Stick or twist on 130i?
Discussion
Following on from this thread (130i vs 350z) https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I thought I'd provide an update and ask your opinion -
I ended up with a 130i M Sport for £4k on 1st May 2022. Changed all fluids, filters and sparks and did a trackday. Although OK, I felt the car was understeering and rolling too much, brakes and tyres were weak and seat wasn't really holding me in place even though it had adjustable bolsters. So ended up with following upgrades -
BC Racing Coilovers
E9x M3 Control arms
Geometry / Alignment
Bola FLB 17x8 Alloys
Nankang AR1 235/40 tyres
HEL braided brake lines
Carbotech XP8 front and rear pads and Brembo discs
Motul RBF 600 fluid
Bimarco bucket seats, Sparco seat frames and harnesses
Short shifter
I Did a couple more trackdays with these mods and the car felt great but then did a wet day and neither the AR1's or the road tyres (can't remember what they were) were working so I bought a set of used MAK FAHR 17x8 alloys and new Goodyear Eagle F1 Aysmmetric 225/45 for road and wet days as the OEM alloys were very heavy at 12kg each. Did a final trackday at Oulton park on 9th December. It was my first time at Oulton park and the car was going great on the MAK alloys and Eagle F1 tyres but the day ended early due to heavy snow fall. All the servicing and that lot cost another £4k.
At this point we sold our E300 hybrid family car and SWMBO insisted on a SUV. I can't stand the bloody things so started using the car as my daily but wanted to make it lighter. Out came mats, carpet, roof lining and most other trim and sound deadening except dash and on went a GRP bonnet. All the creature comforts are still in. The day before a trackday, I swap the bucket seats in and just remove the back seat base and fold the backrest down. This makes the boot extra large and easy to carry a set of wheels, toolbox and hydraulic jack. I've transported a load of gym equipment and DIY materials in the car.
With the bucket seats in and Bola alloys on, the car is near 90kg lighter and you can feel it but its still a bit on the heavy side (standard kerb weight is 1460kg). Unfortunately there isn't any easy / cheap way of getting any more weight out.
I never got round to the 12 car rallying or drifting or anything. I did manage another 5 trackdays in 2023 and again in 2024 but only two last year. The car's not missed a beat on any of those days. Has got me there and back without any drama.
The XP8 pads have been fantastic and are still going strong after 17 trackdays and about 10k road miles. The only time I've had any fade was last year at Bedford after the long straights. The AR1's lasted about 12 trackdays and the MAK alloys came with lightly used Nankang Neova AD08's in 225/45 which have also been pretty good and could easily do several more trackdays. The Goodyear Eagle F1's have also had half a dozen wet trackdays and 10k road miles and are still going strong. Other than oil changes I've not had to do anything so the running costs have been lower than what I anticipated. I started using Comma motorsport 5w/50 oil after the first couple of trackdays which made a difference to how the car sounded and felt and highly recommend it.
I've not quite gelled with the car as I did with the MX5 as I was able to drive that on the throttle but towards the end I was getting a lot of problems with its turbo setup. Whilst the 130i is faster, it doesn't feel the 260 bhp it is due to its weight. It could also do with shorter ratio's and a lighter flywheel for track use. Its also on the quite side and needs a louder exhaust and pretty much everyone that tracks a 130i recommends a LSD.
I'm at a bit of a crossroads with the car now. My kids have gone on to Uni and so I don't really need more than two seats 99% of the time. I did half heartedly put the car up for sale early last year for £5k as I knew I was going to struggle to get on track last year and wanted to see what I would get but nothing happened so I just used it as a daily.
I don't know whether to stick or twist now. Thoughts of rallying and drifting have gone and just getting on track a lot more this year would be good. So I keep thinking about selling and getting a BBR converted MX5 NC but then the 130i has been reliable and spending another £1.5k on a louder exhaust and LSD may make it that bit more enjoyable?
I thought I'd provide an update and ask your opinion -
I ended up with a 130i M Sport for £4k on 1st May 2022. Changed all fluids, filters and sparks and did a trackday. Although OK, I felt the car was understeering and rolling too much, brakes and tyres were weak and seat wasn't really holding me in place even though it had adjustable bolsters. So ended up with following upgrades -
BC Racing Coilovers
E9x M3 Control arms
Geometry / Alignment
Bola FLB 17x8 Alloys
Nankang AR1 235/40 tyres
HEL braided brake lines
Carbotech XP8 front and rear pads and Brembo discs
Motul RBF 600 fluid
Bimarco bucket seats, Sparco seat frames and harnesses
Short shifter
I Did a couple more trackdays with these mods and the car felt great but then did a wet day and neither the AR1's or the road tyres (can't remember what they were) were working so I bought a set of used MAK FAHR 17x8 alloys and new Goodyear Eagle F1 Aysmmetric 225/45 for road and wet days as the OEM alloys were very heavy at 12kg each. Did a final trackday at Oulton park on 9th December. It was my first time at Oulton park and the car was going great on the MAK alloys and Eagle F1 tyres but the day ended early due to heavy snow fall. All the servicing and that lot cost another £4k.
At this point we sold our E300 hybrid family car and SWMBO insisted on a SUV. I can't stand the bloody things so started using the car as my daily but wanted to make it lighter. Out came mats, carpet, roof lining and most other trim and sound deadening except dash and on went a GRP bonnet. All the creature comforts are still in. The day before a trackday, I swap the bucket seats in and just remove the back seat base and fold the backrest down. This makes the boot extra large and easy to carry a set of wheels, toolbox and hydraulic jack. I've transported a load of gym equipment and DIY materials in the car.
With the bucket seats in and Bola alloys on, the car is near 90kg lighter and you can feel it but its still a bit on the heavy side (standard kerb weight is 1460kg). Unfortunately there isn't any easy / cheap way of getting any more weight out.
I never got round to the 12 car rallying or drifting or anything. I did manage another 5 trackdays in 2023 and again in 2024 but only two last year. The car's not missed a beat on any of those days. Has got me there and back without any drama.
The XP8 pads have been fantastic and are still going strong after 17 trackdays and about 10k road miles. The only time I've had any fade was last year at Bedford after the long straights. The AR1's lasted about 12 trackdays and the MAK alloys came with lightly used Nankang Neova AD08's in 225/45 which have also been pretty good and could easily do several more trackdays. The Goodyear Eagle F1's have also had half a dozen wet trackdays and 10k road miles and are still going strong. Other than oil changes I've not had to do anything so the running costs have been lower than what I anticipated. I started using Comma motorsport 5w/50 oil after the first couple of trackdays which made a difference to how the car sounded and felt and highly recommend it.
I've not quite gelled with the car as I did with the MX5 as I was able to drive that on the throttle but towards the end I was getting a lot of problems with its turbo setup. Whilst the 130i is faster, it doesn't feel the 260 bhp it is due to its weight. It could also do with shorter ratio's and a lighter flywheel for track use. Its also on the quite side and needs a louder exhaust and pretty much everyone that tracks a 130i recommends a LSD.
I'm at a bit of a crossroads with the car now. My kids have gone on to Uni and so I don't really need more than two seats 99% of the time. I did half heartedly put the car up for sale early last year for £5k as I knew I was going to struggle to get on track last year and wanted to see what I would get but nothing happened so I just used it as a daily.
I don't know whether to stick or twist now. Thoughts of rallying and drifting have gone and just getting on track a lot more this year would be good. So I keep thinking about selling and getting a BBR converted MX5 NC but then the 130i has been reliable and spending another £1.5k on a louder exhaust and LSD may make it that bit more enjoyable?
Obviously nobody but you can ultimately answer your underlying question but if I were in your position these would be my thoughts.
100% do NOT go for a "louder exhaust" I tracked a couple of beemers & a supercharged mini and was always well under any TD noise levels as I kept to standard exhausts (although from better cars in both ranges) which never compromised driveability as a daily or worried any noise limits.
LSD was a no-brainer for me on all & did work amazingly well particularly on the mini & latter beemer.
I wouldn't have bothered with some of your weight saving as the total difference would be less than using 1/2 tank rather than full tank.
Wheels yes, rear seats yes, lighter/more supportive front seats yes but I wouldn't have bothered with more, unfortunately, it is never going to be an ultra-light TD special, but can still be much fun.
100% do NOT go for a "louder exhaust" I tracked a couple of beemers & a supercharged mini and was always well under any TD noise levels as I kept to standard exhausts (although from better cars in both ranges) which never compromised driveability as a daily or worried any noise limits.
LSD was a no-brainer for me on all & did work amazingly well particularly on the mini & latter beemer.
I wouldn't have bothered with some of your weight saving as the total difference would be less than using 1/2 tank rather than full tank.
Wheels yes, rear seats yes, lighter/more supportive front seats yes but I wouldn't have bothered with more, unfortunately, it is never going to be an ultra-light TD special, but can still be much fun.
Hmmm you've come quite a way with the 130i, but ultimately I think you've reached its limit - i dont think a louder exhaust and lsd is going to offer anything revolutionary.
Now that you can go down a strict two seater route, it might be time to upgrade to more specialist machinery. If you need a modicum of practicality, get a boxster or a cayman. Or perhaps a e85/e86 z4, it'll feel more sporting than a 130i but obviously has the exact same engine in.
How about a m235i or m240i? You can go down the same upgrade route/swap some parts over from the 130i but could easily have an extra 100bhp to play with.
Last choice is move to a lightweight... vx220 or Westfield would run rings round almost anything but obviously has compromises in daily use.
Now that you can go down a strict two seater route, it might be time to upgrade to more specialist machinery. If you need a modicum of practicality, get a boxster or a cayman. Or perhaps a e85/e86 z4, it'll feel more sporting than a 130i but obviously has the exact same engine in.
How about a m235i or m240i? You can go down the same upgrade route/swap some parts over from the 130i but could easily have an extra 100bhp to play with.
Last choice is move to a lightweight... vx220 or Westfield would run rings round almost anything but obviously has compromises in daily use.
Interesting thread as commented on the other thread too when I had that e36. I've got a 130i that I've just tracked & have tracked my mx5 turbo for 7 odd years too.
So 1 I think you are waay over estimating the 130 weight, get it weighed. Mine was on the corner weight scales yesterday. Bog standard road car 5 door, just coilovers & exhaust change, full interior etc & still had some tools in, bang on half a tank of fuel & a really heavy 90ah battery & it was 1296kg.
So interior out, lighter battery, buckets, you are knocking on the door of 1200kg even without fibreglass bonnets etc & plexiglass.
2 I'm surprised your 130 is slower than your mx5 turbo, must have been a odd spec. Mine was a lot quicker just a regular spec well trodden route of td04 turbo low boost at 10psi at 240bhp but 240/Tonne isn't slow particularly when its boosted as so much midrange, vs say a Honda K20 at the same power. Proper suspension & 4 pot brakes it was ace. I even had some water jet cut to size ex BTCC Project Mu pads on which were epic!
However I never fancied crashing it! Sure had a regular rollbar but full cage not possible with hood, well possible custom made perhaps but not with my height, be v dangerous.
Anyway I'm waffling.
Stick or twist with the 130 that's up to you obvs, are lots more things you can try, I've had lots of different cars & have tracked most sorts, but is quite a way you can go with the 130 if you wanted are 300bhp ones around. Try a boxster, Caterham, vx220/Elise etc.
Ref Nc mx5 I think it's inevitable I'll have one at some point but so far I've only driven one NC & was disappointed, had decent suspension & set up just so slow & could feel the extra weight. However I am keen to try a decent power one, did you spot the K24 power one for sale recently? Good spec lots spent. Mate might be selling his sc'd very high spec road/track Nc in spring something ridiculous like £50k in prev owners invoices!
I think the bbr ones are a tad over optimistic on their power figs, but I'd like to try the ones with the cams & claimed 200bhp to see if they are livened up & engine actually has some character.
So 1 I think you are waay over estimating the 130 weight, get it weighed. Mine was on the corner weight scales yesterday. Bog standard road car 5 door, just coilovers & exhaust change, full interior etc & still had some tools in, bang on half a tank of fuel & a really heavy 90ah battery & it was 1296kg.
So interior out, lighter battery, buckets, you are knocking on the door of 1200kg even without fibreglass bonnets etc & plexiglass.
2 I'm surprised your 130 is slower than your mx5 turbo, must have been a odd spec. Mine was a lot quicker just a regular spec well trodden route of td04 turbo low boost at 10psi at 240bhp but 240/Tonne isn't slow particularly when its boosted as so much midrange, vs say a Honda K20 at the same power. Proper suspension & 4 pot brakes it was ace. I even had some water jet cut to size ex BTCC Project Mu pads on which were epic!
However I never fancied crashing it! Sure had a regular rollbar but full cage not possible with hood, well possible custom made perhaps but not with my height, be v dangerous.
Anyway I'm waffling.
Stick or twist with the 130 that's up to you obvs, are lots more things you can try, I've had lots of different cars & have tracked most sorts, but is quite a way you can go with the 130 if you wanted are 300bhp ones around. Try a boxster, Caterham, vx220/Elise etc.
Ref Nc mx5 I think it's inevitable I'll have one at some point but so far I've only driven one NC & was disappointed, had decent suspension & set up just so slow & could feel the extra weight. However I am keen to try a decent power one, did you spot the K24 power one for sale recently? Good spec lots spent. Mate might be selling his sc'd very high spec road/track Nc in spring something ridiculous like £50k in prev owners invoices!
I think the bbr ones are a tad over optimistic on their power figs, but I'd like to try the ones with the cams & claimed 200bhp to see if they are livened up & engine actually has some character.
@Iguana, Ian also known as TheTyrant on babybmw.net is part of Carbotech Europe. You can give him a shout at sales@carbotech-europe.com for any of their pads.
I'm surprised by the weight of your 130i. 1450kg is the published kerb weight of a manual 5 door with a 75kg driver and 90% tank of fuel all fluids and without any optional extras.
I met another Ian (Ian Pye he's on 130i Owners Unite group on Facebook) who had extensive mods to his 130i at Anglesey a couple of years ago. His car was making 300bhp with Cams, decat exhaust, an intake of some sort and remap but it cost quite a lot. He also properly stripped the car but it still weighed 1285kg and wasn't road legal any more. See https://www.facebook.com/groups/526409061074147/pe...
I've had a passenger ride in a BBR 2.0 throttle bodied NC, a supercharged one, and one with a 2.5 conversion with cams. The car with throttle bodies was meant to be making 225bhp but never felt it. It was quite slow even when revved out but sounded great. The 2.5 converted car was quite good and the supercharged car was making 250bhp and was quick. My turbo'd NA was a 1.6 and only making 190 bhp. It had a lightweight flywheel and felt proper quick even though it actually wasn't which was part of its charm on a b road.
Mat Watson from Carwow did a comparison of BBR tuned NC's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIky6MLYZJk
I'm surprised by the weight of your 130i. 1450kg is the published kerb weight of a manual 5 door with a 75kg driver and 90% tank of fuel all fluids and without any optional extras.
I met another Ian (Ian Pye he's on 130i Owners Unite group on Facebook) who had extensive mods to his 130i at Anglesey a couple of years ago. His car was making 300bhp with Cams, decat exhaust, an intake of some sort and remap but it cost quite a lot. He also properly stripped the car but it still weighed 1285kg and wasn't road legal any more. See https://www.facebook.com/groups/526409061074147/pe...
I've had a passenger ride in a BBR 2.0 throttle bodied NC, a supercharged one, and one with a 2.5 conversion with cams. The car with throttle bodies was meant to be making 225bhp but never felt it. It was quite slow even when revved out but sounded great. The 2.5 converted car was quite good and the supercharged car was making 250bhp and was quick. My turbo'd NA was a 1.6 and only making 190 bhp. It had a lightweight flywheel and felt proper quick even though it actually wasn't which was part of its charm on a b road.
Mat Watson from Carwow did a comparison of BBR tuned NC's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIky6MLYZJk
On the pax rides in the MX5s, bear in mind that the extra weight of a passenger makes quite a difference in light cars. It would be interesting as a comparison to have a go as a passenger in your own car too.
To me it sounds like you need a car with more feel/engagement, so I'd say you have reached the end of the road with the 130i. I'm impressed it has given you very reliable service with low consumable costs.
I would stick with NA power for long-term reliability, either a modified NC MX5 2.5 or a 986 Boxster. Race series for both means there is plenty of knowledge out there on setup to make them deceptively quick and/or playful.
At the extreme end for Boxsters - £13.5k
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/1611...
To me it sounds like you need a car with more feel/engagement, so I'd say you have reached the end of the road with the 130i. I'm impressed it has given you very reliable service with low consumable costs.
I would stick with NA power for long-term reliability, either a modified NC MX5 2.5 or a 986 Boxster. Race series for both means there is plenty of knowledge out there on setup to make them deceptively quick and/or playful.
At the extreme end for Boxsters - £13.5k
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/1611...
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