being made redundant. just general advise..
Discussion
Hello P.Hr's
I have recently been put at risk of redundancy after 4 years of employment, my last day will be 1st sept. the company i work for are sending my job to our Birmingham office, (i am in wiltshire)
I have been told i will need to go to birmingham for 2 weeks to train the new guy my job.
for a start, i cant afford 2 weeks in hotels & meals and trains up front.. even though my employer has said i can claim it all back via expenses after.
(it will cost a lot, 2 weeks will add up and i dont have that sort of money lying around)
secondly i see no benifit in this for me.. away from my wife and home for 2 weeks, as well as my evenings taken up sat in a hotel.
Does anyone know where i stand with saying 'i dont want to go' or am i entitled to ask for a premium rate for the time i am up there.. after all it isnt in my contract of employment.
Cheers guys. appriciate your thoughts, or if anyone has experienced similar.
I have recently been put at risk of redundancy after 4 years of employment, my last day will be 1st sept. the company i work for are sending my job to our Birmingham office, (i am in wiltshire)
I have been told i will need to go to birmingham for 2 weeks to train the new guy my job.
for a start, i cant afford 2 weeks in hotels & meals and trains up front.. even though my employer has said i can claim it all back via expenses after.
(it will cost a lot, 2 weeks will add up and i dont have that sort of money lying around)
secondly i see no benifit in this for me.. away from my wife and home for 2 weeks, as well as my evenings taken up sat in a hotel.
Does anyone know where i stand with saying 'i dont want to go' or am i entitled to ask for a premium rate for the time i am up there.. after all it isnt in my contract of employment.
Cheers guys. appriciate your thoughts, or if anyone has experienced similar.
I promise this isn't a piss take but when you're sorting out your CV for new jobs please please spell check it and get it proof read by a couple of people. 
_________
i'd tell them to arrange your travel and accomodation and travel in advance. Any self respecting company will be able to do this.
Expenses for travel and accomodation are a piss take at the best of times in this situation they can fvck off.
Good luck finding a new job.
_________
i'd tell them to arrange your travel and accomodation and travel in advance. Any self respecting company will be able to do this.
Expenses for travel and accomodation are a piss take at the best of times in this situation they can fvck off.
Good luck finding a new job.
Are they giving you a good redundancy package or just what you are contractually entitled too? i.e. is there anything they can take off you for not going.
If they are then you probably have to play ball, otherwise I would simply refuse.
If you have to go I would simply tell them that you cannot afford to cover the cost up front. They can't make you spend money you don't have.
If they are then you probably have to play ball, otherwise I would simply refuse.
If you have to go I would simply tell them that you cannot afford to cover the cost up front. They can't make you spend money you don't have.
R66STU said:
Hello P.Hr's
I have recently been put at risk of redundancy after 4 years of employment, my last day will be 1st sept. the company i work for are sending my job to our Birmingham office, (i am in wiltshire)
I have been told i will need to go to birmingham for 2 weeks to train the new guy my job.
for a start, i cant afford 2 weeks in hotels & meals and trains up front.. even though my employer has said i can claim it all back via expenses after.
(it will cost a lot, 2 weeks will add up and i dont have that sort of money lying around)
secondly i see no benifit in this for me.. away from my wife and home for 2 weeks, as well as my evenings taken up sat in a hotel.
Does anyone know where i stand with saying 'i dont want to go' or am i entitled to ask for a premium rate for the time i am up there.. after all it isnt in my contract of employment.
Cheers guys. appriciate your thoughts, or if anyone has experienced similar.
Firstly, I feel for you. It happened to me 18 months ago. Hope it works out. It was the best thing that happened to me, and sometimes it can be a good thing.I have recently been put at risk of redundancy after 4 years of employment, my last day will be 1st sept. the company i work for are sending my job to our Birmingham office, (i am in wiltshire)
I have been told i will need to go to birmingham for 2 weeks to train the new guy my job.
for a start, i cant afford 2 weeks in hotels & meals and trains up front.. even though my employer has said i can claim it all back via expenses after.
(it will cost a lot, 2 weeks will add up and i dont have that sort of money lying around)
secondly i see no benifit in this for me.. away from my wife and home for 2 weeks, as well as my evenings taken up sat in a hotel.
Does anyone know where i stand with saying 'i dont want to go' or am i entitled to ask for a premium rate for the time i am up there.. after all it isnt in my contract of employment.
Cheers guys. appriciate your thoughts, or if anyone has experienced similar.
Is the guy you're training going to be doing the same job as you're doing now, with the same job title? I only ask because it should be the role they're making redundant, and not you personally.
As above. They really are taking the piss. If they persist ask them where in your Job Description it states your responsibility to do this. It won't.
If they continue, have a formal meeting with HR present and inform them that you find the request insensitive and humiliating. Inform them formally that you will not be going and ask them to stop pestering you. Mention the word stress, lots.
If they continue further go sick, with said stress, and use the time for your new job front. In fact, just go off sick and start looking for a job - unless you have a terrible sickness record they would not be able to terminate you within a three month notive period. You owe them nothing, remember that. It is time to be selfish. You need to find a new job - you not being at your desk will not bring the firm to it's knees.
If you really want to piss them off tell them that you will happily train the new chap in your current office, as it must be equipped to do the tasks of your job, so there is no reason why this would not work. Then go sick on the day he arrives and stay sick until he is gone.
Now, you might be thinking 'but what about my references?' and the answer to that is that any large firm (and yours sounds like one) will respond to a reference request simply with the dates of your employment, your title on leaving, and perhaps a note that says 'we have no reason to distrust this man'. On that note, pull a trusted senior manager in your department to one side and ask them, as a favour which will help you in a tough employment market, to draft out a personal recommendation and to e-mail it to you as a pdf.
Remember - they don't care about you, you should not care about them. Good luck with the hunt!
If they continue, have a formal meeting with HR present and inform them that you find the request insensitive and humiliating. Inform them formally that you will not be going and ask them to stop pestering you. Mention the word stress, lots.
If they continue further go sick, with said stress, and use the time for your new job front. In fact, just go off sick and start looking for a job - unless you have a terrible sickness record they would not be able to terminate you within a three month notive period. You owe them nothing, remember that. It is time to be selfish. You need to find a new job - you not being at your desk will not bring the firm to it's knees.
If you really want to piss them off tell them that you will happily train the new chap in your current office, as it must be equipped to do the tasks of your job, so there is no reason why this would not work. Then go sick on the day he arrives and stay sick until he is gone.
Now, you might be thinking 'but what about my references?' and the answer to that is that any large firm (and yours sounds like one) will respond to a reference request simply with the dates of your employment, your title on leaving, and perhaps a note that says 'we have no reason to distrust this man'. On that note, pull a trusted senior manager in your department to one side and ask them, as a favour which will help you in a tough employment market, to draft out a personal recommendation and to e-mail it to you as a pdf.
Remember - they don't care about you, you should not care about them. Good luck with the hunt!
Edited by Hitch78 on Tuesday 8th June 17:17
This is complicated - if you are getting anything beyond the legal minimum redundancy they I think you'll have to suck it up - maybe have a word about pre-paying the expenses, but thats all you can do.
If they are just giving you the basic then tell them to FO unless you think they are bitter enough to give a bad reference and/or its a tight-knit industry.
As for bad reference they have to be careful also - if they say anything that is untrue and you can prove otherwise (i.e. performance review notes etc) then they can drop themselves in the s
t and end up paying you a fat wedge - this is the reason many big companies will only give a factual reference (i.e. dates of employment/position/number of days sick etc - no opinion on performance).
Also check you contract - is there any talk of you being obliged to travel when necessary?
Finally, as others have alluded to - if this new person basically has your job elsewhere they may have acted illegally.
If they are just giving you the basic then tell them to FO unless you think they are bitter enough to give a bad reference and/or its a tight-knit industry.
As for bad reference they have to be careful also - if they say anything that is untrue and you can prove otherwise (i.e. performance review notes etc) then they can drop themselves in the s
t and end up paying you a fat wedge - this is the reason many big companies will only give a factual reference (i.e. dates of employment/position/number of days sick etc - no opinion on performance).Also check you contract - is there any talk of you being obliged to travel when necessary?
Finally, as others have alluded to - if this new person basically has your job elsewhere they may have acted illegally.
thanks for all your comments guys. the company is doing very well. infact just had its best year. its a hudge blue chip company and many of you no doubt have their services in your homes.
i think i am going to refuse to go unless all expenses are paid and its also made 'worth my while' i will then see what they come back with. i dont have that much to loose.
i appriciate the replys and its given me somthing to think about.
i think i am going to refuse to go unless all expenses are paid and its also made 'worth my while' i will then see what they come back with. i dont have that much to loose.
i appriciate the replys and its given me somthing to think about.
R66STU said:
thanks for all your comments guys. the company is doing very well. infact just had its best year. its a hudge blue chip company and many of you no doubt have their services in your homes.
i think i am going to refuse to go unless all expenses are paid and its also made 'worth my while' i will then see what they come back with. i dont have that much to loose.
i appriciate the replys and its given me somthing to think about.
If this is your choice then make sure you structure your request. Tell them you want the hotel (inc. breakfast!) booked and paid for in advance and a hire car for the duration, again paid in advance. This at least removes the major costs from your expediture. Tell them that instead of claiming for evening meals and incidentals that you want a flat daily allowance (known as a per diem) of 35quid. This is a pretty standard procedure and a standard amount.i think i am going to refuse to go unless all expenses are paid and its also made 'worth my while' i will then see what they come back with. i dont have that much to loose.
i appriciate the replys and its given me somthing to think about.
If you are going to ask for extra wedge then tell them exactly what you want, per day or week. Only you will know what is appropriate.
Last point - put it all in a letter and give it to them ASAP. Hopefully they'll see it is not worth it and stop bothering you.
I would still go sick though, or at least use half of my days to search and apply for jobs.
Plus, you need to consider what you will do if, during a short three month notice period, you're going to be away from home. How will you go to an interview in your area if you are in brum...
Why cant your employer pre-pay for the hotel and train (or have it billed back to them on invoice)?
As for meals, well a few hundred quid petty cash will sort that.
If they dont do it, they dont trust you, so why should you trust them.
I wouldnt bother. What can they do if you dont?
If they force it, call sick and get friendly with your doctor. reality is there is nothing they can do.
As for meals, well a few hundred quid petty cash will sort that.
If they dont do it, they dont trust you, so why should you trust them.
I wouldnt bother. What can they do if you dont?
If they force it, call sick and get friendly with your doctor. reality is there is nothing they can do.
Please ignore all the advice to "go sick". You can resolve this without dishonesty ( and therefore risk).
It is standard procedure in large companies for people to pay their expenses and then claim them back at a later date. Just tell your employer that you cannot afford to pay for hotels etc. They will probably find a way around their system and book them for you.
Does your contract say that they can ask you to work at different locations. If it doesn't, then you should ask about an "away from home" allowance. Something around £30 to £50 per day would seem reasonable to me.
Hopefully you will find another job before the problem arises.
Don
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It is standard procedure in large companies for people to pay their expenses and then claim them back at a later date. Just tell your employer that you cannot afford to pay for hotels etc. They will probably find a way around their system and book them for you.
Does your contract say that they can ask you to work at different locations. If it doesn't, then you should ask about an "away from home" allowance. Something around £30 to £50 per day would seem reasonable to me.
Hopefully you will find another job before the problem arises.
Don
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