1x Full Suspension Mountain Bike
Discussion
I'v not owned a full suss mountain bike since my Marin quake 9.0 back in 2000, since then I have used hard tail x country mountain bikes with my latest been a 27.5 Scott scale 720 carbon. I love the x country aspect of mountain biking and trying to cover as much ground as possible and really enjoy climbing hills. However lately I find myself yearning for a full suspension mountain bike something like a Scott spark 730, I've started to enjoy the descending aspect more and more but when I go to trail centres for e.g. I feel like a full suss would really benefit me now. My main concern/question is will I notice a massive difference in climbing when using a full suspension with a 1 x 11 or even a 1 x 12 like Sram GX Eagle? I know the 1 x 12 has like a 500% range but in real terms will I miss the climbing ability of my hardtail? I know this probably seems a silly question for somebody that rides a full suss but it's that long since I even had a go on one I worry the suspension 'bob' and the limited gear range on a full suss especially something more enduro based would make me regret selling my hardtail? Any thoughts appreciated
The kinematics and shock set ups on modern FS bikes pretty much eliminates pedal-bob when climbing, and lots of shocks have a full lock out or pro-pedal setting to reduce it further.
FS bikes these days are much slacker in the head angle - which will be the most noticeable difference compared to your HT, the front will 'wander' much more on steep climbs on a slacker bike.
But all in all modern FS bikes are great all rounders - you might not be quite so quick to the top, but you'll come down faster with a bigger grin on your face.
FS bikes these days are much slacker in the head angle - which will be the most noticeable difference compared to your HT, the front will 'wander' much more on steep climbs on a slacker bike.
But all in all modern FS bikes are great all rounders - you might not be quite so quick to the top, but you'll come down faster with a bigger grin on your face.
As has already been said, the pedal bob on a good FS bike is neligeable really and many have a rear lockout if you wanted it.
I have multiple scott scales (900 SL, 35 and 610) and a scott spark. The spark has the combined front and rear suspension control (Lockout - Traction Control -Descend) which is awesome and really does turn it into a really nimble climber and so goes uphill like the hard tails but it is heavier (12kg vs the <10kg of my hardtails).
The gearing on 1x11 is typically set up so the climbing gears slowest are exactly the same as 2x or 3x setups. Its the top end speed that you loose typically. Most 1x11 or 1x12 cover the exact same range of gears but with slightly bigger gaps in the gears.
As with the route i took, get both bikes. A spark (especially a good high end one) is no compromise to a hardtail other than weight.
I have multiple scott scales (900 SL, 35 and 610) and a scott spark. The spark has the combined front and rear suspension control (Lockout - Traction Control -Descend) which is awesome and really does turn it into a really nimble climber and so goes uphill like the hard tails but it is heavier (12kg vs the <10kg of my hardtails).
The gearing on 1x11 is typically set up so the climbing gears slowest are exactly the same as 2x or 3x setups. Its the top end speed that you loose typically. Most 1x11 or 1x12 cover the exact same range of gears but with slightly bigger gaps in the gears.
As with the route i took, get both bikes. A spark (especially a good high end one) is no compromise to a hardtail other than weight.
Edited by BenGismo on Friday 27th October 18:23
Really appreciate the replies, pretty much confirmed my thoughts but nice to hear from people who have actual experience. I don't mind the 'gap' in the gears on 1 x or losing the gears at the top end, as long as steep climbs I currently climb don't suddenly become out of reach by switching to a FS. The lockout is probably the main reason I keep gravitating towards a Scott as they are the main manufacturer to offer this feature but that's also why i'd need/want a 1 x as with a dropper post your bars would be pretty cluttered. Now just need to keep saving and as pointed out would prefer to keep my HT for best of both worlds.
Before this week I'd only ever ridden 2x or 3x systems, been riding a couple of 1x bikes with 32t chain rings, 27.5 wheels and 10/11-42 cassettes this week.
It didn't stop me spinning up a few steep climbs when my legs were tired, eagle with its 10-50 cassette would be even better.
And at the other end there was plenty of speed to get going on fast stuff. I'd be more than happy with a 1x11/12 set up on my next bike, don't see the need for any more, and it makes it so much simpler not having to shift the front chain ring.
It didn't stop me spinning up a few steep climbs when my legs were tired, eagle with its 10-50 cassette would be even better.
And at the other end there was plenty of speed to get going on fast stuff. I'd be more than happy with a 1x11/12 set up on my next bike, don't see the need for any more, and it makes it so much simpler not having to shift the front chain ring.
Edited by Tall_Paul on Sunday 29th October 00:06
There won't be much detriment in the climbing ability of the bike by going FS and/or 1x. Actually, FS will give you better traction (on the right tyre).
Having said that, hardtails have also massively evolved. You can buy an aggro hardtail with 2.4 high volume tyres (Boost or not), 160mm forks and aggressive geo that will be a superb all-rounder and keep the simplicity, affordability, reduced maintenance, lightness and playfulness of a rigid frame without being particularly slow dh.
I really had a lot of fun on the blues and reds at BPW this year on such a bike and wasn't particularly left behind nor under-biked.
Look at the Sonder Transmitter, Bird Zero, Commencal Meta HT am, Transition TransAM, NS Bikes Eccentric, Cotic BFe etc...
In fact, I see more and more hardtails in gnar(ish) places like Peaslake etc...
Having said that, hardtails have also massively evolved. You can buy an aggro hardtail with 2.4 high volume tyres (Boost or not), 160mm forks and aggressive geo that will be a superb all-rounder and keep the simplicity, affordability, reduced maintenance, lightness and playfulness of a rigid frame without being particularly slow dh.
I really had a lot of fun on the blues and reds at BPW this year on such a bike and wasn't particularly left behind nor under-biked.
Look at the Sonder Transmitter, Bird Zero, Commencal Meta HT am, Transition TransAM, NS Bikes Eccentric, Cotic BFe etc...
In fact, I see more and more hardtails in gnar(ish) places like Peaslake etc...
Thanks again for replying, all good info. I agree with the simpler 1 x comment even though it not hard using a front derailleur its so much simpler and easier. It may of also helped earlier this year when I came off and the chainring buried itself in my calf on my 3 x 10 set-up leaving me needing stitches, weirdly if the chain had been wrapped around like on a 1 x it may not have been able to go so deep 
As for mentioning the HT options, it is amazing how much the geometry can effect the ride, I think this is the main issue and if I had something a bit slacker it may be all the bike I need. I'll check them models out thanks. Only thing is I really want to start doing some relaxed enduro events like the Naughty Northumbrian I recently went too but I never seen 1 HT and there was 400 bikes there but I suppose that is to be expected.
As for mentioning the HT options, it is amazing how much the geometry can effect the ride, I think this is the main issue and if I had something a bit slacker it may be all the bike I need. I'll check them models out thanks. Only thing is I really want to start doing some relaxed enduro events like the Naughty Northumbrian I recently went too but I never seen 1 HT and there was 400 bikes there but I suppose that is to be expected.
Tall_Paul said:
Before this week I'd only ever ridden 2x or 3x systems, been riding a couple of 1x bikes with 32t chain rings, 27.5 wheels and 10/11-42 cassettes this week.
It didn't stop me spinning up a few steep climbs when my legs were tired, eagle with its 10-50 cassette would be even better.
And at the other end there was plenty of speed to get going on fast stuff. I'd be more than happy with a 1x11/12 set up on my next bike, don't see the need for any more, and it makes it so much simpler not having to shift the front chain ring.
Without wanting to hijack the thread, I've been looking at these recently. The thing that I find off putting is that the rear mech seems so close to the ground when in the highest gear - as it extends to take up slack chain. Is it? If so, is it susceptible to damage?It didn't stop me spinning up a few steep climbs when my legs were tired, eagle with its 10-50 cassette would be even better.
And at the other end there was plenty of speed to get going on fast stuff. I'd be more than happy with a 1x11/12 set up on my next bike, don't see the need for any more, and it makes it so much simpler not having to shift the front chain ring.
Edited by Tall_Paul on Sunday 29th October 00:06
Julietbravo said:
Without wanting to hijack the thread, I've been looking at these recently. The thing that I find off putting is that the rear mech seems so close to the ground when in the highest gear - as it extends to take up slack chain. Is it? If so, is it susceptible to damage?
Yeah good point, you would think so wouldn't you, I ripped mind off in the summer 1 mile into my ride 
Maybe a reason to get a 29er if you are concerned give a little more clearance.
I have been riding with a 42t rear for a while and never had a rear mech damage issue, plenty of clearance with a mid-cage. You're only going to "expose" it on hard climbs anyway, where it's least likely to be damaged. Besides, current SLX/XT are very "in-board" and out of the way. Non-issue that would be a shame to go to 29' for.
Changed my FS from 2x10 to 1x11 recently, and haven't noticed any loss of climbing ability. Definitely down on top end speed, which does matter for me as I tend to ride to the off-road bits from home, and some of it is on busy roads where a bit of extra pace would be useful.
Gearing is 11-42 at the back, with a 36T chainring, though I am on 26" wheels. I've also got a 34T and 38T to swap in when I think the ride would be appropriate - its only a two-minute job. A loop of my local track, riding from home, would be about 20km with about 400m climbing, so the 36T is fine. If I head to one of the trail centres I might swap in the 34T, whereas if I'm going a bit further on the road to one of the XC rides, then a 38T is fine.
Only thing I've had to get used to is changing down just one, poss two, gears at a time, rather than a half-sweep of the cassette when I get to a hill.
As one of the other posters said, a decent HT will knock out an old FS now. I had a go on a Norco Torrent 7.1 a while back - 140mm fork and 3" tyres - was a blast off road, even uphill, though bit of a pig on asphalt getting there.
Gearing is 11-42 at the back, with a 36T chainring, though I am on 26" wheels. I've also got a 34T and 38T to swap in when I think the ride would be appropriate - its only a two-minute job. A loop of my local track, riding from home, would be about 20km with about 400m climbing, so the 36T is fine. If I head to one of the trail centres I might swap in the 34T, whereas if I'm going a bit further on the road to one of the XC rides, then a 38T is fine.
Only thing I've had to get used to is changing down just one, poss two, gears at a time, rather than a half-sweep of the cassette when I get to a hill.
As one of the other posters said, a decent HT will knock out an old FS now. I had a go on a Norco Torrent 7.1 a while back - 140mm fork and 3" tyres - was a blast off road, even uphill, though bit of a pig on asphalt getting there.
I've recently switched xc race bikes from 2x hard tail to a 1x FS. HT was a more traditional geometry steep head tube 29er with 100 mm fork. FS is 120 mm and slacker also with a dropper post.
The bikes are like night and day, I have pretty much the same confidence descending on the FS race bike as I did on my old trail bike. I always felt on the edge of death when going down anything remotely technical on the HT! On non technical climbs the new bike has to be a little slower just due to the extra weight however I opted for remote lockout front and rear and the bike goes fully rigid so you can stand and loose very little power so the real world difference is minimal between both bikes. Most people would easily be able to close that gap by either losing a little weight or upping their power through training. On technical climbs with rocks etc the FS could well be quicker due to the rear suspension.
Gearing - this is probably the largest difference and can be a little frustrating spinning out top gear or sometimes not having a really low gear for super steep stuff. I am however using Shimano so if you went with Eagle you would get the same kind of range of a normal 2x setup. I thought beforehand the spacing between gears would be problematic but in fact I've gotten used to it very easily.
The bikes are like night and day, I have pretty much the same confidence descending on the FS race bike as I did on my old trail bike. I always felt on the edge of death when going down anything remotely technical on the HT! On non technical climbs the new bike has to be a little slower just due to the extra weight however I opted for remote lockout front and rear and the bike goes fully rigid so you can stand and loose very little power so the real world difference is minimal between both bikes. Most people would easily be able to close that gap by either losing a little weight or upping their power through training. On technical climbs with rocks etc the FS could well be quicker due to the rear suspension.
Gearing - this is probably the largest difference and can be a little frustrating spinning out top gear or sometimes not having a really low gear for super steep stuff. I am however using Shimano so if you went with Eagle you would get the same kind of range of a normal 2x setup. I thought beforehand the spacing between gears would be problematic but in fact I've gotten used to it very easily.
PomBstard said:
Changed my FS from 2x10 to 1x11 recently, and haven't noticed any loss of climbing ability. Definitely down on top end speed, which does matter for me as I tend to ride to the off-road bits from home, and some of it is on busy roads where a bit of extra pace would be useful.
I suppose when I really think about it I do this aswell and I may miss the top end gears, I think if I got a FS it would probably change where/what I ride but I think this is probably what I'm after. I think I've decided I need to keep my HT and have best of both worlds just need to save a little longer.nacnac said:
I've recently switched xc race bikes from 2x hard tail to a 1x FS. HT was a more traditional geometry steep head tube 29er with 100 mm fork. FS is 120 mm and slacker also with a dropper post.
A dropper post is probably the single thing I would feel the greatest benefit from, I'm sick of dropping my post at the top of trails by hand. I could get one for my Scott but I'm not keen on the external cables routed around my frame plus I haven't got much room left on my bars after my front shifter and lockout for front forks.youngricharduk said:
I suppose when I really think about it I do this aswell and I may miss the top end gears
I run a XT M8000 group with a 10-42 SRAM GX cassette this year. Adding 10% range from 11 down to 10 actually solves the "problem" quite nicely.Shimano have been truly left behind with their medieval cassettes I'm afraid.
youngricharduk said:
A dropper post is probably the single thing I would feel the greatest benefit from, I'm sick of dropping my post at the top of trails by hand. I could get one for my Scott but I'm not keen on the external cables routed around my frame plus I haven't got much room left on my bars after my front shifter and lockout for front forks.
Indeed it's invaluable. The best VFM dropper is the Brand X ascent at £111 after discount. I am about to buy a Wolf Remote for it for a 2-clamp cockpit : 2 brake levers and that's it. The shifter attaches to one lever and the dropper remote to the other, all I-spec2.Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 29th October 11:14
Dropper posts are brilliant, rode with one the first time the other day, they are especially useful on pedally, up and down trails where you'd be stopping every 200 yards to drop or raise the seat otherwise, short sharp descents followed by short sharp climbs, repeat for the next 5 miles with some flat sections thrown in.
youngricharduk said:
PomBstard said:
Changed my FS from 2x10 to 1x11 recently, and haven't noticed any loss of climbing ability. Definitely down on top end speed, which does matter for me as I tend to ride to the off-road bits from home, and some of it is on busy roads where a bit of extra pace would be useful.
I suppose when I really think about it I do this aswell and I may miss the top end gears, I think if I got a FS it would probably change where/what I ride but I think this is probably what I'm after. I think I've decided I need to keep my HT and have best of both worlds just need to save a little longer.alfa phil said:
just got myself a cannondale scalpel si carbon, it has a 2x11 but still find it wanting a bit more top end on downhill roads on the way home, but boy can it climb off road , and handles so well going down the other end, first time ive had shimano xt disc brakes , so good, now i know what all the fuss was about with discs.
Lovely bike, how do you find the Lefty fork?alfa phil said:
first couple of rides it felt a bit odd,like can this do the job, but now it just feels like a very capable bit of kit,i love getting out on it. full of a cold this weekend so , its had a good clean, 
I know the feeling I had a weekend organised to Kielder on the bikes and then I went and bust me ankle last week at football 
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