Urgent.. Donington wet lines information.
Discussion
Hi guys,
I have secured a place in the Dunlop Race Academy 2008 semi finals and have only had one previous day at Donington. The majority of my track time having been spent racing karts.
Tuesday (semi final day) is forecast to be very wet at the moment and I have never driven Donny in the wet.
Does anyone have any advice. I hear the track is slippy in the wet due to aviation fuel from the nearby airport.
My own immediate guess is staying off the left hand kerb that leads into the old hairpin anybody with any other suggestions? Many thanks.
I have secured a place in the Dunlop Race Academy 2008 semi finals and have only had one previous day at Donington. The majority of my track time having been spent racing karts.
Tuesday (semi final day) is forecast to be very wet at the moment and I have never driven Donny in the wet.
Does anyone have any advice. I hear the track is slippy in the wet due to aviation fuel from the nearby airport.
My own immediate guess is staying off the left hand kerb that leads into the old hairpin anybody with any other suggestions? Many thanks.
juansolo said:
I rate the aviation fuel problem along with the phantom diesel spills that everyone who falls off the road blames...
Probably right
. Strangely as a spectator at Donny many times I have noticed sunburn is a big problem there and have wondered if the local atmosphere has anything to do with it?BOT, any driving suggestions please?
I haven't actually driven donny in years (makes mental note to have another run at it before they f**k it up for F1!). Never had the problem with where the aviation fuel is allegedly spread. The only real grip issues I have is out of the double apex (coppice?) onto the Dunlop bridge straight, I always used to struggle for traction there and it was easy to end up crossed up. Otherwise it's the usual craners thing... I always lifted otherwise it completely b
ksed up my line into the old hairpin. But a lot of that depends on the car you're in and how big a pair you have
ksed up my line into the old hairpin. But a lot of that depends on the car you're in and how big a pair you haveEdited by juansolo on Sunday 6th July 10:38
juansolo said:
I haven't actually driven donny in years (makes mental note to have another run at it before they f**k it up for F1!). Never had the problem with where the aviation fuel is allegedly spread. The only real grip issues I have is out of the double apex (coppice?) onto the Dunlop bridge straight, I always used to struggle for traction there and it was easy to end up crossed up. Otherwise it's the usual craners thing... I always lifted otherwise it completely bksed up my line into the old hairpin. But a lot of that depends on the car you're in and how big a pair you have
Cheers. I have been watching a lot of Donny vids and it seems the one's who spin are the ones who bottle late at craners and turn in with the throttle off.ksed up my line into the old hairpin. But a lot of that depends on the car you're in and how big a pair you haveEdited by juansolo on Sunday 6th July 10:38
I don't know the charecteristics of the cars I will be driving yet.
One will be a Porsche 968 cs owned and passengered by Calum Lockie.
The other will be the Sportmaxx cup SEAT LEON FR passengered by a former academy winner.
LocoBlade said:
According to what was said on the MotoGP coverage a few weeks ago (when it rained), the circuit owners commisioned an investigation into the dry and wet grip levels of the tarmac, and it was concluded that aviation fuel being dropped was not a factor.
There is obviously some concern over the differing wet and dry grip levels though.ironically I suspect its simply down to its popularity as a trackday venue. High levels of rubber all year round mean when its wet its instantly slippy.
On my only day at Donington there were a few showers and as soon as they started everyone just came in and getting round the track at even moderate speed was difficult.
I think you would need a full days rain to clean the track to get good wet grip.
The aero fuel would surely be difficult to attribute since surely it would have evaporated by the time the track was tested.
Edited by mark69sheer on Sunday 6th July 23:14
Was there yesterday and found out just how slippy it can be. It appeared to be much worse than a wet day at Silverstone I did recently. Personally I put it down to being a VERY smooth surface, the elevation changes affecting the front/rear loading (Craners and Coppice) and the off camber nature of some of the bends (Redgate). Unfortunately I'm not good enough to say if there are better lines for wet apart from keeping of the kerbs!
Thanks for your replies.
Hopefully the tyres we will be on will be good.
There isn't after studying the track in minute detail many places to take advantage of a wider line to aid grip. I think it will be more a case of staying out of the puddles..
Coppice. . . you had to mention it.. My least favourite corner in the world.
Thanks Dan . I guess we won't be using the melbourne loop though just the national circuit.
I will be searching for any grip I can find though..
wish me luck..
Hopefully the tyres we will be on will be good.
There isn't after studying the track in minute detail many places to take advantage of a wider line to aid grip. I think it will be more a case of staying out of the puddles..
Coppice. . . you had to mention it.. My least favourite corner in the world.
Thanks Dan . I guess we won't be using the melbourne loop though just the national circuit.
I will be searching for any grip I can find though..
wish me luck..
mark69sheer said:
The aero fuel would surely be difficult to attribute since surely it would have evaporated by the time the track was tested.
Jet-A is kerosene I believe, so more akin to diesel than petrol; could sit around for a while. However, it appears from the other posts that it's not actually an issue anyway.Best of luck!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zXkWUCBoe4k
try this for some epic Mansell Donington BTCC driving in the wet where he was in an underpowered Mondeo.................
try this for some epic Mansell Donington BTCC driving in the wet where he was in an underpowered Mondeo.................
mark69sheer said:
The aero fuel would surely be difficult to attribute since surely it would have evaporated by the time the track was tested.
I don't know how often or over what period the study took place, but if it evapourated sufficiently that it couldnt be detected by the chemical analysis of the tarmac evidently done, I doubt very much it would have an effect on the grip of a tyre. As Lex said, I don't think aviation fuel evapourates like petrol, I also thought it was more diesel-like in its oily nature but might be wrong.
Edited by LocoBlade on Monday 7th July 22:00
Just come back from an evening session at Donington which started dry, went greasy to wet, back to dry for a bit and then back to greasy again just to round the night off. All in the space of three hours.
Not expert enough to offer advice about lines in the wet but it took about five minutes of constant "drizzle" for the track to lose most of it's grip.
The race guys getting some practice in didn't appear to be doing anything to radical in terms of line once it became wet so i think it's one of those things at Donington that it's a greasy track all over.
I stuck to the same line as dry but just went in slower than i thought, kept it a gear higher then i thought necessary and got the drive out of the corner. This seemed to work well at the old hairpin and the dreaded Coppice but Redgate, Mcleans and the chicane were just controlled throttle understeer as they were between gears.
Don't know if that was right or wrong tbh but then it's all a learning curve.........any advice appreciated if you find a better technique!!
Unfortunately the place on the circuit to really lose grip 1st on both occassions was Coppice IMO.
However this "top" part of the circuit also seemed to be the quickest to dry out. I can only assume this is due to it's "exposed" position compared to the old hairpin?
FYI the damp conditions caused a fair amount of spins tonight. Nothing serious (as the driving standards were generally very good) but the infield at Redgate got a bit of hammering. This led to a fair bit of muck off line and the kerbs at the old hairpin looked a bit battered. There was a lot of rubbish on the outside of Coppice after the blind apex so a wall of death round the outside onto the straight could be a bit tricky (in the unlikely event the tracks not cleaned before your run tomorrow?)
Anyway hope it's of some use and best of british for the competition.
Cheers.
Not expert enough to offer advice about lines in the wet but it took about five minutes of constant "drizzle" for the track to lose most of it's grip.
The race guys getting some practice in didn't appear to be doing anything to radical in terms of line once it became wet so i think it's one of those things at Donington that it's a greasy track all over.
I stuck to the same line as dry but just went in slower than i thought, kept it a gear higher then i thought necessary and got the drive out of the corner. This seemed to work well at the old hairpin and the dreaded Coppice but Redgate, Mcleans and the chicane were just controlled throttle understeer as they were between gears.
Don't know if that was right or wrong tbh but then it's all a learning curve.........any advice appreciated if you find a better technique!!
Unfortunately the place on the circuit to really lose grip 1st on both occassions was Coppice IMO.
However this "top" part of the circuit also seemed to be the quickest to dry out. I can only assume this is due to it's "exposed" position compared to the old hairpin?
FYI the damp conditions caused a fair amount of spins tonight. Nothing serious (as the driving standards were generally very good) but the infield at Redgate got a bit of hammering. This led to a fair bit of muck off line and the kerbs at the old hairpin looked a bit battered. There was a lot of rubbish on the outside of Coppice after the blind apex so a wall of death round the outside onto the straight could be a bit tricky (in the unlikely event the tracks not cleaned before your run tomorrow?)
Anyway hope it's of some use and best of british for the competition.
Cheers.
I was there on Sunday with Boxsey. I have never raced, so what I have put below may be total rubbish.
I used my dry lines, with the exception of Redgate, where I used an even later turn-in, to negate the understeer I was getting (especially when damp).
The left Kerb at Old Hairpin seemed to have as much grip as the soaking track.
The level of grip at McLeans seemed as good as the rest of the track in the wet.
Coppice does have grip around the outside, at the speeds I was doing.
Braking for Goddards was always a worry for me - probably because the track dips, but I never missed the corner.
I think half the battle will be staying on the tarmac, and avoid those who are falling off it.
I used my dry lines, with the exception of Redgate, where I used an even later turn-in, to negate the understeer I was getting (especially when damp).
The left Kerb at Old Hairpin seemed to have as much grip as the soaking track.
The level of grip at McLeans seemed as good as the rest of the track in the wet.
Coppice does have grip around the outside, at the speeds I was doing.
Braking for Goddards was always a worry for me - probably because the track dips, but I never missed the corner.
I think half the battle will be staying on the tarmac, and avoid those who are falling off it.
I've had tutiion from callum at donnignton before. From my experience he'll make sure you know exactly where to be on the circuit in terms of the best lines. He's a very nice bloke and a good instrcutor. Its a while since i drove donnignton in the pouring rain but if i remebmer correctly you'll get a lot of standing water at the old hair pin.
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