good cheap starter track car?
Discussion
I'm currently lucky enough to be driving around in an m5 which i do intend to get on a track soon. It was supposed to be with me at bedford last friday evening (23rd) but was stuck at the dealers getting 'reprogrammed' after a fuel pump failure. I took my grey mini cooper s instead and had a great time. However, I realised that if I make a habit of this it's going to cost me a fortune in tyres and brakes. So, to get to the point, i'm looking for a recommendation for a cheap, entry level track car. It's obvious to me that I've got loads to learn before I feel the need for something really special so I'm just looking for value for money and reliability I guess.
To anybody with any good ideas - thanks.
To anybody with any good ideas - thanks.
Mazda MX5 or Porsche 924.
Cheap to buy, insure and most of all to run. The Mazda is the champion. Cheap brakes (rotors and pads), cheap tyres, reliable mechanics and very good handling out of the box.
Upgrades are cheap and widely avaliable.
Also it is a great car in which to learn how to drive properly. A more powerful car will mask a lot of mistakes.
You will not be the fastest out there to start with, but you'll learn the right way.
The Porsche is all of the above with a little less avaliable and less cheap upgrades and parts are more expensive.
Cheap to buy, insure and most of all to run. The Mazda is the champion. Cheap brakes (rotors and pads), cheap tyres, reliable mechanics and very good handling out of the box.
Upgrades are cheap and widely avaliable.
Also it is a great car in which to learn how to drive properly. A more powerful car will mask a lot of mistakes.
You will not be the fastest out there to start with, but you'll learn the right way.
The Porsche is all of the above with a little less avaliable and less cheap upgrades and parts are more expensive.
jleroux said:
GreigM said:
buy something bike engined and you'll almost always be the quickest thing out there....
That's if you can actually get it past any of the noise testing... bike engined cars are by far the most common noise failures at track days.J
jleroux said:
GreigM said:
buy something bike engined and you'll almost always be the quickest thing out there....
That's if you can actually get it past any of the noise testing... bike engined cars are by far the most common noise failures at track days.J
Unless you don't have room for a decent sized can on the side (Furys and Phoenixes etc spring to mind), there's no real reason for a BEC to be be excessively loud though. I fitted a 29" x 7" repackable can to my R1 BEC and despite still having an open filter that sticks through the bonnet (therefore more induction noise), it can happily pass a 98db static test at genuine 3/4 revs. It would currently struggle with a Donny / Goodwood drive-by with the open TBs allowing too much induction noise out, but an airbox should resolve that and make it safe for most events.
LocoBlade said:
Road bike noise levels are measured completely differently to trackdays though, so just because the can has a BS kite mark stamped on it to signify its useable on the road, doesnt mean it will get through trackday noise regs
It's a good point. I rang MSV about it today and they would test my engine at 5500 revs at 0.5m at a 45 degree angle if the engine was in a bike. So clearly there's a big penalty for the fact the engine's in a car.Jubal said:
LocoBlade said:
Road bike noise levels are measured completely differently to trackdays though, so just because the can has a BS kite mark stamped on it to signify its useable on the road, doesnt mean it will get through trackday noise regs
It's a good point. I rang MSV about it today and they would test my engine at 5500 revs at 0.5m at a 45 degree angle if the engine was in a bike. So clearly there's a big penalty for the fact the engine's in a car.IMO if you're going on a track to learn to drive, get a low powered rwd car, preferably mid or rear engined to keep the learning curve doable, but as high as possible. VX220, Elise, MR2, MX5
If you're there to go round fast and easily and have fun with other cars, get a CTR, Sport Clio, an old Scoob or old Evo would be ideal.
If you're there to go round fast and easily and have fun with other cars, get a CTR, Sport Clio, an old Scoob or old Evo would be ideal.
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 29th May 11:00
mattikake said:
IMO if you're going on a track to learn to drive, get a low powered rwd car, preferably mid or rear engined to keep the learning curve doable, but as high as possible. VX220, Elise, MR2, MX5
If you're there to go round fast and easily and have fun with other cars, get a CTR, Sport Clio, an old Scoob or old Evo would be ideal.
An scoob or evo will eat tyres and brakes if driven hard so not as cheap as it might appear. I bought my first dedicated track car (205 Mi16) for less than the cost of a season's tyres, brakes, wheel bearings etc on a scoob sti.If you're there to go round fast and easily and have fun with other cars, get a CTR, Sport Clio, an old Scoob or old Evo would be ideal.
The lighter the car, the less stuff you'll use, as a general rule. Integra Type R Dc2 was my favourite trackday machine - it weighed in at less than 1100Kg, and it is fantastically reliable. The right set of tyres and brakepads will last several trackdays.
It's also a practical 4-seat motor - I used it as a commuter and to ferry the kids around at weekends. At 30mpg!!!
I hanker after an elise or a caterham - but these would be toys only - practical considerations would drive me back to a DC2 every time.
It's also a practical 4-seat motor - I used it as a commuter and to ferry the kids around at weekends. At 30mpg!!!
I hanker after an elise or a caterham - but these would be toys only - practical considerations would drive me back to a DC2 every time.
I was in a very similar situation to you, I've tracked my E60 M5 a few times at:
Bedford (PICS),
Silvestone (PICS)
/Scoopz/slides/Silverstone_M5_Scoopz_18.JPG)
and Nurburgring (PICS)
Fun though it is, by the time I've forked out for track insurance, new tyres, pads, etc I thought I'd go halves on a dedicated track car with a friend of mine.
I've never owned a front wheel drive car so was adamant about getting a 3-series or old skool M3 for the track but soon came round to the idea of a MkII Golf Gti when I saw the cost of a new wing, door, etc on a MK2 Golf compared to an old BMW.
We bought the Golf about a month back, it had a Gti Engineering RE1900 upgrade engine, Bilstein(?sp) suspension and track pads, that was it, completely stock interior with 210k miles on the clock. We put a proper steering wheel in, baffled the sump and stuck some toyo r888's on and off we went to Anglesey two weeks ago and Oulton last week. I can honestly say that driving the golf around Anglesey in the glorious sunshine and around Oulton in the pooring rain was far more exciting than driving the M5 around Silverstone...the M5 around Nurburgring still holds a special place in my heart though. OK so the M5 has brute strength in the straights but it just doesn't carry speed as well through the corners as a small light golf. Plus I was always driving around 90% in the M5 mindful of the £5k excess on the track insurance policy, warranty issues, etc whereas in the golf there is no insurance, I'm a little more relaxed and I'm willing to try just that little bit harder which makes for more fun.
Our little golf has been completely stripped out last week and we hope to have it back at the end of this week with full OMP cage, front upper and lower struts, rear strut, seats and harness all fitted then back to Oulton in a few weeks to get our fix of track time!
All in all we'll have spent around £2500 between us on the golf, so £1250 each but that's comparable to one set of tyres on an M5 and a day track insurance. We're keeping the golf road legal, taxed, mot'd etc but the alternative is to scrap all that and trailer it to and from the track.
Bedford (PICS),
Silvestone (PICS)
and Nurburgring (PICS)
Fun though it is, by the time I've forked out for track insurance, new tyres, pads, etc I thought I'd go halves on a dedicated track car with a friend of mine.
I've never owned a front wheel drive car so was adamant about getting a 3-series or old skool M3 for the track but soon came round to the idea of a MkII Golf Gti when I saw the cost of a new wing, door, etc on a MK2 Golf compared to an old BMW.
We bought the Golf about a month back, it had a Gti Engineering RE1900 upgrade engine, Bilstein(?sp) suspension and track pads, that was it, completely stock interior with 210k miles on the clock. We put a proper steering wheel in, baffled the sump and stuck some toyo r888's on and off we went to Anglesey two weeks ago and Oulton last week. I can honestly say that driving the golf around Anglesey in the glorious sunshine and around Oulton in the pooring rain was far more exciting than driving the M5 around Silverstone...the M5 around Nurburgring still holds a special place in my heart though. OK so the M5 has brute strength in the straights but it just doesn't carry speed as well through the corners as a small light golf. Plus I was always driving around 90% in the M5 mindful of the £5k excess on the track insurance policy, warranty issues, etc whereas in the golf there is no insurance, I'm a little more relaxed and I'm willing to try just that little bit harder which makes for more fun.
Our little golf has been completely stripped out last week and we hope to have it back at the end of this week with full OMP cage, front upper and lower struts, rear strut, seats and harness all fitted then back to Oulton in a few weeks to get our fix of track time!
All in all we'll have spent around £2500 between us on the golf, so £1250 each but that's comparable to one set of tyres on an M5 and a day track insurance. We're keeping the golf road legal, taxed, mot'd etc but the alternative is to scrap all that and trailer it to and from the track.
Edited by scoopz on Wednesday 4th June 16:46
Edited by scoopz on Wednesday 7th March 10:41
depends what you term cheap?
I'd suggest this, its been great for us for 4 years, quick enough to be interwsting, standard enough to be reliable, and rwd with lsd so good to learn rwd;
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/553136.htm
I'd suggest this, its been great for us for 4 years, quick enough to be interwsting, standard enough to be reliable, and rwd with lsd so good to learn rwd;
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/553136.htm
Forum | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff