Timeframe for Disciplinary Procedures?
Discussion
I am after any input on anyone knowledgeable on the in’s and out of employment/disciplinary procedures, and can advise:
A friend (yes, not me) has had a Disciplinary brought against them for misconduct, which has been dragging out, and it strikes me as there has to be guidelines on how an employer must carry it out?
The employer in question is the NHS. They were first notified of the Disciplinary in Feb, and the meeting was held well over a month later (I will find the accurate timescales if required, but around March/April). A union rep contacted leading up to the meeting.
The claim brought against them was related to mileage claims. A complaint was made of bulling against the manager who called the action, which is apparently commonplace in the department. Many people have resigned, and been of on stress leave relating to this (apparently).
One of the mileage claims relates to a patient visit, which the medical records of the visit/patient were later destroyed at the instruction of the manager in question, so it now looks like a false claim was made. During the investigation, it was found that mileage was less than that submitted during the monthly periods. I don't know any instances were proven, apart from the first one mentioned.
We are now in May, nothing has been resolved, nor has any action been taken, which is doing nothing for their sanity, and the stress levels at work. The union rep is advising to them take time of sick, for stress, to backup the case of bulling (which others in the department have done in the past).
I suspect the manager is taking the piss on how they are carrying this out?
It is not in their interest to dismiss my friend, as they are currently understaffed, and will be unable to meet their targets (borderline at the moment), in areas such as surgery, where no one else is skilled/qualified in the department to perform certain procedures, and NHS bureaucracy ensures that hiring anyone is a slow drawn out process.
I found this on DirectGov:
http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1041
A friend (yes, not me) has had a Disciplinary brought against them for misconduct, which has been dragging out, and it strikes me as there has to be guidelines on how an employer must carry it out?
The employer in question is the NHS. They were first notified of the Disciplinary in Feb, and the meeting was held well over a month later (I will find the accurate timescales if required, but around March/April). A union rep contacted leading up to the meeting.
The claim brought against them was related to mileage claims. A complaint was made of bulling against the manager who called the action, which is apparently commonplace in the department. Many people have resigned, and been of on stress leave relating to this (apparently).
One of the mileage claims relates to a patient visit, which the medical records of the visit/patient were later destroyed at the instruction of the manager in question, so it now looks like a false claim was made. During the investigation, it was found that mileage was less than that submitted during the monthly periods. I don't know any instances were proven, apart from the first one mentioned.
We are now in May, nothing has been resolved, nor has any action been taken, which is doing nothing for their sanity, and the stress levels at work. The union rep is advising to them take time of sick, for stress, to backup the case of bulling (which others in the department have done in the past).
I suspect the manager is taking the piss on how they are carrying this out?
It is not in their interest to dismiss my friend, as they are currently understaffed, and will be unable to meet their targets (borderline at the moment), in areas such as surgery, where no one else is skilled/qualified in the department to perform certain procedures, and NHS bureaucracy ensures that hiring anyone is a slow drawn out process.
I found this on DirectGov:
http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1041
ACAS CODE OF PRACTICE - DISCIPLINARY AND GRIEVANCE PROCEDURES said:
whenever a disciplinary or grievance process is being followed
it is important to deal with issues fairly. There are a number of elements to
this:
• Employers and employees should raise and deal with issues promptly and should not unreasonably delay meetings, decisions or confirmation of those decisions.
• Employers and employees should act consistently.
• Employers should carry out any necessary investigations, to establish
the facts of the case.
• Employers should inform employees of the basis of the problem and
give them an opportunity to put their case in response before any
decisions are made.
• Employers should allow employees to be accompanied at any formal
disciplinary or grievance meeting.
• Employers should allow an employee to appeal against any formal
decision made.
it is important to deal with issues fairly. There are a number of elements to
this:
• Employers and employees should raise and deal with issues promptly and should not unreasonably delay meetings, decisions or confirmation of those decisions.
• Employers and employees should act consistently.
• Employers should carry out any necessary investigations, to establish
the facts of the case.
• Employers should inform employees of the basis of the problem and
give them an opportunity to put their case in response before any
decisions are made.
• Employers should allow employees to be accompanied at any formal
disciplinary or grievance meeting.
• Employers should allow an employee to appeal against any formal
decision made.
I don't have the professional knowledge to be able to go into specifics about this but would suggest that your friend documents absolutely everything; times, dates, comments made, timelines suggested etc, etc since the issue first started. They should also document other similar cases they are aware of from recent times to see if a pattern can be identified regarding staff leaving after certain actions were taken against them. There have been cases in the press about NHS departments rewarding "managers" for reducing costs by making staff miserable enough to resign either through forms of bullying or intimidating them via disciplinary measures that wouldn't stand up if challenged by someone aware enough of their rights to do so. Google is your friend here so try and find a few examples.
If the issue goes as far as a tribunal your friend will need a "diary" of events and issues to support their claim as far as possible. If the employer has stepped outside of the guidelines for timescales on issue such as this expect the tribunal team to give them short shrift.
If the issue goes as far as a tribunal your friend will need a "diary" of events and issues to support their claim as far as possible. If the employer has stepped outside of the guidelines for timescales on issue such as this expect the tribunal team to give them short shrift.
It is usually in the employee's handbook for private companies.
Have a look here for NHS employers
http://www.nhsemployers.org/EMPLOYMENTPOLICYANDPRA...
Your friend could always raise a grievance due to this delay causing unneccessary stress. Might also be a good idea to get your friend to visit the CAB ( Citizen's advice bureau) as they will have an employment lawyer/expert for free advice.
Have a look here for NHS employers
http://www.nhsemployers.org/EMPLOYMENTPOLICYANDPRA...
Your friend could always raise a grievance due to this delay causing unneccessary stress. Might also be a good idea to get your friend to visit the CAB ( Citizen's advice bureau) as they will have an employment lawyer/expert for free advice.
Each NHS Trust should have a policy which is usually available on the trust website, but at worst should be provided by HR.
If the manager has ordered the destruction of patient records, which are legal documents, then that is an extremely serious allegation.
Union should be able to help with this - need to contact the local ASSR or if there isn't one go straight to the industrial relations department of the union.
If the manager has ordered the destruction of patient records, which are legal documents, then that is an extremely serious allegation.
Union should be able to help with this - need to contact the local ASSR or if there isn't one go straight to the industrial relations department of the union.
I work in the field. I agree with everything everyone's posted so far. The Acas website is not particularly user friendly, but www.direct.gov.uk and www.businesslink.gov.uk are both very good. Business Link is aimed at employers but has a bit more detail than Direct Gov.
Is your friend a member of the union? Union support with this kind of situation can be very useful. He could consider joining if they will agree to assist him with an ongoing disciplinary process. (Some won't represent you in something that has started before you joined, and others won't represent you for 3 or 6 months after you join).
Unfortunately I gather the NHS disciplinary process can be a bit like this. See if you can find out out if this time lag is normal for someone in your area.
Hope that helps.
Is your friend a member of the union? Union support with this kind of situation can be very useful. He could consider joining if they will agree to assist him with an ongoing disciplinary process. (Some won't represent you in something that has started before you joined, and others won't represent you for 3 or 6 months after you join).
Unfortunately I gather the NHS disciplinary process can be a bit like this. See if you can find out out if this time lag is normal for someone in your area.
Hope that helps.
Document everything, even conversations made, put it all on a timeline. The Trust should have a Disp Policy document, make sure the policy is being followed to the letter. Get help from the Union rep, in my experience, some NHS HR bods do not have a lot of knowledge and often make errors when carrying out investigations.
Use the freedom of Information Act to obtain, things like, details of others that have been disciplined and for what reason etc, or to prove a consistant approch has been followed, useful if you intend to take action after the process has finished. Keep an offsite log of all the evidence, incase they suspend your friend and walk them off site.
Use the freedom of Information Act to obtain, things like, details of others that have been disciplined and for what reason etc, or to prove a consistant approch has been followed, useful if you intend to take action after the process has finished. Keep an offsite log of all the evidence, incase they suspend your friend and walk them off site.
As said above your friend should document everything, including any instance where there may be a 3rd party witness.
If the manager has destroyed records relating to a patient there will be a business process / guide as to when and how this could be done (proving somethiing may be difficult though). Any breach of that nature would be suspicious and may well cause issues for the manager if brought to HR or the CFMS or whichever body investigates such matters these days.
It is vital to know and understand what the HR processes are for that organisation, they should have timeframes in them, any breach of their own process would be viewed dimly by ACAS should it get that far. Further, it should be clear how your friend was supposed to know and understand such things (e.g. are paper copies signed for, is it pointed out they are on the intranet, the staff handbook etc).
A competent Union official should be able to guide her.
If the manager has destroyed records relating to a patient there will be a business process / guide as to when and how this could be done (proving somethiing may be difficult though). Any breach of that nature would be suspicious and may well cause issues for the manager if brought to HR or the CFMS or whichever body investigates such matters these days.
It is vital to know and understand what the HR processes are for that organisation, they should have timeframes in them, any breach of their own process would be viewed dimly by ACAS should it get that far. Further, it should be clear how your friend was supposed to know and understand such things (e.g. are paper copies signed for, is it pointed out they are on the intranet, the staff handbook etc).
A competent Union official should be able to guide her.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff