fast in corners, slow on straights
Discussion
Just a general comment really on the number of track days I have done where I get held up lap after lap by people who have power but not braking or cornering skill/confidence.
I drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
I drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
kaivaksdal said:
It's very frustrating and I feel that not enough "straight liners" use their mirrors and/or move over to let us little braking and cornering scamps past.
I've not seen a blue flag used at a single track day yet. Maybe you have a suggestion as to how this can be improved?
Pull into the pits and have a chat with the TDO.I've not seen a blue flag used at a single track day yet. Maybe you have a suggestion as to how this can be improved?
kaivaksdal said:
Just a general comment really on the number of track days I have done where I get held up lap after lap by people who have power but not braking or cornering skill/confidence.
I drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
I see this on the road all the time, it is stupid, I come up to a straight stretch of road doing the speed limit, some idiot passes me over the limit. As soon as he gets to a corner, he bottles it, tip-toeing round the bends, even with very sporty cars. I drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
I've shown up a guy in an Elise, he booted it when I came up behind him, he wanted to race me through a complex of corners that I know like the back of my hand, without exceeding the speed limit I was on his tail and he tried to brake test me a couple of times too, he let me past when the road straightend out when he knew he couldn't shake me off, I just wanted to get home.
kaivaksdal said:
Just a general comment really on the number of track days I have done where I get held up lap after lap by people who have power but not braking or cornering skill/confidence.
I drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
you've got the wrong car for track days. you want LOADS of power and not much grip .. that way you're the one having the fun rather than getting frustratedI drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
- of course the best thing is for everyone to observe the track day ettiquette .. have fun and stay safe
kaivaksdal said:
It's very frustrating and I feel that not enough "straight liners" use their mirrors and/or move over to let us little braking and cornering scamps past.
I've not seen a blue flag used at a single track day yet. Maybe you have a suggestion as to how this can be improved?
fix the problem yourself, bolt on a turbo or supercharger.I've not seen a blue flag used at a single track day yet. Maybe you have a suggestion as to how this can be improved?
absolutely said:
...I came up behind him, he wanted to race me through a complex of corners that I know like the back of my hand, without exceeding the speed limit I was on his tail and he tried to brake test me a couple of times too, he let me past when the road straightend out when he knew he couldn't shake me off, I just wanted to get home.
Yep, that was me. I slowed for the corner to ensure I had reasonable vision ahead whilst behind me some idiot was tailgating. I think his 'knowledge' of the road meant he could drive it blind.Anyway, once I was out of the bend I let him pass as he seemed a bit of an idiot.
Two sides to every story...kaivaksdal said:
Maybe you have a suggestion as to how this can be improved?
Maybe the organisers could be encouraged to show blue flags more often, or a calm and constructive chat with the other driver afterwards to explain how you'd appreciate it if they'd cooperate so you can get out of their way.Meanwhile, if you're gaining a hundred yards a lap just cool off for a couple of corners and let them build up a lead before you start pushing again. Your own car will probably benefit from the cooling off too, enabling you to stay out longer on open pit lane days. If they're belting down the straights and stopping for every corner their brakes will suffer a lot of heat and probably won't want / be able to stay out as long as you if you're looking after your own car sensibly.
this used to be the problem i had when i was a caterham owner, I just used to make sure i brought it up during the briefing that way when you do have a grumble to the TDO no one has got any excuses.
Or even more fun... find the "offender" in the pist after the session and go an inspect their mirrors when they ask you what you're doing tell "I'm just checking that they work!!!"
Or even more fun... find the "offender" in the pist after the session and go an inspect their mirrors when they ask you what you're doing tell "I'm just checking that they work!!!"
Not sure on this one feller.
Our track car, a Rover Coupe Turbo, is quick on the straights and ok round the corners, and decent on the brakes.
I found the Caterfields and Elise are a right pain- and often think they should have right of way.
Right up my backside on braking, mid corner hassle. I shift over, after the usual hand shake, and flash, they then hover next to me as I expect them to whiz past with a bike engine, and they dont, I lift off completely, lose boost pressure and my lap is ruinned.
Agreed they are out and out quicker per lap, but bloody annoying! :-)
Kam
Our track car, a Rover Coupe Turbo, is quick on the straights and ok round the corners, and decent on the brakes.
I found the Caterfields and Elise are a right pain- and often think they should have right of way.
Right up my backside on braking, mid corner hassle. I shift over, after the usual hand shake, and flash, they then hover next to me as I expect them to whiz past with a bike engine, and they dont, I lift off completely, lose boost pressure and my lap is ruinned.
Agreed they are out and out quicker per lap, but bloody annoying! :-)
Kam
PetrolTed said:
absolutely said:
...I came up behind him, he wanted to race me through a complex of corners that I know like the back of my hand, without exceeding the speed limit I was on his tail and he tried to brake test me a couple of times too, he let me past when the road straightend out when he knew he couldn't shake me off, I just wanted to get home.
Yep, that was me. I slowed for the corner to ensure I had reasonable vision ahead whilst behind me some idiot was tailgating. I think his 'knowledge' of the road meant he could drive it blind.Anyway, once I was out of the bend I let him pass as he seemed a bit of an idiot.
Two sides to every story...I could drive it blind.
absolutely said:
PetrolTed said:
absolutely said:
...I came up behind him, he wanted to race me through a complex of corners that I know like the back of my hand, without exceeding the speed limit I was on his tail and he tried to brake test me a couple of times too, he let me past when the road straightend out when he knew he couldn't shake me off, I just wanted to get home.
Yep, that was me. I slowed for the corner to ensure I had reasonable vision ahead whilst behind me some idiot was tailgating. I think his 'knowledge' of the road meant he could drive it blind.Anyway, once I was out of the bend I let him pass as he seemed a bit of an idiot.
Two sides to every story...I could drive it blind.
kaivaksdal said:
Just a general comment really on the number of track days I have done where I get held up lap after lap by people who have power but not braking or cornering skill/confidence.
I drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
I track drive a Boxster S. I hear what you are saying, brother. I drive a little red track prep'd Honda Civic which barely makes 140bhp (but around 800kg). It has good brakes and good suspension, sticky tyres and I really enjoy my track days. However, many is the time where the car infront will pull away on the straights and then hold me up everywhere else.
I know that this has been discussed many times and there isn't really much that can be done.... just wanted to voice my opinion....
Thankfully the guys with GT3s can pedal, usually, so they're no problem. It's the guys who can't that can be frustrating.
Kam I attended a trackday not long ago where you were holding others up. One of those others included myself and I wondered at one point if you actually had mirrors 
Not sure where you come from regarding Caterhams, because at the same event there were plenty more that were much quicker than us both
Granted there were one or two that were very slow, but I know they were complete novices and gave them the space they needed until permission was given to pass.
What people also need to remember is that trackdays will attract a massive difference in experience. Just because someone has some very expensive, exotic metal out on track doesn't mean they can drive it well. Actually it doesn't mean they can drive at all. It just means they possibly have more disposable cash that you or I.
I guess that's why there are rules in place. If someone is holding you up and they haven't spotted you, back off and let soem space get between you. If they are that slow or if there is a lot of traffic, pull into the pits and go back out again in a clear spot. If it become a bigger problem see the TDO
Not sure where you come from regarding Caterhams, because at the same event there were plenty more that were much quicker than us both
Granted there were one or two that were very slow, but I know they were complete novices and gave them the space they needed until permission was given to pass.
What people also need to remember is that trackdays will attract a massive difference in experience. Just because someone has some very expensive, exotic metal out on track doesn't mean they can drive it well. Actually it doesn't mean they can drive at all. It just means they possibly have more disposable cash that you or I.
I guess that's why there are rules in place. If someone is holding you up and they haven't spotted you, back off and let soem space get between you. If they are that slow or if there is a lot of traffic, pull into the pits and go back out again in a clear spot. If it become a bigger problem see the TDO
Kam125 said:
Not sure on this one feller.
Our track car, a Rover Coupe Turbo, is quick on the straights and ok round the corners, and decent on the brakes.
I found the Caterfields and Elise are a right pain- and often think they should have right of way.
Right up my backside on braking, mid corner hassle. I shift over, after the usual hand shake, and flash, they then hover next to me as I expect them to whiz past with a bike engine, and they dont, I lift off completely, lose boost pressure and my lap is ruinned.
Agreed they are out and out quicker per lap, but bloody annoying! :-)
Kam
Jeez. It's no wonder the OP and others struggle with selfish attitudes like this around.Our track car, a Rover Coupe Turbo, is quick on the straights and ok round the corners, and decent on the brakes.
I found the Caterfields and Elise are a right pain- and often think they should have right of way.
Right up my backside on braking, mid corner hassle. I shift over, after the usual hand shake, and flash, they then hover next to me as I expect them to whiz past with a bike engine, and they dont, I lift off completely, lose boost pressure and my lap is ruinned.
Agreed they are out and out quicker per lap, but bloody annoying! :-)
Kam
Kam125 said:
Not sure on this one feller.
Our track car, a Rover Coupe Turbo, is quick on the straights and ok round the corners, and decent on the brakes.
I found the Caterfields and Elise are a right pain- and often think they should have right of way.
Right up my backside on braking, mid corner hassle. I shift over, after the usual hand shake, and flash, they then hover next to me as I expect them to whiz past with a bike engine, and they dont, I lift off completely, lose boost pressure and my lap is ruinned.
Agreed they are out and out quicker per lap, but bloody annoying! :-)
Kam
I had an annoying Grinnal Scorpion 3 in front of me at the Ring. He was so slow round the corners and pull away from me down the straighter sections, I eventually got past him but then I caught up with him again a few laps later. Our track car, a Rover Coupe Turbo, is quick on the straights and ok round the corners, and decent on the brakes.
I found the Caterfields and Elise are a right pain- and often think they should have right of way.
Right up my backside on braking, mid corner hassle. I shift over, after the usual hand shake, and flash, they then hover next to me as I expect them to whiz past with a bike engine, and they dont, I lift off completely, lose boost pressure and my lap is ruinned.
Agreed they are out and out quicker per lap, but bloody annoying! :-)
Kam
OP - start by using the best Track day organisers such as Bookatrack who drill this into their customers. They are also willing to have words with anyone disregarding the safety briefing.
Kam - you really do need to understand that these little caterhams are not driving alongside you for a laugh, it is a simple fact that a caterham with 115bhp or less with a windscreen will not top 110 mph. Getting there after 80 mph is a very slow affair so to have their momentum ruined by someone in a maxxed up Rover is a damn site more frustrating than you having to back off for a few seconds to let them get past.
As the base spec caterham had 115 bhp I would say these are the ones you are encountering quite regularly. The superlights upwards are different and should not hold you up too much on a straight, although you will still be substantially quicker above 90 mph.
Kam - you really do need to understand that these little caterhams are not driving alongside you for a laugh, it is a simple fact that a caterham with 115bhp or less with a windscreen will not top 110 mph. Getting there after 80 mph is a very slow affair so to have their momentum ruined by someone in a maxxed up Rover is a damn site more frustrating than you having to back off for a few seconds to let them get past.
As the base spec caterham had 115 bhp I would say these are the ones you are encountering quite regularly. The superlights upwards are different and should not hold you up too much on a straight, although you will still be substantially quicker above 90 mph.
kaivaksdal said:
Plus reliability goes out the window.
What makes you think that? Done properly it'd be no less reliable than stock.I must admit if the discipline is poor and people ignore blue flags waved at them when I've caught them in the MR2 I get frustrated. One day I was on I caught a stripped caged fiesta, I sat on his bumper for 4 laps, he got blue flagged every lap and every straight he pulled over but didn't lift off I had no way of getting past, simply not enough power. So I came in and complained about him, he came in the next lap and got a talking too by the organiser, should have been black flagged in my opinion after the 2nd lap of ignoring the blue flags.. but hey ho.
In the Eunos Turbo (a regular 133bhp car I've turbo'd on stock block 100% reliable in 2 years) its no issue, if I catch someone I just boot it straight past them, theres very little you can't just accelerate past with about 265bhp/ton.
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