Employer References

[redtwin]

In the process of applying for a new job and I am asked to provide a reference from my current employer. Haven't come across this before and was wondering if anyone had any insight on what they were after.

My first thought is to give my line manager's details as I work with him on a daily basis, but other people have said to provide a contact within the HR department as they are the ones that deal with employee issues etc.

I am quite apprehensive about supplying either as my current employer will then know that I am looking for another job and things may get uncomfortable, especially if I am not successful and wind up having to stay where I am. Potential employer states that they will not contact anyone until a job offer is made, so would it be out of order to provide names and details of current manager or HR contact person without their prior knowledge?.

[FraserLFA]

I'd explain the situation. Most employers won't seek a reference from your most recent employer until a job offer is made. This tends to be if you're happy to provide references from previous employers to your current job. They'll generally seek a reference from your current employer once you have moved, just to check you've admitted anything and everything that interests them (police trouble, huge absences etc.)

This is what i understand of the situation anyway. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to correct me

[redtwin]

That is a good suggestion, except that the application is being made through a recruitment agency and it is impossible to speak to anyone there. I spent over 30 mins trying to get through to them by phone. The application was sent to me in Word format via e-mail and will be submitted in the same manner.

[FraserLFA]

Is it the agency seeking the reference then? to then be passed on to the employer? You may be able to get away with telling your current employer you're seeking weekend work or something through an agency for extra cash. That way they may still supply the reference without thinking too much about it.

[redtwin]

As I understand it, the agency is only providing the preliminary application process. Assessment and references etc will be done by the actual company.

Thanks for all your help, I think I will just give my manager's name and not tell him beforehand. I should imagine it is not unreasonable as he would be considered a company representative.

[TooLateForAName]

Is the job real? Lots of fake ads around and agents asking for references in order to hit them for roles

ring, ring
boss - morning, ACME Ltd, topman here.
agent - morning, I've got a couple of CV's here that you might be interested in
boss - why would I be interested?
agent - well, with PH'er Xyz quitting to work for the competition, you're going to need a replacement asap
...
...




(awaits agents denying that such things ever happen)

[singlecoil]

Do not offer current employer's reference until you have received a job offer, in writing.


Chances are that (as has been pointed out) that the agency is lying. This is something they do a lot. Ask me how I know.

[FraserLFA]

I work for an agency and have never heard of this happening before. Very interesting though. Shows the lengths some people go to i guess....

[Mandat]

TooLateForAName said:

Is the job real? Lots of fake ads around and agents asking for references in order to hit them for roles

ring, ring
boss - morning, ACME Ltd, topman here.
agent - morning, I've got a couple of CV's here that you might be interested in
boss - why would I be interested?
agent - well, with PH'er Xyz quitting to work for the competition, you're going to need a replacement asap
...
...




(awaits agents denying that such things ever happen)

This happened when I last moved jobs via an emplyment agent. After I had accepted the new job offer, the agent contacted my old employer to see if they could fill the vacancy that i had created.

[redtwin]

The job is legit, well as legit as I can determine anyway. It is civil service position and the website is a .gov.uk URL so doubt it is dodgy. Clicking through careers, vacancies etc brings you to the email address belonging to the recruitment agency that I presume is handling the preliminary application process.

My use of the term "agency" may have been misleading, but that is basically what they are. www.nrgplc.com if anyone is curious/suspicious.

I understand the reasoning behind not providing employer references until job offer has been received, but if I am not going to follow the application process as specifically instructed, then may as well not apply at all?.

I get the impression that if I try dictating what information I will provide and when I will provide it, my application will get circle filed anyway.

Edited by redtwin on Tuesday 12th January 23:37

[singlecoil]

redtwin said:

I get the impression that if I try dictating what information I will provide and when I will provide it, my application will get circle filed anyway.

Has anyone said you are going to get this job, though? Why are you so sure that the job is yours?

I personally would never let my current employers know I was looking for another job until I had a written offer of that job in my pocket.

[redtwin]

Not sure where you got the impression that I was sure of a job or even promised one?. The application hasn't even been submitted yet, I was simply trying to better understand the employer reference angle. If anything, I am at a disadvantage due to the nature of the position, the limited positions available (I registered interest 2 years ago and only now are they accepting applications) and the strong competition from potential applicants that are possibly more qualified than I am (a bit of "insider" info from someone familiar with the position). However, if I wait around for jobs that I am the most qualified for, I won't be going anywhere.

I do take your point about not letting current employer know I am job searching, but unfortunately I do not feel I am in a position to ignore the application's specific requests for information. I am sure I could leave bits out, but certainly that would put me at a disadvantage compared to the next applicant that has provided all that was asked for.

I would like to give myself the best possible chance and for me that means submitting a complete application providing all information that is requested.

[Pothole]

redtwin said:

Not sure where you got the impression that I was sure of a job or even promised one?. The application hasn't even been submitted yet, I was simply trying to better understand the employer reference angle. If anything, I am at a disadvantage due to the nature of the position, the limited positions available (I registered interest 2 years ago and only now are they accepting applications) and the strong competition from potential applicants that are possibly more qualified than I am (a bit of "insider" info from someone familiar with the position). However, if I wait around for jobs that I am the most qualified for, I won't be going anywhere.

I do take your point about not letting current employer know I am job searching, but unfortunately I do not feel I am in a position to ignore the application's specific requests for information. I am sure I could leave bits out, but certainly that would put me at a disadvantage compared to the next applicant that has provided all that was asked for.

I would like to give myself the best possible chance and for me that means submitting a complete application providing all information that is requested.

I'm not sure why you're bothered if your current employer knows you're looking...might prompt an interesting conversation leading to a pay rise or promotion, even. Why do people get stressed about this? Do they think the current boss is suddenly going to start being vindictive? In my experience, the new employer will rarely take up references until the offer stage, and many if not most, will ask you when you want them to contact people.

[wiggy001]

I would always give the details of someone in HR for a "professional reference from previous employer". This will simply state:

"xxx worked here as a xxx from dd/mm/yyyy to dd/mm/yyyy"

It will not contain much more info than that (maybe absences), and certainly no opinion of your performance.

If you give your manager's name, he will either pass the request to HR to do the above, or may provide a "personal" reference. Here he will be giving his opinion of you as an employee.

Sounds like they are asking for the former so just give an HR contact.

[redtwin]

"Why do people get stressed about this? Do they think the current boss is suddenly going to start being vindictive?"

Yes, past experiences have led me to feel this way. As you may have guessed I don't work in a polished, politically correct, corporate environment. If someone in a position of authority wants to, they can make life quite difficult. I don't mean dragging you out back and giving you a kicking or anything like that, but putting pressure on, making sure you get all the crap tasks no-one else wants to do, clock checking every toilet break etc. It has happened to me before and I have to be mindful of it happening again.

I am banking on no contact being made until a job is offered. Can't do anything about it now anyway, application has been submitted.

Thanks to all for the advice.

[Mojooo]

Pothole said:

redtwin said:

Not sure where you got the impression that I was sure of a job or even promised one?. The application hasn't even been submitted yet, I was simply trying to better understand the employer reference angle. If anything, I am at a disadvantage due to the nature of the position, the limited positions available (I registered interest 2 years ago and only now are they accepting applications) and the strong competition from potential applicants that are possibly more qualified than I am (a bit of "insider" info from someone familiar with the position). However, if I wait around for jobs that I am the most qualified for, I won't be going anywhere.

I do take your point about not letting current employer know I am job searching, but unfortunately I do not feel I am in a position to ignore the application's specific requests for information. I am sure I could leave bits out, but certainly that would put me at a disadvantage compared to the next applicant that has provided all that was asked for.

I would like to give myself the best possible chance and for me that means submitting a complete application providing all information that is requested.

I'm not sure why you're bothered if your current employer knows you're looking...might prompt an interesting conversation leading to a pay rise or promotion, even. Why do people get stressed about this? Do they think the current boss is suddenly going to start being vindictive? In my experience, the new employer will rarely take up references until the offer stage, and many if not most, will ask you when you want them to contact people.

Not a risk i would take on the boss getting vindictive. if i made it clear i was wanting to leave my work i can certainly see atitudes changing towards me - not work the risk really.

[e3jcr]

If you have any friends or family with their own business, or in a position of authority, approach them and ask if they would be prepared to say you worked there, and give a reference. That way you are in control of the situation, if there is any dodgy goings on

Edited by e3jcr on Sunday 17th January 01:45

[Pothole]

e3jcr said:

If you have any friends or family with their own business, or in a position of authority, approach them and ask if they would be prepared to say you worked there, and give a reference. That way you are in control of the situation, if there is any dodgy goings on

Edited by e3jcr on Sunday 17th January 01:45

good plan, lie about your references.