Anyone with any experience in the IT industry
Discussion
I live in the South of England and have passed the age where I am able to get educated for free- so now I must find a way of educating myself in my spare time and want to make it quick, easy and painless! mainly with the intentions of attaining a qualification that will allow me to climb the career ladder 
Where I'm at now:
19 y/o, GCSEs (High grades), AS Levels C-E (adequate to do A2), B-Tec National Diploma in Music Tech. (Highest attainable grade achieved), CLAiT Plus Level 2 I.T. Cert.
Where I WANT to be (for now):
MCSE (or /A if affordable and feasible)
for a job working as an engineer/administrator/network staff member in an office or possibly free roaming- doing contracts and such
I don't know an awful lot about how I'm going to get there - due to the shear volume or different options and routes you can take- what I've had a look at so far is the home learning VLE Home college option- I THINK (don't quote me) when a rep. came round my house he said it would cost me ~£1600 to do the MCSE. The reasons I haven't taken it up include- I'm skint, I'm currently between jobs (unemployed), moving house shortly (I know ...) and not able to make huge cash commitments.
Now I'm aware there is different ways of going about this out there-
-I just want to know ideally what the best options are,
-how employable within the industry do I become on attaining an MCSE qualification,
-if there's any earn as you learn schemes that are relevant to myself,
-should I be getting on and learning anything in particular in the mean time? (e.g. a programming language, a software suite, any theory in particular)
-do I HAVE to go to university to pursue this career type? (I'm not incredibly aroused by the idea of 5-figure debt sums)
I have been interested in computers for as long as I can think and have worked in office environments in the past where I have been relied on for my "computer expertise" by colleagues but obviously not officially and that's all that matters nowadays... right?
Oh yea- and by the way- I'm currently seeking employment in the office administration field, so I will hopefully have free time including evenings and weekends plus disposable income to actually achieve anything with soon- but for now I have time... and lots of it till I get info of an interview!
Any help would be smashing - as I have a lot of spare time to get on with at the moment as you'd imagine and rent doesn't pay itself!
Where I'm at now:
19 y/o, GCSEs (High grades), AS Levels C-E (adequate to do A2), B-Tec National Diploma in Music Tech. (Highest attainable grade achieved), CLAiT Plus Level 2 I.T. Cert.
Where I WANT to be (for now):
MCSE (or /A if affordable and feasible)
for a job working as an engineer/administrator/network staff member in an office or possibly free roaming- doing contracts and such
I don't know an awful lot about how I'm going to get there - due to the shear volume or different options and routes you can take- what I've had a look at so far is the home learning VLE Home college option- I THINK (don't quote me) when a rep. came round my house he said it would cost me ~£1600 to do the MCSE. The reasons I haven't taken it up include- I'm skint, I'm currently between jobs (unemployed), moving house shortly (I know ...) and not able to make huge cash commitments.
Now I'm aware there is different ways of going about this out there-
-I just want to know ideally what the best options are,
-how employable within the industry do I become on attaining an MCSE qualification,
-if there's any earn as you learn schemes that are relevant to myself,
-should I be getting on and learning anything in particular in the mean time? (e.g. a programming language, a software suite, any theory in particular)
-do I HAVE to go to university to pursue this career type? (I'm not incredibly aroused by the idea of 5-figure debt sums)
I have been interested in computers for as long as I can think and have worked in office environments in the past where I have been relied on for my "computer expertise" by colleagues but obviously not officially and that's all that matters nowadays... right?
Oh yea- and by the way- I'm currently seeking employment in the office administration field, so I will hopefully have free time including evenings and weekends plus disposable income to actually achieve anything with soon- but for now I have time... and lots of it till I get info of an interview!
Any help would be smashing - as I have a lot of spare time to get on with at the moment as you'd imagine and rent doesn't pay itself!
I work in a network role rather than the Windows side of things; my advice would be to check out your local college for part time courses. As you are unemployed they should be free or at least heavily discounted.
The MCSE or equivalent will not instantly transform you into a valuable commodity overnight; gaining experience is the best way forward.
Have you considered volunteering for a local charity in an IT capacity or working on a helpdesk to gain experience?
Good luck
The MCSE or equivalent will not instantly transform you into a valuable commodity overnight; gaining experience is the best way forward.
Have you considered volunteering for a local charity in an IT capacity or working on a helpdesk to gain experience?
Good luck
AndyClockwise said:
I work in a network role rather than the Windows side of things; my advice would be to check out your local college for part time courses. As you are unemployed they should be free or at least heavily discounted.
The MCSE or equivalent will not instantly transform you into a valuable commodity overnight; gaining experience is the best way forward.
Have you considered volunteering for a local charity in an IT capacity or working on a helpdesk to gain experience?
Good luck
My problem is that I'm soon going to be moving- but it will be back to a familiar town- the one that I have attended the college of before- and I intend to be employed so business hours aren't going to be mine to spend. I am actually try my best to find a job in the help-desk area at the moment- but as a full-time job- are you aware of any such charities that are open for voluntary work on weekends in the I.T. field :S? I'm absolutely fine with exchanging my time for experience- but I mightn't have long to do that in business hours- as I'm rapidly running out of money!The MCSE or equivalent will not instantly transform you into a valuable commodity overnight; gaining experience is the best way forward.
Have you considered volunteering for a local charity in an IT capacity or working on a helpdesk to gain experience?
Good luck
I'm an IT Manager, and IT tech for 10 years, and was/have/am in the same position.
From what i know the best thing you can do is get experience, and once you're there, and you have an idea of what you enjoy, see if your company will help fund you to get any certifications and/or training.
I have see candidates that have had certifications coming out of every orifice, but have little 'real world' experience, and have also seen some that have had very little or no certifications, but have experience.
I've tended to hire the latter, as they are slightly cheaper, and more effective.
I went from an Advanced GNVQ to a IT Technicians job by door knocking local IT Service companies, and big business that would have an IT dept.
Get a decent CV knocked up and printed out, get a cheap suite, get enthusiastic, and go for a walk. Chances are that if you cold call them, they'll stone wall you, or your get the gatekeeper. If you stroll into reception and ask the talk to someone in HR about leaving your CV for any positions it's harder for them to say no.
From what i know the best thing you can do is get experience, and once you're there, and you have an idea of what you enjoy, see if your company will help fund you to get any certifications and/or training.
I have see candidates that have had certifications coming out of every orifice, but have little 'real world' experience, and have also seen some that have had very little or no certifications, but have experience.
I've tended to hire the latter, as they are slightly cheaper, and more effective.
I went from an Advanced GNVQ to a IT Technicians job by door knocking local IT Service companies, and big business that would have an IT dept.
Get a decent CV knocked up and printed out, get a cheap suite, get enthusiastic, and go for a walk. Chances are that if you cold call them, they'll stone wall you, or your get the gatekeeper. If you stroll into reception and ask the talk to someone in HR about leaving your CV for any positions it's harder for them to say no.
Without relevant experience, having an MCSA/MCSE will be pretty much worthless as there are just too many people who memorise the braindumps for these exams without any actual understanding of the content. Hence most employers won't even interview you at this level without a few years solid work history.
I think in your position I would maybe go for 1 or 2 desktop qualifications (exams are around £100 a time) with a view to starting on a tier 1 faults desk somewhere. One you've got a couple of years under your belt you can then consider what direction you would like your career to go and study/progress accordingly.
I was quite lucky in that my employer benefits from my qualifications more than I do in most cases so I'm endlessly being trained and certified in the latest Microsoft/Citrix/VMWare toys. I'd imagine this would be similar with most companies who chase partner silver/gold/whatever accreditations.
I think in your position I would maybe go for 1 or 2 desktop qualifications (exams are around £100 a time) with a view to starting on a tier 1 faults desk somewhere. One you've got a couple of years under your belt you can then consider what direction you would like your career to go and study/progress accordingly.
I was quite lucky in that my employer benefits from my qualifications more than I do in most cases so I'm endlessly being trained and certified in the latest Microsoft/Citrix/VMWare toys. I'd imagine this would be similar with most companies who chase partner silver/gold/whatever accreditations.
ProSc2008 said:
I was quite lucky in that my employer benefits from my qualifications more than I do in most cases so I'm endlessly being trained and certified in the latest Microsoft/Citrix/VMWare toys. I'd imagine this would be similar with most companies who chase partner silver/gold/whatever accreditations.
I couldn't possibly comment...Munter said:
ProSc2008 said:
I was quite lucky in that my employer benefits from my qualifications more than I do in most cases so I'm endlessly being trained and certified in the latest Microsoft/Citrix/VMWare toys. I'd imagine this would be similar with most companies who chase partner silver/gold/whatever accreditations.
I couldn't possibly comment...ProSc2008 said:
Munter said:
ProSc2008 said:
I was quite lucky in that my employer benefits from my qualifications more than I do in most cases so I'm endlessly being trained and certified in the latest Microsoft/Citrix/VMWare toys. I'd imagine this would be similar with most companies who chase partner silver/gold/whatever accreditations.
I couldn't possibly comment...Munter said:
ProSc2008 said:
Munter said:
ProSc2008 said:
I was quite lucky in that my employer benefits from my qualifications more than I do in most cases so I'm endlessly being trained and certified in the latest Microsoft/Citrix/VMWare toys. I'd imagine this would be similar with most companies who chase partner silver/gold/whatever accreditations.
I couldn't possibly comment...ProSc2008 said:
Munter said:
ProSc2008 said:
Munter said:
ProSc2008 said:
I was quite lucky in that my employer benefits from my qualifications more than I do in most cases so I'm endlessly being trained and certified in the latest Microsoft/Citrix/VMWare toys. I'd imagine this would be similar with most companies who chase partner silver/gold/whatever accreditations.
I couldn't possibly comment...That last 2 companies I've worked for both used Citrix to launch their most used programs- in a housing association it was OpenHousing on Citrix and for an energy supplier it was their quotation tools and customer creation/amendment software packages.
ProSc2008 said:
Without relevant experience, having an MCSA/MCSE will be pretty much worthless
I would hire someone with MCSE / MCSA and no experience, over someone with no experience and no MCSE/MCSA. But saying that I would certainly question the benefit of qualifying as MCSE and then starting a job in 1st line support, which realistically is all you're going to get with no experience.
itsnotarace said:
ProSc2008 said:
Without relevant experience, having an MCSA/MCSE will be pretty much worthless
I would hire someone with MCSE / MCSA and no experience, over someone with no experience and no MCSE/MCSA. But saying that I would certainly question the benefit of qualifying as MCSE and then starting a job in 1st line support, which realistically is all you're going to get with no experience.
fin racer said:
get on certforums.co.uk
The general concensus there is self-study, which, if you have ample free time, will be a very feasible option.
Friendly bunch, not short on an opinion either;)
I'm going to head over there now and set up a profile and see where my options are at as far as self-study is concerned!The general concensus there is self-study, which, if you have ample free time, will be a very feasible option.
Friendly bunch, not short on an opinion either;)
itsnotarace said:
Thanks Buddy 
just D/Led the stuff to have a read-throughAlso, don't be afraid to talk up your current skills.
If you get a knackered, but still useable second hand PC/Mac, and flatten it with all kinds of different OS, and configs, you have SOME experience of installs, and configs. If you get another PC/Mac you can start to play with networking and local shares. Then when your feeling a bit braver get a copy of Server OS, whether it be MS or Mac, and start learning about AD, OD, DNS, etc, etc.
If you get a knackered, but still useable second hand PC/Mac, and flatten it with all kinds of different OS, and configs, you have SOME experience of installs, and configs. If you get another PC/Mac you can start to play with networking and local shares. Then when your feeling a bit braver get a copy of Server OS, whether it be MS or Mac, and start learning about AD, OD, DNS, etc, etc.
lythaby said:
Also, don't be afraid to talk up your current skills.
If you get a knackered, but still useable second hand PC/Mac, and flatten it with all kinds of different OS, and configs, you have SOME experience of installs, and configs. If you get another PC/Mac you can start to play with networking and local shares. Then when your feeling a bit braver get a copy of Server OS, whether it be MS or Mac, and start learning about AD, OD, DNS, etc, etc.
Virtual machines man, get with the times If you get a knackered, but still useable second hand PC/Mac, and flatten it with all kinds of different OS, and configs, you have SOME experience of installs, and configs. If you get another PC/Mac you can start to play with networking and local shares. Then when your feeling a bit braver get a copy of Server OS, whether it be MS or Mac, and start learning about AD, OD, DNS, etc, etc.
Hi there,
I spotted your post and decided to reply as I was in the same situation at 19.
My advice to you is to consider packing your bag and moving into Central London. It sounds crazy but if i had my time again I would not have waited until I was 25.
Everyone has different abilities and skill levels. My advice to you is to get yourself on a IT Helpdesk then move into Deskside support.
If you cannot get a paid IT job, go voluntary at a charity, college or university. It will be hard but if you can do 6 months you will significantly increase your chances of getting an interview elsewhere as you will have real-world experience. I had to work voluntary for 3 months then i got taken on.
The training period for when you are ready to move up into Server and Network support should be 4-5 Years, expect to earn a pittance until you have completed the 5 stretch. There are exceptions. I picked up £8500/yr for 2 years, this was in 95/96, i suppose this translates to £18.5k now.
I would plan for a slow, steady education using the employers to pay for it and move jobs every 18 months unless, the employer can progress you quickly.
I would give the two finger salute to the MCSE for now, if you don't have experience it will be clear from the interview and you will get found out. Instead invest it in paper books.
It should be fairly easy to run a desktop PC at home with 8GB RAM and run a small Windows server and Linux farm using VMWARE Workstation, you should consider investing in a 1-year technet subscription, it will give you access to the whole Microsoft software catalog. I know you can Warez it all but believe me, its worth the spend because of the time you save messing about.
How you interact with people and express your ideas is just as important as paper's like the MCSE, there are literally thousands of IT bod's out there who do the MCSE but are clueless and cannot interact with people correctly, this is why the 5 years on desktop support is important for later, it will teach you patience and communication skills.
The challenge you will have to face, that the over 30's amongst us did not is, the HR team's have royally shafted employment opportunities for talented youngsters and now you need a "red brick" university degree to get anywhere near entry level positions in the City in the major institutions.
You can bend the rules here by contracting however, you will lose lots of permanent perks and I am not sure it is the right route in the early stage of any IT career.
On the flip side if you get your head down now, by the time you are in your early 30s you could be earning a small fortune as, IT in London can be a lucrative and satisfying experience.
Expect years of learning, suffering and being skint first!
I spotted your post and decided to reply as I was in the same situation at 19.
My advice to you is to consider packing your bag and moving into Central London. It sounds crazy but if i had my time again I would not have waited until I was 25.
Everyone has different abilities and skill levels. My advice to you is to get yourself on a IT Helpdesk then move into Deskside support.
If you cannot get a paid IT job, go voluntary at a charity, college or university. It will be hard but if you can do 6 months you will significantly increase your chances of getting an interview elsewhere as you will have real-world experience. I had to work voluntary for 3 months then i got taken on.
The training period for when you are ready to move up into Server and Network support should be 4-5 Years, expect to earn a pittance until you have completed the 5 stretch. There are exceptions. I picked up £8500/yr for 2 years, this was in 95/96, i suppose this translates to £18.5k now.
I would plan for a slow, steady education using the employers to pay for it and move jobs every 18 months unless, the employer can progress you quickly.
I would give the two finger salute to the MCSE for now, if you don't have experience it will be clear from the interview and you will get found out. Instead invest it in paper books.
It should be fairly easy to run a desktop PC at home with 8GB RAM and run a small Windows server and Linux farm using VMWARE Workstation, you should consider investing in a 1-year technet subscription, it will give you access to the whole Microsoft software catalog. I know you can Warez it all but believe me, its worth the spend because of the time you save messing about.
How you interact with people and express your ideas is just as important as paper's like the MCSE, there are literally thousands of IT bod's out there who do the MCSE but are clueless and cannot interact with people correctly, this is why the 5 years on desktop support is important for later, it will teach you patience and communication skills.
The challenge you will have to face, that the over 30's amongst us did not is, the HR team's have royally shafted employment opportunities for talented youngsters and now you need a "red brick" university degree to get anywhere near entry level positions in the City in the major institutions.
You can bend the rules here by contracting however, you will lose lots of permanent perks and I am not sure it is the right route in the early stage of any IT career.
On the flip side if you get your head down now, by the time you are in your early 30s you could be earning a small fortune as, IT in London can be a lucrative and satisfying experience.
Expect years of learning, suffering and being skint first!
fin racer said:
get on certforums.co.uk
The general concensus there is self-study, which, if you have ample free time, will be a very feasible option.
Friendly bunch, not short on an opinion either;)
Self study is exactly what an ex colleague of mine did. He used to work in 2nd line support the same as me. Now after a lot of hard studying he is a Project Manager in Brussels on £120k a year! Im not saying that everyone can get an MCSE and walk in to a job like that but perhaps with a lot of hard work you can at least have some success.The general concensus there is self-study, which, if you have ample free time, will be a very feasible option.
Friendly bunch, not short on an opinion either;)
I'd echo everything already mentioned - the IT Helpdesk (or Support Desk as it's normally known now) is often the first step to a job in IT.
Learn as much as you can now, either with self study or a college course, but try for every helpdesk job you can. Helpdesk staff are expected to be Jack of all trades, but you tend to find the good ones develop in one particular area (Networking, software, programming etc). They then tend to move into Second Line support in their preffered area.
Look out for trainee schemes within companies too. I'm sure they're less common than when I started out in '97, but my career started when the Prudential offered a geenral IT Trainee scheme and took on 15 people in a variety of roles.
Also as already mentioned, don't be afraid to talk up your skills on your CV (without actually lying of course). Everyone does it so if you don't, you won't even get an interview.
Finally, and again as already mentioned, you don't need several PCs to self-learn networking. These days it's all about virtual machines - get yourself a copy of VMWare and take it from there.
Learn as much as you can now, either with self study or a college course, but try for every helpdesk job you can. Helpdesk staff are expected to be Jack of all trades, but you tend to find the good ones develop in one particular area (Networking, software, programming etc). They then tend to move into Second Line support in their preffered area.
Look out for trainee schemes within companies too. I'm sure they're less common than when I started out in '97, but my career started when the Prudential offered a geenral IT Trainee scheme and took on 15 people in a variety of roles.
Also as already mentioned, don't be afraid to talk up your skills on your CV (without actually lying of course). Everyone does it so if you don't, you won't even get an interview.
Finally, and again as already mentioned, you don't need several PCs to self-learn networking. These days it's all about virtual machines - get yourself a copy of VMWare and take it from there.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff