IT Qualifications employment views....
Discussion
Right ladies and gents some advice as it seems most of the country is on holiday so cant call an IT recruitment company to get the answers i need.
Right i need to decide whether to sign up by 6 Jan to do a CCNA.
Now it will be through the Open university i believe they are called. Would someone as an employer be bothered whether i did it at open university or at one of these other places who claim they can do it in 5 days (I personally dont believe it)
Any help or advice appreciated.
Right i need to decide whether to sign up by 6 Jan to do a CCNA.
Now it will be through the Open university i believe they are called. Would someone as an employer be bothered whether i did it at open university or at one of these other places who claim they can do it in 5 days (I personally dont believe it)
Any help or advice appreciated.
I've been in IT since I left the forces in 98. In 12 years of IT I don't have a single qualification to my name, but I have had a very succesful and healthy time as an IT geek. (Touch wood).
I have experience and lots of it, both good and bad, I am now a scumbag contractor chasing the money but I have also been an IT engineering manager, IT project manager and environment manager. My specialities are Virtualisation, Windows Server and server specific apps, so my experience may not suit the Cisco side of things but here is my take on it, (I have worked with Cisco and cisco engineers).
Qualifications are far less important than aptitude in problem solving, design and people / stakeholder managmant.
In an interview it is far more important how you handle the questions that you don't know than the ones that you do. If you show interest in solving issues, finding out what was wrong etc, it means far more than knowing the 5 poxy FSMO roles, you need to know what they do and why, and how time could be shafted if your PDC Emulator is set up wrong or your client has the wrong registry values...if you don't know the answer, ask why.
I think that the Cisco side of things is a little more clearcut regarding qualifications but the difference between a good Network Fairy and a bad one is the bad one will bugger off at 5:00pm but the good one will sit there in the server room hunched over his laptop running traces and traps until he walk triumpantly out of the server room stating that 'it's all fixed, just needed to update the IOS'
Good luck, Networking skills will always be needed for the next 10- 15 years.
I have experience and lots of it, both good and bad, I am now a scumbag contractor chasing the money but I have also been an IT engineering manager, IT project manager and environment manager. My specialities are Virtualisation, Windows Server and server specific apps, so my experience may not suit the Cisco side of things but here is my take on it, (I have worked with Cisco and cisco engineers).
Qualifications are far less important than aptitude in problem solving, design and people / stakeholder managmant.
In an interview it is far more important how you handle the questions that you don't know than the ones that you do. If you show interest in solving issues, finding out what was wrong etc, it means far more than knowing the 5 poxy FSMO roles, you need to know what they do and why, and how time could be shafted if your PDC Emulator is set up wrong or your client has the wrong registry values...if you don't know the answer, ask why.
I think that the Cisco side of things is a little more clearcut regarding qualifications but the difference between a good Network Fairy and a bad one is the bad one will bugger off at 5:00pm but the good one will sit there in the server room hunched over his laptop running traces and traps until he walk triumpantly out of the server room stating that 'it's all fixed, just needed to update the IOS'
Good luck, Networking skills will always be needed for the next 10- 15 years.
Ok i am and have already been IT self employed for the last 13yrs.
I have however recently got involved in a switch project which i had some very brief training in config on the switches but thats about it and i would really rather know what i am doing properly hence the ccna as the project is going to take a good few months to come online properly.
If you have any better suggestions i am open to them.
I have however recently got involved in a switch project which i had some very brief training in config on the switches but thats about it and i would really rather know what i am doing properly hence the ccna as the project is going to take a good few months to come online properly.
If you have any better suggestions i am open to them.
Fair enough.
Do you have a lab environment including the core and outlying switches you can play with? If so, get it booked out for a few days after you have read and understood the IOS bits. Get yourself a Cisco login, and read up on best practice for that series, and get it understood.
Think about what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what will, inevitably, change over the next two years. Try and design it to support change (even if you bill for change controls along the way (better to bill two days for a simple change that takes you half an hour than two days for five sleepless nights))
Give that a go in the lab. If works, stick it on the pre-prod kit. If that works, stick it on the prod environment.
Dont have lab, pre-prod and prod? Run...
Do you have a lab environment including the core and outlying switches you can play with? If so, get it booked out for a few days after you have read and understood the IOS bits. Get yourself a Cisco login, and read up on best practice for that series, and get it understood.
Think about what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what will, inevitably, change over the next two years. Try and design it to support change (even if you bill for change controls along the way (better to bill two days for a simple change that takes you half an hour than two days for five sleepless nights))
Give that a go in the lab. If works, stick it on the pre-prod kit. If that works, stick it on the prod environment.
Dont have lab, pre-prod and prod? Run...
Tallbut Buxomly said:
well this is what i am hoping as its a nine month 20 hrs a week course which sounds like its pretty intensive.
Nine months at 20 hrs a week is not worth the time for a CCNA. Future or current employers are not going to care how you got the CCNA just the fact that you have one. The CCNA is a professional qualification not a degree how you got it isn't important. I have worked in networking for over 12 years and never been asked during an interview or during the jobs how I gained my qualifications.If I was you as you already work in the industry and want to learn more then do self study. Buy the Cisco Press CCNA certification guide and have a read through it. Load up GNS3 onto a machine and practice the routing parts of the exam. If you have switches play around with them, connect them up and try the configs out of the book. If you don’t have switches to play around with then rent a few hours on a remote switch rack.
I did mine after 2 months of studying but that was way back and I have heard its a lot harder now. Give your self 3 months of studying at weekends and evenings and you should be ready to give the exam a go.
You can do a tutored ccna course in a week, then a few weeks practicing at home with your own mini lab, and then sit the course, or when you feel upto it ( exam fee often included in price of course )
least, thats the way I did it.
As for it being any use... well, not where I am, but if you are applying for a job that 'needs it', then they will suss out if you know your stuff at interview anyway, so its just a way of filtering out the dross I guess.
least, thats the way I did it.
As for it being any use... well, not where I am, but if you are applying for a job that 'needs it', then they will suss out if you know your stuff at interview anyway, so its just a way of filtering out the dross I guess.
I have been in IT for almost 12yrs now and don't have a single IT qualification to my name and have done pretty good without them. Like Zaxxon I am a scummy contractor and have worked for some major players and experience counts for so much more than a "badge" so to speak.
Where I am at the moment, I created a test for the FT staff who were being interviewed for my job. The CV's were strong and MCSE, CCNA, etc on them. However most of them failed at the basic question "What is a MX record?"
Cisco stuff is not the be all and end all, we are using Procurve stuff as its pretty damn good really and the support is fantastic. Very straight forward setups and easier to understand.
In the industry there are some many people with all the gear and no ideal.
Where I am at the moment, I created a test for the FT staff who were being interviewed for my job. The CV's were strong and MCSE, CCNA, etc on them. However most of them failed at the basic question "What is a MX record?"
Cisco stuff is not the be all and end all, we are using Procurve stuff as its pretty damn good really and the support is fantastic. Very straight forward setups and easier to understand.
In the industry there are some many people with all the gear and no ideal.
Thanks all some very helpful tips. The reason i felt the OU course wa a better option than the the other "you can gain cert in 5 days" lot was twofold.
First i felt it would be better to do it over a long period of time so i got the chance to fully understand what i was working with.
Secondly I reckon these 5 day places would have a reputation for spewing out people who dont really know what they are doing due to the speed at which they train them.
Oh and third the qual with OU earns you points which can be put to a degree.
However to be honest the faster i could learn the stuff the better. Procurve etc are not relevant as all client sites will be cisco i am assured.
So maybe i could save myself the 850 quid cost and study at home possibly buy myself a switch on ebay or ask the office to supply me with a switch to practice on.
The other benefit to learning quickly would be that i would also like to look at doing java.
First i felt it would be better to do it over a long period of time so i got the chance to fully understand what i was working with.
Secondly I reckon these 5 day places would have a reputation for spewing out people who dont really know what they are doing due to the speed at which they train them.
Oh and third the qual with OU earns you points which can be put to a degree.
However to be honest the faster i could learn the stuff the better. Procurve etc are not relevant as all client sites will be cisco i am assured.
So maybe i could save myself the 850 quid cost and study at home possibly buy myself a switch on ebay or ask the office to supply me with a switch to practice on.
The other benefit to learning quickly would be that i would also like to look at doing java.
edg516 said:
sorry for the hijack, but was wondering how the contractors in this thread are finding the market at the moment. Thinking of making the change in 2011 from permie to contractor
cheers
Ed
Hmm could be a bad move. I am a contractor on long term placement with a company doing mostly government contracts and i have seen a reasonably steady drop off in work. cheers
Ed
However of course thats most likely due to some outside factors rather than simply the new austerity measures.
I think contractor rates will be falling in the New Year.
There have been a lot of projects coming to an end or reducing the amount of staff due to cost cutting.
This has increased the number of people looking for work and so will probably push prices down.
The contractors who have key skills or additional skills will be least affected but personally I'd stay as a permie for a bit longer yet
There have been a lot of projects coming to an end or reducing the amount of staff due to cost cutting.
This has increased the number of people looking for work and so will probably push prices down.
The contractors who have key skills or additional skills will be least affected but personally I'd stay as a permie for a bit longer yet
I've been contracting for about 10 of the last 15 years and I think there's a whole raft of things you can do to get the next job.
Qualifications are helpful for getting through recruiters' keyword searches (this is why people often write 'studying for ...' on their CV's - lazy recruiters may not even spot the words around the keyword. They are also helpful for quantifying what you are supposed to know.
Experience is excellent for learning how to do a job properly and getting through an interview once you've made it through the keyword searches.
5 day courses are great for getting letters added to your CV - essentially they are a course in passing the exam. If you don't know the stuff before you start by working with it you'll probably forget it all a week later. The OU course sounds like a 'rounded' way to gain a CCNA, actually learning about networking rather than just gaining a keyword, but it's also a lot of work. I'd be more concerned about the time commitment rather than the money, and I'm surprised that amount of time doesn't lead to a higher qualification.
In essence it depends what you want to achieve. I would guess that if you want a thorough grounding in Cisco networking then the OU are likely to provide a well balanced course. If you already know a fair proportion of the stuff then you'll probably sail through in less time than they suggest.
If you already know the subject inside out then a 5 day course us likely one route to add the qualifications to your CV. Personally I've never bothered and have instead bought relevant targetted textbooks for a fraction of the cost, set up appropriate hardware & software, and done the intensive studying at home in about the same time. This way I can read the same chapter as many times as I want until I understand the content. Over 10 years I have passed 17 Microsoft MCP's this way, resolving down to 3 MCSE's, each MCP costing me about £50 + exam fees and 3-4 days work
Qualifications are helpful for getting through recruiters' keyword searches (this is why people often write 'studying for ...' on their CV's - lazy recruiters may not even spot the words around the keyword. They are also helpful for quantifying what you are supposed to know.
Experience is excellent for learning how to do a job properly and getting through an interview once you've made it through the keyword searches.
5 day courses are great for getting letters added to your CV - essentially they are a course in passing the exam. If you don't know the stuff before you start by working with it you'll probably forget it all a week later. The OU course sounds like a 'rounded' way to gain a CCNA, actually learning about networking rather than just gaining a keyword, but it's also a lot of work. I'd be more concerned about the time commitment rather than the money, and I'm surprised that amount of time doesn't lead to a higher qualification.
In essence it depends what you want to achieve. I would guess that if you want a thorough grounding in Cisco networking then the OU are likely to provide a well balanced course. If you already know a fair proportion of the stuff then you'll probably sail through in less time than they suggest.
If you already know the subject inside out then a 5 day course us likely one route to add the qualifications to your CV. Personally I've never bothered and have instead bought relevant targetted textbooks for a fraction of the cost, set up appropriate hardware & software, and done the intensive studying at home in about the same time. This way I can read the same chapter as many times as I want until I understand the content. Over 10 years I have passed 17 Microsoft MCP's this way, resolving down to 3 MCSE's, each MCP costing me about £50 + exam fees and 3-4 days work
I don't think an employer will care how you got your CCNA. there are a lot of CCNA's around, you'll probably need something else to differentiate you from the masses. The best way to learn to drive IOS is either on the job or in your own time with a lab or simulator. A good spec PC and Dynamips/dynagen is a cheap way to do this.
Edited by ffc on Tuesday 4th January 12:59
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