusive or just not within my budget. But he has some stuff in the works right now that I may be able to go ahead with. So yes, I will be intercooling the car ... I just forgot to mention this.
AL
AL
You might look into the charge coolers that came on those turbocharged GM V6's like the Cyclone or something. They are very small and with some custom work, you could probably get it to fit. They are also not very expensive and show up on eBay. Two of those would probably work out well. Then you just need to figure out where to put the radiator for them.
I am not an expert in this area, but Squelch is and you might ask him as well.
Also remember that the more you push any vehicle, the less reliable it gets, and can you live with that?
Dr.Hess
I am not an expert in this area, but Squelch is and you might ask him as well.
Also remember that the more you push any vehicle, the less reliable it gets, and can you live with that?
Dr.Hess
www.extremeesprit.com/
I would get the ECU chip first. Remapping everything it is a good one stop shop for power. If you wish to go further, you got the workings of a great base to step up from.
I would get the ECU chip first. Remapping everything it is a good one stop shop for power. If you wish to go further, you got the workings of a great base to step up from.
Hi Al,
Well, if you want to increase the performance of the V8, start looking basics first, the motor that is. Lotus Engineering has a design point in one of their engineering briefs that show the 918 engine capable of 550 BHP (crank) but not in stock (Esprit) form.
To obtain this power level requires more boost than the standard ECM will yield. This is not a real problem, but the 918 engine is delivered with cast pistons... so be careful about how much you push as you might weaken them and have premature failure. I've heard of some forged mahle pistons but don't have any details.
Next, consider the lack of intercoolers. I've been down the path of doing this and have a very workable design but detailing this is beyond the scope of this reply. Needless to say, to get the dramatic power increase you are looking at will pretty much demand this.
As for the ECM, I would probably get the ECM socketed as per Marcus' PUK website and get the additional chip sets to allow some experimentation.
Next, the turbos.... don't bother with larger ones... remember, you only 3.5 liters of displacement so you're not in a position to drive larger turbos efficiently. You would be better served to have the T25 turbos retrofitted with the Garrett ball-bearing sleeve cartridge which reduces drag by 50% and eliminates the thrust bearings. The new Garrett turbo designation is GT25R.
Exhaust... replace the cats and the exhaust with higher performance units available from either Marcus or Hyper-Flow (which are finalizing them now). Metal cats will be required as the ceramic ones won't hold up that well and they are known to flow poorly.
Finish up with less restrictive air filters. I opted for the ITG Oiled-Foam ProFilter. These will filter fine particles better than the K&N and still have high flow but I highly recommend replacing them (yes, replacing them) every 24K miles.
This will get you about the most power you can reliably expect to get from the V8. The AP Racing twin-plate clutch should be able to cope okay... the gearbox, well, don't count on it.
The input shaft is a two-piece design and has som limits of the amount of torque it can handle before it either twists or snaps. There's not much available in gearbox solutions for the Esprit.
Derek Bell in the UK has an upgrade kit for the UN1 transaxle but note that the current kit also replaces first gear with a straight-cut setup and the clutch spline will not fit the existing clutch. Modifying the replacement single piece input shaft is simply not feasible so you may have problems going much beyond the stock gearbox without significant cost and effort.
Hope this helps and gives you some idea of what you can expect. I would also recommend you upgrade the cooling system as well as you will be generating more heat than the stock system can dissipate.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Well, if you want to increase the performance of the V8, start looking basics first, the motor that is. Lotus Engineering has a design point in one of their engineering briefs that show the 918 engine capable of 550 BHP (crank) but not in stock (Esprit) form.
To obtain this power level requires more boost than the standard ECM will yield. This is not a real problem, but the 918 engine is delivered with cast pistons... so be careful about how much you push as you might weaken them and have premature failure. I've heard of some forged mahle pistons but don't have any details.
Next, consider the lack of intercoolers. I've been down the path of doing this and have a very workable design but detailing this is beyond the scope of this reply. Needless to say, to get the dramatic power increase you are looking at will pretty much demand this.
As for the ECM, I would probably get the ECM socketed as per Marcus' PUK website and get the additional chip sets to allow some experimentation.
Next, the turbos.... don't bother with larger ones... remember, you only 3.5 liters of displacement so you're not in a position to drive larger turbos efficiently. You would be better served to have the T25 turbos retrofitted with the Garrett ball-bearing sleeve cartridge which reduces drag by 50% and eliminates the thrust bearings. The new Garrett turbo designation is GT25R.
Exhaust... replace the cats and the exhaust with higher performance units available from either Marcus or Hyper-Flow (which are finalizing them now). Metal cats will be required as the ceramic ones won't hold up that well and they are known to flow poorly.
Finish up with less restrictive air filters. I opted for the ITG Oiled-Foam ProFilter. These will filter fine particles better than the K&N and still have high flow but I highly recommend replacing them (yes, replacing them) every 24K miles.
This will get you about the most power you can reliably expect to get from the V8. The AP Racing twin-plate clutch should be able to cope okay... the gearbox, well, don't count on it.
The input shaft is a two-piece design and has som limits of the amount of torque it can handle before it either twists or snaps. There's not much available in gearbox solutions for the Esprit.
Derek Bell in the UK has an upgrade kit for the UN1 transaxle but note that the current kit also replaces first gear with a straight-cut setup and the clutch spline will not fit the existing clutch. Modifying the replacement single piece input shaft is simply not feasible so you may have problems going much beyond the stock gearbox without significant cost and effort.
Hope this helps and gives you some idea of what you can expect. I would also recommend you upgrade the cooling system as well as you will be generating more heat than the stock system can dissipate.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Getting the HP is not difficult with the V8 engine. But you don't simply address the tranny later. Simply put, you are going to torch the tranny. And the next one. And the one after that.
There's a reason why Lotus pushed that engine out of the factory do drastically de-tuned. The tranny stinks.
I'm not trying to dissuade you, I'm a mod junky myself. But you really need to be prepared for the costs associated with tranny rebuilds if you want to go for 500 or more at the wheels.
Mike
And KM beat me to it with a better explanation.
>> Edited by madmike on Friday 7th May 05:45
There's a reason why Lotus pushed that engine out of the factory do drastically de-tuned. The tranny stinks.
I'm not trying to dissuade you, I'm a mod junky myself. But you really need to be prepared for the costs associated with tranny rebuilds if you want to go for 500 or more at the wheels.
Mike
And KM beat me to it with a better explanation.
>> Edited by madmike on Friday 7th May 05:45
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