Cheapest track day car to run?
Discussion
After a few trips on track lately I've caught somewhat of a bug I think.
I'm conscious that I'll have to economise away from the TVR at some point in the future. Purchase price isn't too critical, but I'd like to replace it with something I can run cheaply and, if the worst comes to the worst, straighten out.
The cost of tyres, consumables, tuning mods (potentially) and spare parts has to be low. If road insurance and petrol costs were sensible that'd be a bonus too. The idea would be to use it as a reasonably reguluar road car, but also do more track days. I love the TVR to bits, but it's scary how much damage (in munitary terms) I can do to the tyres in just one track day!
RWD would be good, but open to suggestion.
Apologies for the 'what car' thread, but genuinely interested in the different running costs on track. Using the tyres as an example, I remember that similar quality rubber on my 15"-wheel'd skinny tyre'd Eunos was about half as much corner-for-corner...
I'm conscious that I'll have to economise away from the TVR at some point in the future. Purchase price isn't too critical, but I'd like to replace it with something I can run cheaply and, if the worst comes to the worst, straighten out.
The cost of tyres, consumables, tuning mods (potentially) and spare parts has to be low. If road insurance and petrol costs were sensible that'd be a bonus too. The idea would be to use it as a reasonably reguluar road car, but also do more track days. I love the TVR to bits, but it's scary how much damage (in munitary terms) I can do to the tyres in just one track day!
RWD would be good, but open to suggestion.
Apologies for the 'what car' thread, but genuinely interested in the different running costs on track. Using the tyres as an example, I remember that similar quality rubber on my 15"-wheel'd skinny tyre'd Eunos was about half as much corner-for-corner...
Have you been checking your Tyre pressures when hot? That could be the reason its wearing tyres so badly...
If Purchase price isn't critical get a new Caterham Superlight (or an R500 and have some VERY fast fun!
)
Early Elise or something is cheaper and slightly more practical...
you do need to give us a budget or somesorts to help reccomend the right car!
If you are a true Petrol head costs will spiral out of control anyway... I bought a wreck of an old 3 door Sierra Cosworth years ago for £5k to stop me using my then new brand new Boxster on track so much... next thing I know I had sunk £60,000 into the Sierra and had a 600bhp 4 wheel drive track monster hahahah...
Then last year I bought a £8k Westfield as I was fed up of the running costs of doing Trackdays in my Sierra or 911 or Skyline (all over 500bhp.. sometimes I took all 3 to the same trackday... fuel/brake and tyre costs for the day were properly scary!)
and guess whats happened to my plans of spending nothing on the Westy??? whoooops!
BUT I love the Westy and its very rewarding and when its finished it WILL be cheap to run!
If Purchase price isn't critical get a new Caterham Superlight (or an R500 and have some VERY fast fun!
)Early Elise or something is cheaper and slightly more practical...
you do need to give us a budget or somesorts to help reccomend the right car!
If you are a true Petrol head costs will spiral out of control anyway... I bought a wreck of an old 3 door Sierra Cosworth years ago for £5k to stop me using my then new brand new Boxster on track so much... next thing I know I had sunk £60,000 into the Sierra and had a 600bhp 4 wheel drive track monster hahahah...
Then last year I bought a £8k Westfield as I was fed up of the running costs of doing Trackdays in my Sierra or 911 or Skyline (all over 500bhp.. sometimes I took all 3 to the same trackday... fuel/brake and tyre costs for the day were properly scary!)
and guess whats happened to my plans of spending nothing on the Westy??? whoooops!
BUT I love the Westy and its very rewarding and when its finished it WILL be cheap to run!
Edited by Porkie on Tuesday 10th March 14:38
Edited by Porkie on Tuesday 10th March 14:53
Chris71 said:
Using the tyres as an example, I remember that similar quality rubber on my 15"-wheel'd skinny tyre'd Eunos was about half as much corner-for-corner...
You've hit the nail on the head. I use a Mk1 Eunos for track days and weekends.Toyo's are approx £80 a corner
Brake pads are approx £50 for fronts
Brake discs are v. cheap (£80 a corner IIRC)
This is of course, a long-winded way of saying "MX5!" in a what car thread.
Yep, set to 30psi hot all round. That said, the concept still remains - there are cheaper tyres to replace than those on the TVR! Ditto any specialist parts or work I have to pay someone else to do.
It may be the difference isn't that huge as the S-Series is quite a cheap car to run. One of the main concerns though is cosmetic damage with a fibreglass - panels for a Pug 205 or MX5 must be cheaper if you have an 'off? (Firmly opposed to doing so you understand, it's just in the back of my mind...)
It may be the difference isn't that huge as the S-Series is quite a cheap car to run. One of the main concerns though is cosmetic damage with a fibreglass - panels for a Pug 205 or MX5 must be cheaper if you have an 'off? (Firmly opposed to doing so you understand, it's just in the back of my mind...)
MK3 Golf GTi 16v
Standard sized parts used on plenty of different cars, 195/50/15 common as muck tyres. Plenty of people making upgrade parts. Strong, well made, strong engine and if you smashed it up you could buy a whole replacemnt car/shell for <£300.
May not be the quickest or most pure trackday car around but probably the cheapest.
Total cost to build this including the car? <£800
And was one of the quickest cars on track at Woodbridge. And still running strong with hardly any maintennce after numerous trackdays apparently.
Although if initial buying cost is not an issue then not really what your after I suppose.
Standard sized parts used on plenty of different cars, 195/50/15 common as muck tyres. Plenty of people making upgrade parts. Strong, well made, strong engine and if you smashed it up you could buy a whole replacemnt car/shell for <£300.
May not be the quickest or most pure trackday car around but probably the cheapest.
Total cost to build this including the car? <£800
And was one of the quickest cars on track at Woodbridge. And still running strong with hardly any maintennce after numerous trackdays apparently.
Although if initial buying cost is not an issue then not really what your after I suppose.
Like you say, initial outlay isn't really the problem. Basically I've got a reasonable amount saved up, but I need to keep hold of it - I can sink it into a car for a year or two, but I can't really justify burning it off in petrol, tyres and consumables for a more costly car to run.
A decent Locaterfield does appeal after I had a ride in a fantastic 2-litre Zetec Westfield around Llandow a week or so ago. However, I'd quite like something I could commute in occasionally and I'm paranoid the local chavs would choose to use a completely open kit car as a latrine.
The main contender is - in true 'what car' thread style - an MX5 I reckon. I've owned a mk1 Eunos before and it's just the memory of picking up those Eagle F1s for less than the price of filling up the TVR that sticks in my mind! The thing is it would have to be significantly cheaper to make sense as I've got the TVR handling better than my Mazda ever did now, it's usefully quicker and (to me at least) it obliterates the MX5 for character. The thing is I feel a little bit nervous taking it on the track and any problems are potentially a lot more to fix. I feel I could relax a bit more with something cheaper, rather than thinking 'now I better slow down/come in to cool the car down/save some petrol'.
A decent Locaterfield does appeal after I had a ride in a fantastic 2-litre Zetec Westfield around Llandow a week or so ago. However, I'd quite like something I could commute in occasionally and I'm paranoid the local chavs would choose to use a completely open kit car as a latrine.
The main contender is - in true 'what car' thread style - an MX5 I reckon. I've owned a mk1 Eunos before and it's just the memory of picking up those Eagle F1s for less than the price of filling up the TVR that sticks in my mind! The thing is it would have to be significantly cheaper to make sense as I've got the TVR handling better than my Mazda ever did now, it's usefully quicker and (to me at least) it obliterates the MX5 for character. The thing is I feel a little bit nervous taking it on the track and any problems are potentially a lot more to fix. I feel I could relax a bit more with something cheaper, rather than thinking 'now I better slow down/come in to cool the car down/save some petrol'.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 10th March 17:00
God, it may be the complete opposite of what I'm looking for, but how cool would this be until it broke:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/902897.htm
Quite liked the look of the 924S with the V8 conversion in there too!
Sorry, not really adhering to the low cost ethos there. This might be more like it:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/925348.htm
Not sure I'd be brave enough for an ex-hirecar though!
Anyway, back on track, it does raise an interesting point. Risky as it may be, buying a car which has already been someone's long suffering track toy, I guess the cost of fitting race seats, roll protection, bigger brakes and so on will never really be recouped when you come to sell it? By that logic I guess you're better off buying a car ready-converted?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/902897.htm
Quite liked the look of the 924S with the V8 conversion in there too!
Sorry, not really adhering to the low cost ethos there. This might be more like it:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/925348.htm
Not sure I'd be brave enough for an ex-hirecar though!
Anyway, back on track, it does raise an interesting point. Risky as it may be, buying a car which has already been someone's long suffering track toy, I guess the cost of fitting race seats, roll protection, bigger brakes and so on will never really be recouped when you come to sell it? By that logic I guess you're better off buying a car ready-converted?
The trackday cars for sale does have some good ones. I'd be tempted by this
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/935600.htm
Tyres etc should be fairly cheap and most of the work has already been done.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/935600.htm
Tyres etc should be fairly cheap and most of the work has already been done.
james28 said:
Get yourself an mx5 road car and do the work yourself all you need is suspention brakes and a cage with some track tyres and away you go
Interesting. Why a road car specifically?As mentioned above my suspicion is that I'd never see the cost of putting the cage etc. in back from a DIY project. Isn't it better to let someone else take the hit on installing those?
Hi Chris, my 205 is honestly as much fun as my old V8s (check the profile pic). But my advice would be to get one thats done, ie caged, bucket seats, suspension and brakes. It soon mounts up otherwise. I wouldn't track without a cage so I'd put that on the no 1.1 list. (behind bhp of course!!)
ps bike carbs helping 134bhp in my pug feels rapid - it only weighs 793kgs and easily as fast as my old S3 (to be fair it is faster especially on corners)
ps bike carbs helping 134bhp in my pug feels rapid - it only weighs 793kgs and easily as fast as my old S3 (to be fair it is faster especially on corners)
Edited by V8ish on Wednesday 11th March 22:23
V8ish said:
Hi Chris, my 205 is honestly as much fun as my old V8s (check the profile pic). But my advice would be to get one thats done, ie caged, bucket seats, suspension and brakes. It soon mounts up otherwise. I wouldn't track without a cage so I'd put that on the no 1.1 list. (behind bhp of course!!)
ps bike carbs helping 134bhp in my pug feels rapid - it only weighs 793kgs and easily as fast as my old S3 (to be fair it is faster especially on corners)
Hi Grant. What was the reasoning behind going for a 205? Having had one as a road car a while back I can testify to the fact they're fun, but how do they stock up on parts supply, cost and specialist support? In theory I'd also prefer to go for rear wheel drive, but I think the most important thing is getting more track time in without breaking the bank, so I'd definitely consider a hot hatch if the other advantages made up for it. ps bike carbs helping 134bhp in my pug feels rapid - it only weighs 793kgs and easily as fast as my old S3 (to be fair it is faster especially on corners)
Raify said:
Chris71 said:
Using the tyres as an example, I remember that similar quality rubber on my 15"-wheel'd skinny tyre'd Eunos was about half as much corner-for-corner...
You've hit the nail on the head. I use a Mk1 Eunos for track days and weekends.Toyo's are approx £80 a corner
Brake pads are approx £50 for fronts
Brake discs are v. cheap (£80 a corner IIRC)
This is of course, a long-winded way of saying "MX5!" in a what car thread.
pikeyboy said:
Raify said:
Chris71 said:
Using the tyres as an example, I remember that similar quality rubber on my 15"-wheel'd skinny tyre'd Eunos was about half as much corner-for-corner...
You've hit the nail on the head. I use a Mk1 Eunos for track days and weekends.Toyo's are approx £80 a corner
Brake pads are approx £50 for fronts
Brake discs are v. cheap (£80 a corner IIRC)
This is of course, a long-winded way of saying "MX5!" in a what car thread.
I think it's an MX5.
So, two questions - forced induction or not? Secondly, build one up to my own spec or find one that's been prepared already?
The focus is very much on unrecoverable cost. I don't mind sinking money into something that I'll get some increased value from when I sell it on, but I really don't want to up the running costs.
So, two questions - forced induction or not? Secondly, build one up to my own spec or find one that's been prepared already?
The focus is very much on unrecoverable cost. I don't mind sinking money into something that I'll get some increased value from when I sell it on, but I really don't want to up the running costs.
You're going to get a load of people arguing that their setup (n/a or forced) is better. But here is my tuppence (I have n/a):
Forced induction seems to make more sense (for fun per £) on the road as it makes a fast overtaking, flexible acceleration etc.
Ultimate speed on the track is more governed by the suspension setup, tyres and driver. What's going to give you more fun on the trackday? Getting round a corner in a perfect balance of grip and drift? Or getting quick lap times? For me, it's the fun in the corners.
A N/A eunos will be fairly slow (except in the corners) compared to most other cars on track, so this would affect which sort of tracks / clubs would suit the car. I do mainly Lotus On Track days, mainly because they're well run, but also becuase the Eunos isn't always pulling over to let 500bhp Skylines past. I also tend to avoid power circuits like Silverstone.
But, having said all that if I had a spare £5k I'd be straight round to Performance 5 for 180 supercharged horses.
Forced induction seems to make more sense (for fun per £) on the road as it makes a fast overtaking, flexible acceleration etc.
Ultimate speed on the track is more governed by the suspension setup, tyres and driver. What's going to give you more fun on the trackday? Getting round a corner in a perfect balance of grip and drift? Or getting quick lap times? For me, it's the fun in the corners.
A N/A eunos will be fairly slow (except in the corners) compared to most other cars on track, so this would affect which sort of tracks / clubs would suit the car. I do mainly Lotus On Track days, mainly because they're well run, but also becuase the Eunos isn't always pulling over to let 500bhp Skylines past. I also tend to avoid power circuits like Silverstone.
But, having said all that if I had a spare £5k I'd be straight round to Performance 5 for 180 supercharged horses.
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