What Harnesses?
Discussion
Z06George said:
Okay so we are adding harnesses to the car but keeping the standard seats.
What ones would be best for the job?
TIA
George
.... make sure the harnesses are mounted correctly, i.e. the shoulders straps not being mounted vertically down to the floor behind the back of the seat!! I saw an accident on a trackdayday at Oulton Park a few years ago, where an XR3 went head on into the barrier. The chap in the passenger seat had some nasty injuries where the top of the seat back wrapped over his shoulders & at the same time tried to compress his torso against the seat "cushion"!!! It makes me cringe every time I think about it!!! HTH HowardWhat ones would be best for the job?
TIA
George
Z06George said:
Cheers.
Any idea on how points would be best for normal seats? We were thinking 3 or 5, could be wrong.
George
6 point every time, 3 inch shoulder and lap or at 3inch shoulder 2 inch lap with load spreaders on the laps. Make sure you mount them as per the blue book although most belts come with installation instructions regarding angles to mounting points as Ginetta joe mentioned. Also dont forget the stress plates required for the mount points. Are you fitting a cage with as well? can be a bit nasty not having one and not being able to move out of the way something thats coming into the car becasue your strapped into your seat.Any idea on how points would be best for normal seats? We were thinking 3 or 5, could be wrong.
George
pikeyboy said:
Z06George said:
Cheers.
Any idea on how points would be best for normal seats? We were thinking 3 or 5, could be wrong.
George
6 point every time, 3 inch shoulder and lap or at 3inch shoulder 2 inch lap with load spreaders on the laps. Make sure you mount them as per the blue book although most belts come with installation instructions regarding angles to mounting points as Ginetta joe mentioned. Also dont forget the stress plates required for the mount points. Are you fitting a cage with as well? can be a bit nasty not having one and not being able to move out of the way something thats coming into the car becasue your strapped into your seat.Any idea on how points would be best for normal seats? We were thinking 3 or 5, could be wrong.
George
What do you mena by normal seats??
Surely in order for the harness to work correctly they'll either need to be mounted DIRECTLY behind the seats i.e. in a classic 2 seater car or they need to be fed through holes in the seats in order to stop them falling off your shoulders in the result if a crash and sending you head irst into your steering wheel?
Surely in order for the harness to work correctly they'll either need to be mounted DIRECTLY behind the seats i.e. in a classic 2 seater car or they need to be fed through holes in the seats in order to stop them falling off your shoulders in the result if a crash and sending you head irst into your steering wheel?
Schroth make ‘quick fit’ harnesses specific to make of car. I borrowed one last week for my M3. The shoulder straps fit into the OEM rear seat belt points and the lap belts into the OEM driver seat belt points. Worked really well considering the standard seats are terrible at holding anything in at all!
The car is a 205 GTI. It doesn't have a cage as it's not a trackday car but its had the back seats and carpets removed. We want to take it to the 'Ring but don't want to turn it into a full track car. Don't really want to have buckets if we don't need them, but still want harnesses for extra safety.
What would people recomend?
Cheers
George
What would people recomend?
Cheers
George
TBH, unless you are looking at spending huge money on ultra light adjusters, etc. then they are all much the same. The last ones I bought were Sabelt, I bought them direct from Steve at Sabelt UK.
He was a true star, I needed a set of Westfield specific harnesses in a big, he had never seen set and didn't have any in stock. He got me a set direct from Italy in 6 days and didn't even want extra for the international postage.
Demon Thieves were quoting a 7 day lead time, and at that time they wouldn't have known that Steve at Sabelt didn't have any.
He was a true star, I needed a set of Westfield specific harnesses in a big, he had never seen set and didn't have any in stock. He got me a set direct from Italy in 6 days and didn't even want extra for the international postage.
Demon Thieves were quoting a 7 day lead time, and at that time they wouldn't have known that Steve at Sabelt didn't have any.
With regular seats in a hatch shouldnt really use a harnness that will be floor mounted behind, the seat will just colapse in a spank along with yr spine. Better off with the regular seat belts.
If you get a cage with a harness bar, or fit a standalone harness bar so the force would be level with yr shoulders, its far preferable & won't be the downward colapsing force on the seats come spanky time.
If you get a cage with a harness bar, or fit a standalone harness bar so the force would be level with yr shoulders, its far preferable & won't be the downward colapsing force on the seats come spanky time.
As a guide, Scroth recommend that "Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle." In a car with no cage or harness bar, you'd normally run them to eye bolts on the rear parcel shelf or bulkhead, but can't do that in a hatch. The standard seat belts with a CG-Lock would probably be safer unless you have a cage or harness bar.
iguana is absolutely right.
4, 5 or 6 point harnesses are not suitable for use with a standard seat. Racing seats are designed to deflect the forces of the harness, provided the seat belt holes in the seat are above your shoulders and the seatbelt mounts are not mounted too low.
On a standard seat the harness will most likely run on top of your shoulders and not on the seat, the latter will be compressed by the harness in case of a crash, which will likely result in serious back injuries. There is also a serious risk of the backrest of the seat breaking (particularly the flimsy seats of a 205). You will be tossed around in your car like a rag doll.
Either do the full monty and invest in a (pair of) good seats, harnesses and mounting points, or leave the car as designed by Peugeot.
4, 5 or 6 point harnesses are not suitable for use with a standard seat. Racing seats are designed to deflect the forces of the harness, provided the seat belt holes in the seat are above your shoulders and the seatbelt mounts are not mounted too low.
On a standard seat the harness will most likely run on top of your shoulders and not on the seat, the latter will be compressed by the harness in case of a crash, which will likely result in serious back injuries. There is also a serious risk of the backrest of the seat breaking (particularly the flimsy seats of a 205). You will be tossed around in your car like a rag doll.
Either do the full monty and invest in a (pair of) good seats, harnesses and mounting points, or leave the car as designed by Peugeot.
ian964 said:
As a guide, Scroth recommend that "Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle." In a car with no cage or harness bar, you'd normally run them to eye bolts on the rear parcel shelf or bulkhead, but can't do that in a hatch. The standard seat belts with a CG-Lock would probably be safer unless you have a cage or harness bar.
........ most rear parcel shelves and rear bulkheads possess absolutely no strength whatsoever, they would be the worst place you could mount belts!!! Think about it ......ginettajoe said:
ian964 said:
As a guide, Scroth recommend that "Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle." In a car with no cage or harness bar, you'd normally run them to eye bolts on the rear parcel shelf or bulkhead, but can't do that in a hatch. The standard seat belts with a CG-Lock would probably be safer unless you have a cage or harness bar.
........ most rear parcel shelves and rear bulkheads possess absolutely no strength whatsoever, they would be the worst place you could mount belts!!! Think about it ......Edited by ian964 on Tuesday 16th March 07:24
MOUNTING 3 POINTS
One option is three points where the single tail is mounted to the bracket which holds the rear passengers shoulder strap. This is a 'known strong' point as it's where the OEM has mounted the rear passenger belt. You can often replace a bolt here with an eye bolt. This also has the advantage of holding the taill horizontal from the drivers shoulders. There are two main disadvantages, though i) the tail is quite long. ii) the tail will be mounted off centre, that is the "Y" shape from the drivers shoulders (3 point in this scenario) will skew to the right to reach the mounting point which comes over where the rear passengers right shoulder would be.
MOUNTING 4 POINTS
The best option is a cage, or failing that in this case the preferred option is a harness guide bar which mounts to the front seatbelt shoulder height adjusters at the top of the B pillar but with stays going down to the OEM belt anchor points at the base of the B pillar. Use with 4 point belts but don't wrap your belts round this like some fools, instead lay them over the bar and then route down to the lap belt mounting points for the rear passengers. These points have also been tested as safe, you can put eyebolts in here, there's a right and a left for the left and right drivers shoulder (4 points in this scenario), they are not too long and they are at the correct angle as the bar ensures this. Disadvantage is that to safely use the rear seats you must remove the belts but also the bar.
Since the OP doens't have back seats I think that a harness bar will be the best option. Also, as he's not using bucket seats with shoulder strap holes then a harness bar with loops on the bar (little narrow metal wires that stop the straps sliding laterally) will help hold the belts in line with his shoulders, else they risk slipping laterally at the wrong moment.
Hope that makes sense. It's what I would do in that car with no rear seats. Harness bar is the clear winner IMO.
One option is three points where the single tail is mounted to the bracket which holds the rear passengers shoulder strap. This is a 'known strong' point as it's where the OEM has mounted the rear passenger belt. You can often replace a bolt here with an eye bolt. This also has the advantage of holding the taill horizontal from the drivers shoulders. There are two main disadvantages, though i) the tail is quite long. ii) the tail will be mounted off centre, that is the "Y" shape from the drivers shoulders (3 point in this scenario) will skew to the right to reach the mounting point which comes over where the rear passengers right shoulder would be.
MOUNTING 4 POINTS
The best option is a cage, or failing that in this case the preferred option is a harness guide bar which mounts to the front seatbelt shoulder height adjusters at the top of the B pillar but with stays going down to the OEM belt anchor points at the base of the B pillar. Use with 4 point belts but don't wrap your belts round this like some fools, instead lay them over the bar and then route down to the lap belt mounting points for the rear passengers. These points have also been tested as safe, you can put eyebolts in here, there's a right and a left for the left and right drivers shoulder (4 points in this scenario), they are not too long and they are at the correct angle as the bar ensures this. Disadvantage is that to safely use the rear seats you must remove the belts but also the bar.
Since the OP doens't have back seats I think that a harness bar will be the best option. Also, as he's not using bucket seats with shoulder strap holes then a harness bar with loops on the bar (little narrow metal wires that stop the straps sliding laterally) will help hold the belts in line with his shoulders, else they risk slipping laterally at the wrong moment.
Hope that makes sense. It's what I would do in that car with no rear seats. Harness bar is the clear winner IMO.
In my opinion he'd be better of buying a CG lock and saving his spine and wallet. Half hearted attempts at saftey are fool hardy. Buckets harness cage all together or leave it as it left the factory. factory set up or cage and buckets etc are all desgined to work together. If you mismatch them you'll end up in bother if you have big off. Surprising how many people at trackdays think its a good idea though.
ian964 said:
ginettajoe said:
ian964 said:
As a guide, Scroth recommend that "Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle." In a car with no cage or harness bar, you'd normally run them to eye bolts on the rear parcel shelf or bulkhead, but can't do that in a hatch. The standard seat belts with a CG-Lock would probably be safer unless you have a cage or harness bar.
........ most rear parcel shelves and rear bulkheads possess absolutely no strength whatsoever, they would be the worst place you could mount belts!!! Think about it ......Edited by ian964 on Tuesday 16th March 07:24
ginettajoe said:
ian964 said:
ginettajoe said:
ian964 said:
As a guide, Scroth recommend that "Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle." In a car with no cage or harness bar, you'd normally run them to eye bolts on the rear parcel shelf or bulkhead, but can't do that in a hatch. The standard seat belts with a CG-Lock would probably be safer unless you have a cage or harness bar.
........ most rear parcel shelves and rear bulkheads possess absolutely no strength whatsoever, they would be the worst place you could mount belts!!! Think about it ......Edited by ian964 on Tuesday 16th March 07:24
Edited by tertius on Tuesday 16th March 11:07
tertius said:
ginettajoe said:
ian964 said:
ginettajoe said:
ian964 said:
As a guide, Scroth recommend that "Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle." In a car with no cage or harness bar, you'd normally run them to eye bolts on the rear parcel shelf or bulkhead, but can't do that in a hatch. The standard seat belts with a CG-Lock would probably be safer unless you have a cage or harness bar.
........ most rear parcel shelves and rear bulkheads possess absolutely no strength whatsoever, they would be the worst place you could mount belts!!! Think about it ......Edited by ian964 on Tuesday 16th March 07:24
Edited by tertius on Tuesday 16th March 11:07
In a car with no cage or harness bar, you'd normally run them to eye bolts on the rear parcel shelf or bulkhead
"Normally" you wouldn't!!! But then I can see where you are coming from, and should have recognised the clues!!
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