Who for Porsche Specific Trackday Tuition

[GT3-RS]

Just trying to get a handle on Porsche specific Tuition let me know of others you have experience of

[fastfreddy]

John Bussell, Johnny Mowlem, Mark Cole, Richard Westbrook, Tim Harvey...

Maybe even Stephan Hodgetts now

You might not be able to get all of these to do a PI with you but it doesn't hurt to ask...

[GT3-RS]

Cheers for that, Richard Westbrook...I like the sound of that, current Porsche Supercup champion, Now a Porsche works driver.....He'll be cheap then ........got any contacts for them???

Edited by GT3-RS on Tuesday 10th June 15:55

[fastfreddy]

GT3-RS said:

Cheers for that, Richard Westbrook...I like the sound of that, current Porsche Supercup champion, Now a Porsche works driver.....He'll be cheap then ........got any contacts for them???

Edited by GT3-RS on Tuesday 10th June 15:55

You didn't say you wanted someone cheap most have got their own websites, so a bit of Googling and and email to them would be a good start. I can PM you some details of one or two of them if you are serious and have the money to spend.

[Jason22]

I have used Sean a few times before, he is great and gives you so much knowledge on how to drive a 911 properly. He can drive too, did you see him finish 3rd in Monaco Supercup?

There is lots of feedback on that track day topic of his, if you want to read more.

Ps, on your poll, Don Palmer and Mark Hales are automatically selected at the top, so you can double vote by accident!

[GT3-RS]

Jason22 said:

I have used Sean a few times before, he is great and gives you so much knowledge on how to drive a 911 properly. He can drive too, did you see him finish 3rd in Monaco Supercup?

There is lots of feedback on that track day topic of his, if you want to read more.

Ps, on your poll, Don Palmer and Mark Hales are automatically selected at the top, so you can double vote by accident!

I'll edit that immediately...thank you

[GT3-RS]

I'll edit that immediately if I knew what I was doing...have I done it....does anybody know....does anybody care

[DanH]

Don't mistake being able to pedal well with being able to teach!

[jleroux]

DanH said:

Don't mistake being able to pedal well with being able to teach!

Agree 100% with that. I'd even go so far as to say that in order to be the best driver you have to have a level of arrogance and confidence that will undoubtedly make you fairly bad at tutoring others. I've seen lots of mediocre instructors do very well in racing, and some of best instructors i've seen never set foot in a race car.

Jonny
BaT

[DanH]

jleroux said:

DanH said:

Don't mistake being able to pedal well with being able to teach!

Agree 100% with that. I'd even go so far as to say that in order to be the best driver you have to have a level of arrogance and confidence that will undoubtedly make you fairly bad at tutoring others. I've seen lots of mediocre instructors do very well in racing, and some of best instructors i've seen never set foot in a race car.

Jonny
BaT

Your man Simon Mason races a cup car now too, so he'd be worth considering for people.

I've recently used another instructor who I rate, but he's busy enough thanks

[Sean Edwards]

GT3-RS said:

Cheers for that, Richard Westbrook...I like the sound of that, current Porsche Supercup champion, Now a Porsche works driver.....He'll be cheap then ........got any contacts for them???

Edited by GT3-RS on Tuesday 10th June 15:55

I will ask him for you... I have never seen him instructing, so don't know how he is.

And there are lots of good instructors who are very good racing drivers... If you can't drive yourself, you might be a good teacher of course, but you will still lack a lot in terms of teaching or showing someone how to drive, or teaching someone towards actually racing, as if you can't do it yourself, then there are going to be a few things you are missing out on

Jonny, a few of my clients have told me that some of your instructors have tried to teach them not trail brake and start braking in a straight line again, in a 911. Yes, they are only 20 min sessions, to show the lines, but they shouldn't be stopping them doing one of the most crucial techniques needed to drive a 911 properly.

Edited by Sean Edwards on Wednesday 11th June 07:22

[GT3-RS]

aHH the young Mr. Edwards hey no voting for yourself now if you got a slot or half a slot free on the 25th drop me an email....if you could drop Mr. Westbrook a word I'd appreciate it Sean it would make a Fantastic one off experience for my Birthday in September a day with a Porsche works Driver...HHHmmm
Here's a question for you Sean........Trying not to be rude here but who's teaching you cos you are quite young and as the saying goes "he who thinks he knows everything knows nothing" that'll be me then LOL

[richad027]

I think it really depends on what you want from your instructor, if you are relatively inexperienced any of the above instructors will be good, but if you are looking to get the last bit of speed out of your car then Mike Wilds is excellent and the best on track instructor I've had by a big margin.

Richard.

[sfaulds]

Sean Edwards said:

Jonny, a few of my clients have told me that some of your instructors have tried to teach them not trail brake and start braking in a straight line again, in a 911. Yes, they are only 20 min sessions, to show the lines, but they shouldn't be stopping them doing one of the most crucial techniques needed to drive a 911 properly.

Sean, don't be a child - you're dreaming if you think people should be getting taught car specific technique in a 20 minute trackday instruction session.

[jleroux]

Sean Edwards said:

If you can't drive yourself, you might be a good teacher of course, but you will still lack a lot in terms of teaching or showing someone how to drive, or teaching someone towards actually racing, as if you can't do it yourself, then there are going to be a few things you are missing out on

Jonny, a few of my clients have told me that some of your instructors have tried to teach them not trail brake and start braking in a straight line again, in a 911. Yes, they are only 20 min sessions, to show the lines, but they shouldn't be stopping them doing one of the most crucial techniques needed to drive a 911 properly.

I think you're twisted my comments slightly there Sean. I'm not suggesting an instructor doesn't need to be able to drive at all - just that they don't need to be winning championships.

Also, I fail to see how you can teach someone how to race at a trackday. A significant part of racing is in the racecraft - how to deal with other cars at close proximity - and that's not something you can get into at a track day.

As for the "20 min" tuition argument - this has been trawled up before numerous times. Suffice to say not everyone is in the position to spunk £500/day on a top-flight instructor - nor do most people need to. An above average instructor can take an average driver a long way - even in 20 minutes.

In summary, in a 20 minute session, 95% of track day drivers will get just as much from a highly experienced track day instructor than they would from the likes of yourself. I'm not poo-pooing your services at all by saying that - but you need to understand that there are not many track day drivers who are at the level required to warrant paying £500/day for those extra tenths.

Jonny

[GT3-RS]

Now then, Now then, Now then lets not turn this into a "he's better than him" war I'm trying to gleen some constructive ideas on Driving Porsches that will cover all aspects from Track day driving (Fast at a comfortable 7/8 10ths the cars capability and mine) to Race driving Techniques (Trail braking/left foot braking and the like) my Poll was only so I can see at an instance as to who people use not as to who is better than who although I must say I feel I would lean towards the Race driver slightly more but thats just my personal preferance not that I wouldn't use any of the people I have mentioned or the ones that others have mentioned I like to keep an open mind

[openpitlane]

Worth considering the consistancy of teaching too. If you intend to use instructors a lot, best to use the same one IMO (as long as you get on with them). Different instructors will teach different things in different ways.

[jleroux]

GT3-RS said:

to Race driving Techniques (Trail braking/left foot braking and the like)

That kinda proves my point - those aren't "race driving techniques" IMO - they are track driving techniques. The only difference between track (day) driving and race driving is the racecraft element - not what you do with the controls in the car.

Consistancy is a good point and well worth re-iterating. Pick an instructor you can get on well with and one that is going to be available when you want/need them. This invariably means picking one that works full-time as an instructor rather than one that's moonlighting - of which there are plenty.

Jonny
BaT

[boxsey]

I've had some excellent short instruction sessions from instructors employed by the TDOs. Specifically Phil at Easytrack and Scott at Goldtrack. My impression was that they both knew more about driving a 911 fast, on track than I did. I learned a lot from them in a very short space of time.

In order to develop my 911 skills further I've now moved on to having full or half day tuition and use Marcus Carniel (the Goose) who I can thoroughly recommend. Sharing an instructor like Marcus or any of the guys in your poll allows continual development throughout the day - lines to start with and technique later. And time to just go out and enjoy yourself in between time. This is important to me because I want to enjoy the trackday and the car, not become a racing driver (too old and not enough money ).

[oldtimer]

Hi GT3RS , I've spent a reasonable dollop of cash on training over last 5 years in order to learn how to drive on circuit and to get more out of my 911 ( 964RS). Here's my thoughts

for car control I've tried Robb Gravett , Don Palmer , and Andrew Walsh , listed in order of expensiveness! They all taught me something , obviously a lot depends on your existing level of understanding and competence. They all had different personalities, the listing was also in order of assertiveness
If you know what you want and North Weald is accessible to you then Mr Walsh is good value.

for 911 specific I've tried John Bussell , and for going faster I've tried Anthony Dunn . John Bussell can take you out to a virtually private circuit where typically no one else is on track so you have a unique opportunity to focus on the learning. Anthony Dunn is usually based at Silverstone , if you like that circuit then he's a good choice. Both are 'racers' for a living

My next bit of training will be with Sean Edwards , should have been Donington last Sunday but car not available
Heard good things about Sean from the GT3RS community and he was also recommended to me by the Tech9 race team boss Phil Hindley

So there you go !! As already pointed out elsewhere in the thread this can and should be a bit different to the 20min instructor sessions at a normal trackday , to get the best out of it you need to get on with the teaching style of the trainer , and you might need to try a few to get there. I would not rule out any of the names I've mentioned , unlike Sir Alan Sugar