Redundancy advise needed please
Discussion
I work for a large public transport company and have done for 10+ years.
Last week our department were called in and advised that due to the economic climate our jobs were being cut
in a reorganistaion.
We were also told that our work would be absorbed into another newly created role.
Our HR manager informed us we could discuss a severance pay or other vacancies in the company.
The only vacancies on the list would mean taking a 50% paycut and no mention was made of the new roles where our
work was going to. We enquired with our union rep about the vacancies and he told us that
the vacancies were probably 'ringfenced' for other departments to apply for only however we have since found out that the three
new roles were interviewed and filled 3 months ago with no mention in the job description of the moving of our work to the new role.
Furthermore the interviews were confined to a small group of employees from two different departments and were never advertised on an
internal vacancy list. Had they been so we could have applied ourselves. We think that we should have the right to apply
for these jobs now. Our union rep is not a great source of help to be honest. Do you think we have a valid point to raise? I dont want to be forced into another job where i take such a massive paycut but dont want to leave either. It seems we are being given the crappest jobs and the best positins are being held back.
s.
Last week our department were called in and advised that due to the economic climate our jobs were being cut
in a reorganistaion.
We were also told that our work would be absorbed into another newly created role.
Our HR manager informed us we could discuss a severance pay or other vacancies in the company.
The only vacancies on the list would mean taking a 50% paycut and no mention was made of the new roles where our
work was going to. We enquired with our union rep about the vacancies and he told us that
the vacancies were probably 'ringfenced' for other departments to apply for only however we have since found out that the three
new roles were interviewed and filled 3 months ago with no mention in the job description of the moving of our work to the new role.
Furthermore the interviews were confined to a small group of employees from two different departments and were never advertised on an
internal vacancy list. Had they been so we could have applied ourselves. We think that we should have the right to apply
for these jobs now. Our union rep is not a great source of help to be honest. Do you think we have a valid point to raise? I dont want to be forced into another job where i take such a massive paycut but dont want to leave either. It seems we are being given the crappest jobs and the best positins are being held back.
s.
Its not at all clear from your post what advice you want, and indeed the answer will vary depending on many circumstances eg
1. How old are you and how long have you worked there? Often redundancy offers better opportunities if you are over 40 and/or have got a lot of years sevice in
2. A 50% gross pay cut does not mean a 50% net pay cut. You won't be paying as much tax and NI on a lower gross pay. If you have dependents, that might mean you can get various benefits.
I was in a similar sitiuation in 2004 when I came back from a weeks' lave to find that 40% of my job had been advertised externally without me being even told about it, let alone been consulted about it. This led to a couple of months of acrimony until my employer and I decided that our interests would both be better served by me clearing off. But I was over 50, had 24 years in, and the conditions of service said that I could draw a pension if made redundant after 50.
Best thing that ever happened to me. Never looked back
1. How old are you and how long have you worked there? Often redundancy offers better opportunities if you are over 40 and/or have got a lot of years sevice in
2. A 50% gross pay cut does not mean a 50% net pay cut. You won't be paying as much tax and NI on a lower gross pay. If you have dependents, that might mean you can get various benefits.
I was in a similar sitiuation in 2004 when I came back from a weeks' lave to find that 40% of my job had been advertised externally without me being even told about it, let alone been consulted about it. This led to a couple of months of acrimony until my employer and I decided that our interests would both be better served by me clearing off. But I was over 50, had 24 years in, and the conditions of service said that I could draw a pension if made redundant after 50.
Best thing that ever happened to me. Never looked back
sorry if it seems garbled.
To clarify i am 39 in a couple of weeks and have worked there 11 weeks.
I want to stay in employment but the options being given to me are limited in the way of vacancies on the internal list.
I want to be able to apply for the new posts that have been created that contains my role however they are not being offered as an option as they say they have been filled 3 months ago.
However when they were filled they were done in a back door way, no vacancy list and selected few applicants. I have the necessary skilsl to do the job.
I feel it was all done underhand and want the new roles put back on the list to give everyone a fair chance.
To clarify i am 39 in a couple of weeks and have worked there 11 weeks.
I want to stay in employment but the options being given to me are limited in the way of vacancies on the internal list.
I want to be able to apply for the new posts that have been created that contains my role however they are not being offered as an option as they say they have been filled 3 months ago.
However when they were filled they were done in a back door way, no vacancy list and selected few applicants. I have the necessary skilsl to do the job.
I feel it was all done underhand and want the new roles put back on the list to give everyone a fair chance.
I presume that you mean that you have 11 years service and not 11 weeks?
In a redundancy situation, the company has an obligation to offer your suitable alternative employment. This does not mean at the same pay rate that you currently receive. They should discuss any current vacancy that they have within the company, including at other sites. Some of the vacancies may demand skills that you do not currently possess but they should give you the opportunity to consider the roles and then provide reasonable support and training. There is also an obligation to let you try a new role and if it subsequently proves to be unsuitable, you can still take the redundancy.
In your case, the new roles created to encompass your duties in with other tasks do not appear to be current vacancies, in that the successful candidates have already been selected.
It doesn't sound as if the company has done anything wrong. They have planned to reorganise the business for economic reasons, put some of the steps in place to do this and then advised you of the potential redundancy of your position.
In a redundancy situation, the company has an obligation to offer your suitable alternative employment. This does not mean at the same pay rate that you currently receive. They should discuss any current vacancy that they have within the company, including at other sites. Some of the vacancies may demand skills that you do not currently possess but they should give you the opportunity to consider the roles and then provide reasonable support and training. There is also an obligation to let you try a new role and if it subsequently proves to be unsuitable, you can still take the redundancy.
In your case, the new roles created to encompass your duties in with other tasks do not appear to be current vacancies, in that the successful candidates have already been selected.
It doesn't sound as if the company has done anything wrong. They have planned to reorganise the business for economic reasons, put some of the steps in place to do this and then advised you of the potential redundancy of your position.
Sorry, i did mean 11 years.
But do you not think that the way the roles were filled some months ago was incorrectly done.
Applicants were hand picked when there were many other people throughout the company that could have done the job including myself.
If the jobs had been advertised for all i would have applied.
But do you not think that the way the roles were filled some months ago was incorrectly done.
Applicants were hand picked when there were many other people throughout the company that could have done the job including myself.
If the jobs had been advertised for all i would have applied.
The company can appoint who they like, change duties and roles, reorganise departments etc as long as they do not breach employment law.
Redundancies are always very difficult for a company and you cannot always share your medium and longer term plans with every member of staff.
I have sympathy with your situation but I really do believe that there is little that you can do to change things.
My suggestion to you would be to make the best of the situation, stay with the same employer and take a drop in salary unless the redundancy package is very good. Be aware that the jobs market is very thin in transport related industries at present, so it may be better to stay employed and wait until a better opportunity arises, perhaps with your current employer.
Redundancies are always very difficult for a company and you cannot always share your medium and longer term plans with every member of staff.
I have sympathy with your situation but I really do believe that there is little that you can do to change things.
My suggestion to you would be to make the best of the situation, stay with the same employer and take a drop in salary unless the redundancy package is very good. Be aware that the jobs market is very thin in transport related industries at present, so it may be better to stay employed and wait until a better opportunity arises, perhaps with your current employer.
dearboy said:
Stuff
Your work is being merged into another newly created role? Is that a number of staff roles being rolled into one? Basically, a company can do that sort of thing, it's as long as they don't recruit for your role directly. If it IS actually a cost cutting measure.If they recruited people three months ago to do much of your roles, then what were they doing until now in the company?? Have they been employed yet? If so, where? How is the split going i.e. is your work currently being passed out to them. You have those job descriptions?
The question is what do you think actually happened? And what are you looking for?
Do you know what severence package is being offered? 11 years service means just 11 weeks pay is required I am afraid.
The people that were employed for the new roles a few months ago actually applied thinking that the job was to do a certain role and were all given letters of confirmation confirming they were successful. They werent and still havent been given job descriptions after being given the letters.
In the reorganisation document that came out last week the new job did indeed include in the description the job they already applied for but also my role that they are cutting out. Two roles into one.
I know that they arent happy that they have been, if you like, conned into doing two jobs and obviously im not happy at my job disappearing.
I have in the past done both roles so i am easily able to do the job but was never given the chance to apply a few months ago as the jobs were never advertised as i stated. It seems that the manager has a few old faves amongst his staff that were invited for an interview for jobs the rest of us didnt know about until after the event.
All smells a bit fishy to me.
In the reorganisation document that came out last week the new job did indeed include in the description the job they already applied for but also my role that they are cutting out. Two roles into one.
I know that they arent happy that they have been, if you like, conned into doing two jobs and obviously im not happy at my job disappearing.
I have in the past done both roles so i am easily able to do the job but was never given the chance to apply a few months ago as the jobs were never advertised as i stated. It seems that the manager has a few old faves amongst his staff that were invited for an interview for jobs the rest of us didnt know about until after the event.
All smells a bit fishy to me.
dearboy said:
The people that were employed for the new roles a few months ago actually applied thinking that the job was to do a certain role and were all given letters of confirmation confirming they were successful. They werent and still havent been given job descriptions after being given the letters.
In the reorganisation document that came out last week the new job did indeed include in the description the job they already applied for but also my role that they are cutting out. Two roles into one.
I know that they arent happy that they have been, if you like, conned into doing two jobs and obviously im not happy at my job disappearing.
I have in the past done both roles so i am easily able to do the job but was never given the chance to apply a few months ago as the jobs were never advertised as i stated. It seems that the manager has a few old faves amongst his staff that were invited for an interview for jobs the rest of us didnt know about until after the event.
All smells a bit fishy to me.
If the new jobs' job descriptions contained your work at the time they were created, or if not, that you can show that this was the intention, then yes, the company should then have begun to consult with all affected individuals, including yourself. Be aware that the people who got the role might also have been affected too, i.e. their new roles might have also been at risk, hence the change in their roles to include these duties.In the reorganisation document that came out last week the new job did indeed include in the description the job they already applied for but also my role that they are cutting out. Two roles into one.
I know that they arent happy that they have been, if you like, conned into doing two jobs and obviously im not happy at my job disappearing.
I have in the past done both roles so i am easily able to do the job but was never given the chance to apply a few months ago as the jobs were never advertised as i stated. It seems that the manager has a few old faves amongst his staff that were invited for an interview for jobs the rest of us didnt know about until after the event.
All smells a bit fishy to me.
If this is the case, and you can show it, then the company may have breached its statutory duty to consult. In this situation, in addition to redundancy, you would be able to apply to Tribunal for what is called a protective award, which can be up to 3 months salary.
However, from the information here, it would appear that the new duties only appeared in their JDs later, in which case see below:
If they didn't contain your duties when created, then as others have said the company is on firmer ground, and might simply have been unaware of your ability to do the new combined role, or perhaps for good organisational reasons your role was unable to be combined in that way.
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