TUPE Being rushed through

[sixpotter]

Hi people,

Been a regular browser on here for many moons but only just set a profile up.

Got a call on holiday (27th May, 1st day!!) saying I was to be TUPE'd over to our maintenance company (Been in a in-house facilities role for 4.5 years)

Returned to work yesterday to a letter saying there will be three redundancies out of the 15 of us and had my first consultation as soon as I walked in the door.

I then had to attend a second one 45 mins later and was told I have to be re interviewed by my current employer for a job with the new company? I read that TUPE transfers should not be interviewed is this correct?

Also what time frames from first notice to transfer as they want this done and 3 of us gone by 1st July with the rest of us signed over to the new company by this date.

Also an interesting fact, our head of department who is pushing all this through so fast ..turns out his brother in law has a large stake in the outsourced company.

I currently work in house for a very large insurance company. This has all been kept very quiet within the company whereas when they culled some IT staff it was all published on our intranet... not even some real key players knew about this happening when I told them.

Do I have any rights to slow all this down and get advice?

Edited by sixpotter on Friday 4th June 09:14

[Puggit]

I'm no expert - but I would have thought having your first consultation as you walked in from holiday was unfair...

[edc]

You could submit a formal grievance and state your objections.

If it gets this far, a tribunal will examine whether a fair redundancy process has been carried out. This will include whether there was fair and meaningful consultation.

[steinhold]

Hi,

Have been through TUPE last year, lots of hard and fast regulations, advise you to contact ACAS free advice on the telephone, Have you been given a consultation document? go online and search for statute guidelines re-TUPE.
New employer can NOT pick and choose staff to be transfered, it's all or nothing.
Find out as much as you can about TUPE and your own work situation, before you challenge anything !
Often when staff are transfered the first thing your new company does it to try to get you off your old contract, that way you loose all your old benifits/entitlements.
Nobody should be made redundant as a direct result of the TUPE itself.
Staff subject to TUPE, MUST have an appointed representative during the consultative period.
GOOD LUCK
not all TUPE's are a bad thing
Graham.

[sixpotter]

Thanks for the replies, this has now turned in to redundancy consultation through a rather dodgy selection process which has left the worst of the department being TUPE'd over and the hard workers redundant..

Shocking. Now how to appeal this weak decision and get some kind of compromise agreement or dare I say it ET. Thing is I do not want my job back now this has got to the point of no return.

If I win an appeal can they realistically tell the 12 of 15 people with 'safe' jobs that they are no longer safe and need another interview or is my likely response going to be a compromise agreeement?

[Muzzer]

sixpotter said:

Returned to work yesterday to a letter saying there will be three redundancies out of the 15 of us and had my first consultation as soon as I walked in the door.

Not ideal but fairly unavoidable for them if you were on holiday

sixpotter said:

I then had to attend a second one 45 mins later and was told I have to be re interviewed by my current employer for a job with the new company? I read that TUPE transfers should not be interviewed is this correct?

You shouldn't have to interview for your own job. You already have a job, it's just being transferred to a new employer (under your old terms)

sixpotter said:

Also what time frames from first notice to transfer as they want this done and 3 of us gone by 1st July with the rest of us signed over to the new company by this date.

A consultation period for fewer than 20 members of staff does not have a stipulated time period. It just has to be a 'meaningful' consultation period. This generally means a month from letting you know you're being TUPE'd to the transfer point. It can be less though....

sixpotter said:

Do I have any rights to slow all this down and get advice?

You can get advice, but you can't slow it down if they've given you meaningful consultation

Unfortunately, your being on holiday for a week of the consultation period does not mean that you can delay it.

I'd investigate more into them 'interviewing' you though.

They can do a redundancy matrix to decide who is made redundant and who stays, which you have a right to see. There should be no reason to 'interview' you though....

[steinhold]

sixpotter said:

Thanks for the replies, this has now turned in to redundancy consultation through a rather dodgy selection process which has left the worst of the department being TUPE'd over and the hard workers redundant..

Shocking. Now how to appeal this weak decision and get some kind of compromise agreement or dare I say it ET. Thing is I do not want my job back now this has got to the point of no return.

If I win an appeal can they realistically tell the 12 of 15 people with 'safe' jobs that they are no longer safe and need another interview or is my likely response going to be a compromise agreeement?

Hi,
I cant see how your employer can begin a TUPE consultation process and at the same time have a redundancy consultation. Talk to ACAS fast
Are you all part of the same department or spcificly for TUPE, a seperate organisational entity.
As I stated above if you are all members of the same dept then all those members of staff must be transfered together, redundancy is not part of the TUPE process.
some staff can be asked to stay with the old company IF thet have a dual departmental role.
It is also possible for TUPE transfered staff to be made redundant on the first day following transfer.
A consultative document should clearly outline all the salient facts and intentions of the transfer and the intentions of the new employer, you must be given a copy of this, have you had a representative appointed yet?
If you dont get answers then you may have to begin a greivance before its to late.

Do not depend on your work mates to act for you,speak on your behalf ect, they may well have an agenda. Talk to them all, but do what is best for you and your interests.

[johnfm]

I would contact ACAS or an independent employment law specialist.

TUPE is probably too intricate in the 'grey areas' for you to get meaningful advice on a forum.

I expect an ET will find you have been unfairly dismissed. You will get a payout.

I would be more interested in the related party transaction. Unfortunately, unless your company or the buyer is a listed company, it is unlikely that your head of department or the brother in law are breaking any laws.

[sixpotter]

ACAS and solicitors contacted, both think I have a case to appeal or go to an ET. They are saying my selection process wasn't fair due to it being solely based on a 30 min interview and points scoring from the answers rather than taking into account any previous credits like sick days, performance etc.

Sounds like a battle to me which I can't deal with. How much am I looking at for a solicitor to fight an ET on my behalf?

[edc]

sixpotter said:

ACAS and solicitors contacted, both think I have a case to appeal or go to an ET. They are saying my selection process wasn't fair due to it being solely based on a 30 min interview and points scoring from the answers rather than taking into account any previous credits like sick days, performance etc.

Sounds like a battle to me which I can't deal with. How much am I looking at for a solicitor to fight an ET on my behalf?

Building a case solely on the scoring looks potentially flaky to me. By and large as long as the process, is right, the decision output is not normally challenged by an ET. If the scoring criteria items theselves are manifestly unfair or introduce an element of discrimination then the ET would be interested. But, there is no compulsion to take into account sick days, appraisal ratings etc although these are commonly used scoring criteria. A fair process would include sufficient and reasonable consultation, written notificatons, right to accompaniment etc.

If the 'interview' was carried out with all at risk and the decisions made based on the same information gleaned / same questions asked then an ET might be happy enough with this.

[Muzzer]

sixpotter said:

ACAS and solicitors contacted, both think I have a case to appeal or go to an ET. They are saying my selection process wasn't fair due to it being solely based on a 30 min interview and points scoring from the answers rather than taking into account any previous credits like sick days, performance etc.

Sounds like a battle to me which I can't deal with. How much am I looking at for a solicitor to fight an ET on my behalf?

So your interview was part of their redundancy selection process then?

ACAS lawyers IME tend to tell people what they want to hear but it may be worth pursuing with them if no win no fee.

Be careful if you're in a tight-knit industry that likes to talk though. You could be (unfairly) black-balled for pursuing this.

I wouldn't put your own money into a lawyer for an ET unless your case is cast-iron and under no circumstances should you represent yourself....

[Halb]

steinhold said:

i,
I cant see how your employer can begin a TUPE consultation process and at the same time have a redundancy consultation. Talk to ACAS fast

Quite. when I was TUPEd last year I thought it was explained to us that there had to be some time period before 'the expected' but never mooted redundancies happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Undertaki...
My own redundancy happened just over one year later

[sixpotter]

Well I found a security guard job local to me to get me out the poop so thought I would just take the redundancy and bank it.

Should I have been left with nothing I would have had to pursued in court. Luckily this didn't have to happen.

Thanks for all the advice.

Now to get my head around working nights!