172 clio cup Vs S1 Elise Vs E36 M3
Discussion
Hi all,
Which of the above cars would be quicker round the track out the box? And then with the rest of the money spent on modifications? Assuming 6-7k needed for Elise which gives 3-4k to spend on 172,M3 ~2k but with nothing left for the elise.
Tracks the car would be used on mainly would be anglesey coastal and oulton park if this helps.
Thanks
Which of the above cars would be quicker round the track out the box? And then with the rest of the money spent on modifications? Assuming 6-7k needed for Elise which gives 3-4k to spend on 172,M3 ~2k but with nothing left for the elise.
Tracks the car would be used on mainly would be anglesey coastal and oulton park if this helps.
Thanks
that question's not quite as straight forward as it sounds! over a sustained period (say a whole track day) the elise would be the quickest by some margin. in order to get the best out of the other two you'd need to lean on them a *lot* more.
my money would be on the elise every day of the week - ignoring all other requirements (road use/insurance/cheapness to repair)
Jonny
BaT
my money would be on the elise every day of the week - ignoring all other requirements (road use/insurance/cheapness to repair)
Jonny
BaT
So Elise is definately the best out the box but what about stock elise to a 172 with 3/4k spent on trackmods. Bearing in mind the elise would only be a base model 118 hp. The main tracks are oulton park full and anglesey coastal circuit. The reason being my brother cant make his mind up whether to sell the 172 cup for one of the above or to spend 3/4k on the cup. He's never driven a RWD car either if this helps.
projectpug said:
So Elise is definately the best out the box but what about stock elise to a 172 with 3/4k spent on trackmods. Bearing in mind the elise would only be a base model 118 hp. The main tracks are oulton park full and anglesey coastal circuit. The reason being my brother cant make his mind up whether to sell the 172 cup for one of the above or to spend 3/4k on the cup. He's never driven a RWD car either if this helps.
If I was your brother I'd be asking myself what sort of driving style/experience I want rather than which will be quickest. Its not racing after all but just for fun 
Elise is a pure sportscar with RWD and mid engine handling balance, 172 Cup obviously a different kettle of fish but still fun. Spending £3-4k turning it into a proper track s
g is very well but will compromise it for road use (I really enjoy B-road blasting in my Cup), whereas the Elise will be very capable and fun on road or track in standard form.I'd be more concerned about consumables tracking an E36 M3 as it is a much heavier car than the other two. Obviously this depends on budget.
Just my 2p.
With the Clio you'll almost certainly have to rip out the standard seats which are way too high, you'll feel like you're sitting on the car. And I suspect it will get through its brakes more quickly than the Elise.
They are chalk and cheese to drive though so it depends what you are looking for. The Clio is all about drive it on its nose and get it moving about. Lots and lots of fun.
They are chalk and cheese to drive though so it depends what you are looking for. The Clio is all about drive it on its nose and get it moving about. Lots and lots of fun.
jleroux said:
another thing to remember - the elise will always be worth the same money. spending £3-4K on a 172 is as good as flushing the cash down the drain in terms of residuals :-(
This is a very good point. RS Clios have very poor residuals anyway! In fact if you want to turn one into a proper track toy you may be better selling the 172 Cup and buying an early Phase 1 172 as they go for peanuts now, and spending the difference on mods.DC2 is utterly superb. I had one about 5 years ago and took it on track, wonderful car. You get a stonking engine, made for the track, a proper pair of front seats with harness holes (Recaro SR's iirc) and beautiful balance.
I think what others have said regarding spending 3/4k on your brothers existing Clio are right. Better off buying one which is cheaper and stripping it. The Clio's are great fun mind you, and parts are plentiful.
As per someone else, your brother really needs to decide on what type of car he would like. FWD or RWD, then he can target what type of car is best for his track use. I'm sure a stripped out clio, with a set of 888's would make an excellent bit of kit.
I think what others have said regarding spending 3/4k on your brothers existing Clio are right. Better off buying one which is cheaper and stripping it. The Clio's are great fun mind you, and parts are plentiful.
As per someone else, your brother really needs to decide on what type of car he would like. FWD or RWD, then he can target what type of car is best for his track use. I'm sure a stripped out clio, with a set of 888's would make an excellent bit of kit.
Perhaps I am coming from the wrong when I say you don't need to have the quickest car to have the most fun, for example driving a Scooby on track is brilliant if you want to be the quickest it is literally point and click, drifts nicely makes you look good arguably quicker than all the above for an average driver and in your price bracket, driving an Elise with out any gizmo's is so much more fun albeit slower, the Cup/172 a bit like my old JDM Civic Type R was brilliant but a little dull compared to the RWD cars.
Enjoy all 3 are superb I like all of them.
Enjoy all 3 are superb I like all of them.
I have an S1 Elise that I track a few times a year and find that it is the perfect car for track days and weekends.
In terms of how fast it is around a track, I thought it would be quick but I was amazed when an instructor took me out in it on my 2nd track day (at Oulton Park) and just blitzed everything else bar the extreme machines on the track. and that was in a standard S1 elise with S2 suspension (exhaust and induction kit, but they make little if any deiiference to the performance) and Toyo T1R tyres.
In terms of running costs, because the Elise is light it is very light on
Fuel - expect to spend twice as much say £100 per day in a BMW opposed to £50ish in the Elise.
Brakes - They have vented discs as standard but you get get uprated drilled and Yellow stuff pads for £300 off ebay and they will last ages.
Tyres - the basic ones to go for are Toyo Tr1, they will last 10 to 15 track days and are £200 fitted for a full set. You can strp up to Yokohama Advan Neova LTS for £400 a set and are very good tyres or Toyo R888 for £450 a set but they are very extreme for the road and wont last long but are worth about 5 seconds or so a lap over standard tyres but stiffer suspension required.
Insurance - I insure mine through Hagerty as a 2nd car and pay £300 a year and that includes all track days - very cheap
Best modification you can make to an Elise is driver training, you can have all the gear but if you've no idea its useless. The best part of the elise is the fact it is very quick in the right hands even in standard form but you never stop learning about the car, you will be amazed how a low powered car can pass much "faster" cars on a track.
HTH Nick
In terms of how fast it is around a track, I thought it would be quick but I was amazed when an instructor took me out in it on my 2nd track day (at Oulton Park) and just blitzed everything else bar the extreme machines on the track. and that was in a standard S1 elise with S2 suspension (exhaust and induction kit, but they make little if any deiiference to the performance) and Toyo T1R tyres.
In terms of running costs, because the Elise is light it is very light on
Fuel - expect to spend twice as much say £100 per day in a BMW opposed to £50ish in the Elise.
Brakes - They have vented discs as standard but you get get uprated drilled and Yellow stuff pads for £300 off ebay and they will last ages.
Tyres - the basic ones to go for are Toyo Tr1, they will last 10 to 15 track days and are £200 fitted for a full set. You can strp up to Yokohama Advan Neova LTS for £400 a set and are very good tyres or Toyo R888 for £450 a set but they are very extreme for the road and wont last long but are worth about 5 seconds or so a lap over standard tyres but stiffer suspension required.
Insurance - I insure mine through Hagerty as a 2nd car and pay £300 a year and that includes all track days - very cheap
Best modification you can make to an Elise is driver training, you can have all the gear but if you've no idea its useless. The best part of the elise is the fact it is very quick in the right hands even in standard form but you never stop learning about the car, you will be amazed how a low powered car can pass much "faster" cars on a track.
HTH Nick
All depends on driver skill, in novice hands the Clio would be quicker easy peasy.
Elise can be quick but do have to be a decent driver to really get them to go well & a stock k series really is a bit lacking im oomph.
With a £7k budget thats needed for the Elise, so mods done in the right areas an e36 M3 will be a lot brisker than a standard or near standard Elise. Hell decent M3s can be had for £3k thats a lot of ££ for mods.... OK not Tesco value for running costs as its heavy, even mega mega race spec strip is still going to be near 1200kg, but other than the fuel which still isnt that awful- (far better than turbo cars on track) its overall no worse than Elise for consumables costs (tyre prices are more tho) but it will need pads & tyres more often if you track a lot.
Elise can be quick but do have to be a decent driver to really get them to go well & a stock k series really is a bit lacking im oomph.
With a £7k budget thats needed for the Elise, so mods done in the right areas an e36 M3 will be a lot brisker than a standard or near standard Elise. Hell decent M3s can be had for £3k thats a lot of ££ for mods.... OK not Tesco value for running costs as its heavy, even mega mega race spec strip is still going to be near 1200kg, but other than the fuel which still isnt that awful- (far better than turbo cars on track) its overall no worse than Elise for consumables costs (tyre prices are more tho) but it will need pads & tyres more often if you track a lot.
I cant give you an opinion on the bmw, never ran one. However as far as the elise and clio go, I have ran both in differing states of modification on track alot. The elise is the more complete perfomer, awesome braking and traction out of the bends but needs respect, its a precision tool. The Clio is a completely different animal. It has better turn in and thats about it, but it is so forgiving, drift angles are so exploitable and you know you would have to be a complete numpty to get it badly wrong. Having said all that, out of the box lap times are not that far apart, throw in a little bad weather and the clio claws it back. All great cars as far as im concerned !
If its for track days only would a kit car be better?
Something like this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/827734.htm
Something like this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/827734.htm
I've had a 172 Cup and now have a slightly modded S1 Elise.
In the Cup, my favourite pastime on track days was looking out for Elises and hauling them in, as a standard Elise is generally pretty easy meat for a Cup unless the Elise is being driven reasonably well. The Cup was a very quick little car indeed if you wring its neck, and you didn't need to be particularly talented to be quick. Stick it on 888s with some decent pads and it becomes a very useful track tool for next to no cost.
I got a bit bored in the end though so flogged the Cup and got the Elise. Now I'm the one being passed by theoretically slower cars as I need to learn to drive the Elise properly. That's fine by me, as that's the reason I bought it - the Elise is a better tool for learning. If you drive it badly you are slow, drive it well and you will be very quick.
The Cup and the Elise are both very cheap to run as track cars, both great choices. The Clio will go through its parts more quickly on track, but they are cheap and easy to fix. The Elise is easier to crash though.
E36 M3 is a totally different kettle of fish IMO - much more weight, and probably much higher running costs as a result. Good ring tool though.
HTH.
Tom.
In the Cup, my favourite pastime on track days was looking out for Elises and hauling them in, as a standard Elise is generally pretty easy meat for a Cup unless the Elise is being driven reasonably well. The Cup was a very quick little car indeed if you wring its neck, and you didn't need to be particularly talented to be quick. Stick it on 888s with some decent pads and it becomes a very useful track tool for next to no cost.
I got a bit bored in the end though so flogged the Cup and got the Elise. Now I'm the one being passed by theoretically slower cars as I need to learn to drive the Elise properly. That's fine by me, as that's the reason I bought it - the Elise is a better tool for learning. If you drive it badly you are slow, drive it well and you will be very quick.
The Cup and the Elise are both very cheap to run as track cars, both great choices. The Clio will go through its parts more quickly on track, but they are cheap and easy to fix. The Elise is easier to crash though.
E36 M3 is a totally different kettle of fish IMO - much more weight, and probably much higher running costs as a result. Good ring tool though.
HTH.
Tom.
Or get a genuine clio cup (race version) for around 7-8k and a cheap trailer and gatecrash GT3 parties! I raced mine, but took it on a few t/days to bed in tyres/pads/experiment with setup, and around the GT circuit at Bedford it would muller 996 and 997 GT3s (except for the back straight)! Remember they have completely stock engines, producing just over 200hp.
Food for thought? Ex race cars are very cheap at the moment.
Personally I'd get the Elise and learn how to pedal it.
Food for thought? Ex race cars are very cheap at the moment.
Personally I'd get the Elise and learn how to pedal it.
Hi There,
I have owned a Clio and have an M3 now. The Clio 182 was a blast, you could take such liberties with it, regardless of track or the weather it just performed perfectly, I miss it terribly.
The M3 is more fun if you fancy a bit of tyre smoking, I had them both running at a trackday at Oulton park a few years ago and there was nothing in it. The Clio had the brakes and as said before you push well beyond the limits and get it back with out heroics. the BM however whipped the Clio on the straights, it did hawever cook its brakes trying to stay with the clio. you also had to be more careful when reaching the limit.
overall the BMW gives more fun if your being playful, the Clio was more fun when trying the extract the flat out lap.
one word of warning be prepared to pay out for brakes on the M3 as they don't last long!
And the lotus... only driven them a couple of times on track but they are as good as you expect. if I had the cash i'd get one of those.
I have owned a Clio and have an M3 now. The Clio 182 was a blast, you could take such liberties with it, regardless of track or the weather it just performed perfectly, I miss it terribly.
The M3 is more fun if you fancy a bit of tyre smoking, I had them both running at a trackday at Oulton park a few years ago and there was nothing in it. The Clio had the brakes and as said before you push well beyond the limits and get it back with out heroics. the BM however whipped the Clio on the straights, it did hawever cook its brakes trying to stay with the clio. you also had to be more careful when reaching the limit.
overall the BMW gives more fun if your being playful, the Clio was more fun when trying the extract the flat out lap.
one word of warning be prepared to pay out for brakes on the M3 as they don't last long!
And the lotus... only driven them a couple of times on track but they are as good as you expect. if I had the cash i'd get one of those.
I've never driven an Elise so can't comment, but have tracked a Clio and regularly track my M3.
As said above, the Clio is good fun and doesn't need much thought. You can take huge liberties with it and still come out right side up.
The M3 is obviously heavier, and that affects braking and cornering. Upgrading the pads will sort the brakes out, and I've done 3 trackdays one one set of RD29s and OEM disks, plus 5k on the road. Not bad, I think. However, standard M3 suspension is a no-no for track work. Far too soft. The flip side of the M3 being that you get 300bhp to play with down the straights.
If it were my money (in fact, it was) and if it didn't need to be a daily drive, then the M3. Strip the interior, get a set of alloys and a second hand set of slicks, and go play!
As said above, the Clio is good fun and doesn't need much thought. You can take huge liberties with it and still come out right side up.
The M3 is obviously heavier, and that affects braking and cornering. Upgrading the pads will sort the brakes out, and I've done 3 trackdays one one set of RD29s and OEM disks, plus 5k on the road. Not bad, I think. However, standard M3 suspension is a no-no for track work. Far too soft. The flip side of the M3 being that you get 300bhp to play with down the straights.
If it were my money (in fact, it was) and if it didn't need to be a daily drive, then the M3. Strip the interior, get a set of alloys and a second hand set of slicks, and go play!
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