Help for a MTB newbie please
Discussion
I've been thinking about buying a MTB for general riding around in the countryside and getting a bit fitter
I was mainly looking at the carrera kraken so I popped into Halfords and had a look, the guy I spoke to recommended the voodoo hoodoo instead as apparently it's a better bike for the same money (£450)
To my eyes the carrera would be better as it has more gears, 27 compared to the voodoos 10, am I being stupid?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
I was mainly looking at the carrera kraken so I popped into Halfords and had a look, the guy I spoke to recommended the voodoo hoodoo instead as apparently it's a better bike for the same money (£450)
To my eyes the carrera would be better as it has more gears, 27 compared to the voodoos 10, am I being stupid?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
BITD the trend was to increase gearing, 10-12-15-18-21-24-27 but more recently there's been a move back down. On a 3x9 you don't use half of them anyway, because the chain gets too stretched laterally across the extremes, and the granny ring you'll never be in unless you're on Everest or are in fact a granny. A 1x10 is lighter, simpler, does away with a front derailieur and really has all you need.
I don't know either of the bikes you mention and I've been out the scene for years but iirc Carrera was/is Halfords own brand. At that money I'd be looking for fit first i.e. is it comfortable, frame second, the better made frame you can upgrade parts, wheels etc later. I'd also be looking at the weight, but that seems a lesser concern these days with all the jump style bikes out there that weigh a ton.
I don't know either of the bikes you mention and I've been out the scene for years but iirc Carrera was/is Halfords own brand. At that money I'd be looking for fit first i.e. is it comfortable, frame second, the better made frame you can upgrade parts, wheels etc later. I'd also be looking at the weight, but that seems a lesser concern these days with all the jump style bikes out there that weigh a ton.
The Halfords guy is right.
Lots of mountain bikes run a single chainring now as wider range cassettes became commonplace - you still have nice low gears to get up steep hills, just not ones that have you spinning away at less than walking pace. Likewise you lose out on a bit of high end that you'd hardly ever use. As said, the overlap on a double or triple setup is huge - think more in terms of gear range, not number of gears. The front chainring has a different tooth profile so the chain stays on without needing an extra device to keep it there.
In return, you get a simpler bike that's potentially a bit lighter - no left shifter, or front mech, or cable. Less stuff to clag up with mud. It's simpler to ride too, just one shifter to think about, no big jumps as you change chainrings.
The Voodoo Hoodoo looks ace for the money, especially with the current offers on.
Lots of mountain bikes run a single chainring now as wider range cassettes became commonplace - you still have nice low gears to get up steep hills, just not ones that have you spinning away at less than walking pace. Likewise you lose out on a bit of high end that you'd hardly ever use. As said, the overlap on a double or triple setup is huge - think more in terms of gear range, not number of gears. The front chainring has a different tooth profile so the chain stays on without needing an extra device to keep it there.
In return, you get a simpler bike that's potentially a bit lighter - no left shifter, or front mech, or cable. Less stuff to clag up with mud. It's simpler to ride too, just one shifter to think about, no big jumps as you change chainrings.
The Voodoo Hoodoo looks ace for the money, especially with the current offers on.
The above posts are partly right. 1x drivetrains are lighter, simpler, easier to maintain etc and are the current 'thing'
A 1x10 drivetrain will not likely though have the spread of gears of a 3x9 (although it isn't really 27 unique gears). It will not have as low a climbing gear or as high a flat out gear.
So it depends on what you think you'll need. A fit person will be fine on most terrains on a 1x10 (depends on the size of the front ring) but it you're not that fit or want to tackle some decent hills then it may not be the right choice.
A 1x10 drivetrain will not likely though have the spread of gears of a 3x9 (although it isn't really 27 unique gears). It will not have as low a climbing gear or as high a flat out gear.
So it depends on what you think you'll need. A fit person will be fine on most terrains on a 1x10 (depends on the size of the front ring) but it you're not that fit or want to tackle some decent hills then it may not be the right choice.
No offence intended, but you do describe yourself as a newbie. And that Carrera is designed to sell to the "newbie" and to people who aren't really in the market for a "proper" MTB.
There isn't anything really "wrong" with it, but if you really do want a MTB for getting into the woods, even on gentle trails, it isn't what I'd be looking for at that budget. It's more what I'd expect a student to be commuting to college on, tough enough to bash up and down kerbs, and with enough low gears to appeal to the "ooh, that's a REALLY steep hill" mindset when faced with a speed hump.
My old GT (£330-ish 8 years ago) has a similar spec to the Carrera, as does my son's Giant (£450-ish 6 years ago). He uses his to bumble back and forth to work, it's just had new forks, new chainset, and new gear mechs among other bits, and it wears road tyres which are enough to get him through a nature reserve pond-side path as part of his commute. But I wouldn't take it "on trail". My old GT is in use by my youngest son at Uni. Again, similar bits attached to it as to the Carrera, and again, it's up to road commuting and lack of care, wears road tyres, and has clunky Suntour coil forks which are absolutely knackered and are permanently locked anyway.
That VooDoo, on the other hand, has more in common with my "nice" MTB, a £1500 Giant Anthem. Air forks (even cheap, low-end air forks are night & day better than Suntour coil forks). Shimano Deore gearing (that's MTB stuff, rather than the Altus/Acera mix on the Carrera which is firmly in 'Hybrid' territory). It even has a larger 180 mm front brake rotor (disc) which is unusual at a lower budget.
I'll be honest, and say that the Voodoo Hoodoo looks like an absolute steal compared to the (more expensive when I just checked) Carrera Kraken. I can't see a cassette size for the Kraken to compare gear ranges,but the Hoodoo comes with an 11 to 42 tooth cassette. On my 2 x 10 Anthem I have a 36 tooth low gear mated to a 24 tooth small ring up front. You'll give away a little benefit in a really low crawler gear, and a little at the top end, but ALL of your ten gears are different, and all useable in simple size order. With a triple chainset like the Carrera, there will be duplicated gear sizes on the cassette when combined with different chainrings up front, and you won't be able to use all 27 gears because you'll damage the chain by "cross-chaining" it onto extremes. The 1 x 10 on the Voodoo, especially if you're a complete novice, is a far simpler system, far more logical and much easier and more intuitive to get to grips with. More and more riders (though not me, yet) are switching from 3 x and 2 x gear systems to a single chainring up front, especially those who take it seriously.
Given those two options, I'd buy the Voodoo over the Carrera every day of the week. If nothing else, a 1 x 10 Deore gear set is far "cooler" on the trails than any 3 x 9 Acera/Altus set up will ever be. Bang on trend!
More importantly, whatever you buy, enjoy your riding, and build slowly - don't go off trying to run before you have learned to walk. I tried that, and it hurts...
There isn't anything really "wrong" with it, but if you really do want a MTB for getting into the woods, even on gentle trails, it isn't what I'd be looking for at that budget. It's more what I'd expect a student to be commuting to college on, tough enough to bash up and down kerbs, and with enough low gears to appeal to the "ooh, that's a REALLY steep hill" mindset when faced with a speed hump.
My old GT (£330-ish 8 years ago) has a similar spec to the Carrera, as does my son's Giant (£450-ish 6 years ago). He uses his to bumble back and forth to work, it's just had new forks, new chainset, and new gear mechs among other bits, and it wears road tyres which are enough to get him through a nature reserve pond-side path as part of his commute. But I wouldn't take it "on trail". My old GT is in use by my youngest son at Uni. Again, similar bits attached to it as to the Carrera, and again, it's up to road commuting and lack of care, wears road tyres, and has clunky Suntour coil forks which are absolutely knackered and are permanently locked anyway.
That VooDoo, on the other hand, has more in common with my "nice" MTB, a £1500 Giant Anthem. Air forks (even cheap, low-end air forks are night & day better than Suntour coil forks). Shimano Deore gearing (that's MTB stuff, rather than the Altus/Acera mix on the Carrera which is firmly in 'Hybrid' territory). It even has a larger 180 mm front brake rotor (disc) which is unusual at a lower budget.
I'll be honest, and say that the Voodoo Hoodoo looks like an absolute steal compared to the (more expensive when I just checked) Carrera Kraken. I can't see a cassette size for the Kraken to compare gear ranges,but the Hoodoo comes with an 11 to 42 tooth cassette. On my 2 x 10 Anthem I have a 36 tooth low gear mated to a 24 tooth small ring up front. You'll give away a little benefit in a really low crawler gear, and a little at the top end, but ALL of your ten gears are different, and all useable in simple size order. With a triple chainset like the Carrera, there will be duplicated gear sizes on the cassette when combined with different chainrings up front, and you won't be able to use all 27 gears because you'll damage the chain by "cross-chaining" it onto extremes. The 1 x 10 on the Voodoo, especially if you're a complete novice, is a far simpler system, far more logical and much easier and more intuitive to get to grips with. More and more riders (though not me, yet) are switching from 3 x and 2 x gear systems to a single chainring up front, especially those who take it seriously.
Given those two options, I'd buy the Voodoo over the Carrera every day of the week. If nothing else, a 1 x 10 Deore gear set is far "cooler" on the trails than any 3 x 9 Acera/Altus set up will ever be. Bang on trend!
More importantly, whatever you buy, enjoy your riding, and build slowly - don't go off trying to run before you have learned to walk. I tried that, and it hurts...
Thanks for the brilliant replies guys, I now feel much more clued up than I did last night and I think based on the comments here and the reviews online I'll be sticking with halfords recommendation of the voodoo
Should be ready to pick up on Sunday so I've got a few days to Google some local easy routes
Should be ready to pick up on Sunday so I've got a few days to Google some local easy routes
Kawasicki said:
There are of course riders who use the full range of gears available from before 1x became a thing. They won't be switching to 1x anytime soon.
Can you use "the full range" though?FWIW I run a couple of triples (3 x 8 and 3 x 9), and three doubles (2 x 8, 2 x 10, and 2 x 11). On the '2 x' bikes I can use most of the gears, but the opposite ends thing gets a bit noisy so it's not preferred. With the triples, though, I think the most you can use is roughly two thirds of the cassette with any one chainring. Granny ring on a 3 x 9 and anything higher than the No 6 sprocket causes issues. Middle ring, you're confined to the middle of the cassette, perhaps on a well set up system as many as 7 sprockets will work. Then on the 52 tooth front ring you can forget about the largest three sprockets as using them would be mechanical suicide. So out of 27 notional gears, you can disregard at least 8 of them. Many have a duplicate gear on another chainring too. It's all well and good if you're experienced, but suddenly giving a newcomer 27 possible combinations, then persuading them that they shouldn't use 8 of them, and getting them to remember which 8 they are? Stick with a '2 x' at the most these days, unless you're touring with a heavily laden bike. '1 x' is simpler still. Up the cassette for lower gears, down for higher ones, all off one lever with your head free to concentrate on the trail, your cadence, and the scenery, not looking down at the cassette and chainrings trying to work out which lever to push in which direction before a gear change, like I've seen less experienced riders do. Besides which, the Deore gearing on that Voodoo is streets ahead of the cheapo hybrid kit on the Carrera, and they're about the same price at the moment. You'd be daft not to...
Nah. I'm still getting my money's worth out of the 3x10 stuff on my MTB (in the winter grinding mud) before I put on the 1x10 kit on in the spring.
The outer extremes are silly. Even on the steepest ride-able slopes, the lowest gears are unnecessary - a leisurely walk/push is faster. At the other end, I can be doing more than 30mph on a downhill road and still not be spinning out. I don't need that. The bike spends 95%+ of its time in the middle ring with the odd drop to the granny ring for a longer steep climb. The 1x setup effectively loses a gear or two off the far ends of that range.
Are there people who need those tiny gears to get up the hills and also want to go really really fast back down? It's like having a serious 4x4 with low range but that's also geared to do 200+mph in 5th.
The outer extremes are silly. Even on the steepest ride-able slopes, the lowest gears are unnecessary - a leisurely walk/push is faster. At the other end, I can be doing more than 30mph on a downhill road and still not be spinning out. I don't need that. The bike spends 95%+ of its time in the middle ring with the odd drop to the granny ring for a longer steep climb. The 1x setup effectively loses a gear or two off the far ends of that range.
Are there people who need those tiny gears to get up the hills and also want to go really really fast back down? It's like having a serious 4x4 with low range but that's also geared to do 200+mph in 5th.
I would go for the Voodoo out of those two. I bought a Carrera Fury last year when they had a deal on that made it about the same price as a Kraken and i really like it. I was worried that 1x11 wouldn't be enough, but saw various reviews recommending 1x11, so went for it. It's just simpler and other than a few bits when I have ridden on the road and could have done with one more higher gear, it's been ideal.
I recently bought a full suspension bike which has 2x10 deore gearing. I think I prefer the Sram 1x11 on the Fury, but only had one chance to ride the full suspension one so far, so might just take a bit of getting used to again. Other than when I cycled through the gears to check they were all running okay, I think I was just on the small ring for that ride anyway.
I recently bought a full suspension bike which has 2x10 deore gearing. I think I prefer the Sram 1x11 on the Fury, but only had one chance to ride the full suspension one so far, so might just take a bit of getting used to again. Other than when I cycled through the gears to check they were all running okay, I think I was just on the small ring for that ride anyway.
sjg said:
Nah. I'm still getting my money's worth out of the 3x10 stuff on my MTB (in the winter grinding mud) before I put on the 1x10 kit on in the spring.
The outer extremes are silly. Even on the steepest ride-able slopes, the lowest gears are unnecessary - a leisurely walk/push is faster. At the other end, I can be doing more than 30mph on a downhill road and still not be spinning out. I don't need that. The bike spends 95%+ of its time in the middle ring with the odd drop to the granny ring for a longer steep climb. The 1x setup effectively loses a gear or two off the far ends of that range.
Are there people who need those tiny gears to get up the hills and also want to go really really fast back down? It's like having a serious 4x4 with low range but that's also geared to do 200+mph in 5th.
Why are the outer extremes silly? Living in the South Downs, I need my triple to go up the hills. I sometimes challenge myself to get up the steep climbs in the middle ring, because it works you harder, and works you differently. And like on Sunday when everything froze! I also like the big ring/small cog combo, maybe it doesn't get a lot of use off-road, but I don't drive my mtb somewhere to off road, it gets used on the road too. The outer extremes are silly. Even on the steepest ride-able slopes, the lowest gears are unnecessary - a leisurely walk/push is faster. At the other end, I can be doing more than 30mph on a downhill road and still not be spinning out. I don't need that. The bike spends 95%+ of its time in the middle ring with the odd drop to the granny ring for a longer steep climb. The 1x setup effectively loses a gear or two off the far ends of that range.
Are there people who need those tiny gears to get up the hills and also want to go really really fast back down? It's like having a serious 4x4 with low range but that's also geared to do 200+mph in 5th.
Whatever gears you have, you will use them all at some point, unless you only ever ride half a mile on very flat ground. There will always be an instance where you will wish you had more teeth at the back, and sometime less at the front.
Id totally agree with the above. Loads of people screaming its so much better but I dont agree myself. I have 2 bikes running single speed 1x10 and 1x11 and others running 2x10 and 3x10 and i prefer the triple front chainring every time. The weight difference is minimal and I always prefer to have the extra gear range. I like having more gears in between too, there's always a comfortable one.
We have hills where I live so that means going up them (...not necessarily using the granny ring but its nice to have it there) and going down them as fast as possible. I can easily get to the point where im spinning uncomfortably fast (>115) with the 1x10 and 1x11 on even slight declines but a 3x doesn't have that issue. There just isnt a 1 speed setup that gives you the same top end without running a 42tooth front ring and then loosing the low range. i suppose riding a flat(ish) trail at a leisurely pace without a large range in speed then you dont need the gears and they do become pointless then.It depends where and how you ride.
While there are some duplicated gears on the 3x setup (4 in my case) I prefer it personally, but each to there own.
All this said...Id definitely go for the Voodoo, better bike without a doubt.
We have hills where I live so that means going up them (...not necessarily using the granny ring but its nice to have it there) and going down them as fast as possible. I can easily get to the point where im spinning uncomfortably fast (>115) with the 1x10 and 1x11 on even slight declines but a 3x doesn't have that issue. There just isnt a 1 speed setup that gives you the same top end without running a 42tooth front ring and then loosing the low range. i suppose riding a flat(ish) trail at a leisurely pace without a large range in speed then you dont need the gears and they do become pointless then.It depends where and how you ride.
While there are some duplicated gears on the 3x setup (4 in my case) I prefer it personally, but each to there own.
All this said...Id definitely go for the Voodoo, better bike without a doubt.
Bill said:
Kawasicki said:
1x is great if you don’t speed much time riding in hilly or mountainous areas.
Otherwise 3x is optimal or 2x if you are not too fussy.
I'd say the opposite. The only time I miss extra gears at the top is on the flat, or on road.Otherwise 3x is optimal or 2x if you are not too fussy.
Problem is most 3x bikes don’t come with wide range cassettes, especially older ones. An Acera groupset usually comes with a 32t rear, and 22x32 is a ratio of 0.69, 30x42 is 0.71. thats negligible difference. That’s without even looking at mental 50t cassettes.
I got a 34x42 setup up snowdon on a 33lb bike. I’m 80kg and hardly exceptional.
I got a 34x42 setup up snowdon on a 33lb bike. I’m 80kg and hardly exceptional.
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