Paid instead of taking holiday - boss says it is illegal ...
Discussion
Our company was bought in May this year (2010). The contract I have which was given to me by my old boss said I get 25 holiday days a year but that I can be paid for up to 10 of those if I choose not to take them.
So for the past few years I have kept 10 days back and been paid. But then we were bought as I said. Our year runs from end of March until April.
The new contract distributed by our new boss which I would guess comes into being as soon as we sign it, makes no mention fo this being paid for up to 10 days. When quizzed on it he said it was illegal to incentivise people not to take holiday.
So I might have four weeks holiday to take still before end of March ...
But as this is *mid-year* is he allowed to implement this half way through and is it illegal as he says.
So for the past few years I have kept 10 days back and been paid. But then we were bought as I said. Our year runs from end of March until April.
The new contract distributed by our new boss which I would guess comes into being as soon as we sign it, makes no mention fo this being paid for up to 10 days. When quizzed on it he said it was illegal to incentivise people not to take holiday.
So I might have four weeks holiday to take still before end of March ...
But as this is *mid-year* is he allowed to implement this half way through and is it illegal as he says.
Firstly, don't go signing any new contracts unless it's in your interests too. Under TUPE you must be allowed continued employment under the same terms you have enjoyed prior to the transfer of your employment or purchase of your employer. There are a few exceptions but from what you've said I'd be surprised if they applied in this case.
Secondly you cannot sell your statutory holiday back to the company (28 including bank holidays per year pro rata IIRC). If your employer gives you more then the statutory minimum of holidays then you can take payment in lieu but not for the minimum.
So if you get your bank holidays on top of your 25 days holiday then they can pay you for 5 of those days (entirely at their discretion but if the original contract says you can sell back 10 days then I'd expect that you'd be successful in claiming 5 of them). If your 25 days holiday includes bank holidays then you should chase up the extra 3 days!
Of course please take this as very rough guidance from experience, take proper advice if you plan to take things further!
Secondly you cannot sell your statutory holiday back to the company (28 including bank holidays per year pro rata IIRC). If your employer gives you more then the statutory minimum of holidays then you can take payment in lieu but not for the minimum.
So if you get your bank holidays on top of your 25 days holiday then they can pay you for 5 of those days (entirely at their discretion but if the original contract says you can sell back 10 days then I'd expect that you'd be successful in claiming 5 of them). If your 25 days holiday includes bank holidays then you should chase up the extra 3 days!
Of course please take this as very rough guidance from experience, take proper advice if you plan to take things further!
Edited by rpguk on Thursday 30th December 14:58
According to http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/T...
ETA: the statutory minimum includes public holidays, which I'm guessing you're excluding from your entitlement in the OP?
gov website said:
Payment in lieu for holiday or 'buying out'
You are not allowed to exchange any untaken statutory holiday entitlement for pay. You must take all of your statutory holiday entitlement each year
so it appears your new boss is correct, since you want to take pay for part of your statutory holiday entitlement. Statutory minimum is 28 days for a full time 5 day a week job.You are not allowed to exchange any untaken statutory holiday entitlement for pay. You must take all of your statutory holiday entitlement each year
ETA: the statutory minimum includes public holidays, which I'm guessing you're excluding from your entitlement in the OP?
Edited by MrsMiggins on Thursday 30th December 14:57
The rules about 'cashing in' changed - I think April 2010. If not it was 2009. I'm not totally up on it - but basically its tighter on insisting you have your minimum 20 day entitlement - anything above that is still possible if you are lucky enough to have such a generous package. We had a couple of guys who we 'sent home' before Xmas to use up entitlement that they were hoping to save / cash, as in previous years. They had been warned earlier.
And what the other poster said about TUPE - these are your rights - although often I'm sure pressure is put upon the employee to do what is 'required'. My mate spent years on a council contract after moving to Capita then finally caved for a hard fought pay rise. Of course now he is hoping to go back to the council as Capita are going as part of the cost saving programme, rather than the other option
.
And what the other poster said about TUPE - these are your rights - although often I'm sure pressure is put upon the employee to do what is 'required'. My mate spent years on a council contract after moving to Capita then finally caved for a hard fought pay rise. Of course now he is hoping to go back to the council as Capita are going as part of the cost saving programme, rather than the other option
.MrsMiggins said:
Statutory minimum is 28 days for a full time 5 day a week job.
Slightly off topic, but that's interesting. How long has it been law? The reason I ask is that back in 2002, for a while at least, I worked for a company that decided the statutory minimum was 20 days (as it was), but that it included bank holidays. So in effect, we got only 12 days holiday per year.This was a large multi-national, turnover approx 5 billion, so not some back street employer trying it on. Mind you, I did have an almighty fight to recover wages owed to me once I'd left.
Super Slo Mo said:
MrsMiggins said:
Statutory minimum is 28 days for a full time 5 day a week job.
Slightly off topic, but that's interesting. How long has it been law? The reason I ask is that back in 2002, for a while at least, I worked for a company that decided the statutory minimum was 20 days (as it was), but that it included bank holidays. So in effect, we got only 12 days holiday per year.This was a large multi-national, turnover approx 5 billion, so not some back street employer trying it on. Mind you, I did have an almighty fight to recover wages owed to me once I'd left.
Road Pest said:
I have 25 days plus bank hols running Jan to Dec. I only took 7 days plus the bank hols, my boss had said he'd sort something out but looking at the posts above I'm not actually entitled to anyhting?
There's what is law, and what you can negotiate. Never mix up the two.Super Slo Mo said:
MrsMiggins said:
Statutory minimum is 28 days for a full time 5 day a week job.
Slightly off topic, but that's interesting. How long has it been law? The reason I ask is that back in 2002, for a while at least, I worked for a company that decided the statutory minimum was 20 days (as it was), but that it included bank holidays. So in effect, we got only 12 days holiday per year.This was a large multi-national, turnover approx 5 billion, so not some back street employer trying it on. Mind you, I did have an almighty fight to recover wages owed to me once I'd left.
The working time regs is the relevant law that stipulates what can be paid up.
Interesting thread, this.
My company offers a basic vacation allowance of 25 days per year (new starter) up to 35 days per year for 25-year veterans of the company. This is in addition to the 8 or 9 days of bank holiday depending on which end of the country you live in.
There's a scheme in place which allows for the buying/selling of vacation time.
In the scheme, you're allowed to sell up to 5 days, or buy up to 10 days of vacation (so a new starter can have more money, and only 20 days off, or less money/tax/NI contribs and have up to 35 days off, both of these plus bank holidays).
It had never occurred to me before that the limit of selling 5 days might be a legal limitation, but having read this thread I now understand that it's because the minimum amount of paid time off is 28 days (20 days+bank holidays).
Interesting.
My company offers a basic vacation allowance of 25 days per year (new starter) up to 35 days per year for 25-year veterans of the company. This is in addition to the 8 or 9 days of bank holiday depending on which end of the country you live in.
There's a scheme in place which allows for the buying/selling of vacation time.
In the scheme, you're allowed to sell up to 5 days, or buy up to 10 days of vacation (so a new starter can have more money, and only 20 days off, or less money/tax/NI contribs and have up to 35 days off, both of these plus bank holidays).
It had never occurred to me before that the limit of selling 5 days might be a legal limitation, but having read this thread I now understand that it's because the minimum amount of paid time off is 28 days (20 days+bank holidays).
Interesting.
Edited by CraigyMc on Tuesday 4th January 13:59
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Tonker, I know you know your stuff but I'm slightly confused...If there was a share sale, he's still employed by the old company as a subsidiary of the new one - under the old contract, thus still entitled to behave as if he were unless the employer successfully modified it.
If there was a pure asset sale (e.g., plant) and he's just the operator of the asset then he might not be covered but if it's a sale of part or whole of the business then surely TUPE would apply?
Either way he's not some noob employee complaining about something that his colleagues have already accepted.
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