Bad M3 test drive- gear box issues? (E93)
Discussion
I test drove an M3 (E93) yesterday at my local main dealer.
I was quite shocked at the condition it was presented in, quite grubby, scuffed and scratched throughout the inside and outside and generally not particularly well cared for - not really what you would expect from a main dealer.
What I'm trying to establish is whether there is a known issue with the gearbox?
It seemed to be very slow from pressing the paddle to it changing up a gear, it seemed to me like there was close to a 1 second delay which I can't imagine is normal.
On top of the gearbox issue car also had warped breaks and when I pressed the EDC buttonIt literally fell off in my hand. Needless to say I won't be buying that particular car, but could be tempted with one of these if the gearbox was just faulty on that car.
I've just sold (a couple of months back) a Z4 35iS which felt so much better through the gears than the M3 I drove so I know the paddle shift box can be really good.
I sold the Z4 with the intention of buying an Aston Martin Vantage roadster, but having driven one yesterday morning I felt disappointed hence going to look and drive an M3.
I would very much appreciate comments especially in relation to the gearbox.
I was quite shocked at the condition it was presented in, quite grubby, scuffed and scratched throughout the inside and outside and generally not particularly well cared for - not really what you would expect from a main dealer.
What I'm trying to establish is whether there is a known issue with the gearbox?
It seemed to be very slow from pressing the paddle to it changing up a gear, it seemed to me like there was close to a 1 second delay which I can't imagine is normal.
On top of the gearbox issue car also had warped breaks and when I pressed the EDC buttonIt literally fell off in my hand. Needless to say I won't be buying that particular car, but could be tempted with one of these if the gearbox was just faulty on that car.
I've just sold (a couple of months back) a Z4 35iS which felt so much better through the gears than the M3 I drove so I know the paddle shift box can be really good.
I sold the Z4 with the intention of buying an Aston Martin Vantage roadster, but having driven one yesterday morning I felt disappointed hence going to look and drive an M3.
I would very much appreciate comments especially in relation to the gearbox.
rassi said:
Can the shift speed of the DCT not be adjusted from S1 (slow) to S5/S6 (fast/brutal)?
Rassi - I had it set to the fastest setting and on maximum power, I also tried it on a couple of setting the down just in case it was too brutal, but it still did the same thing.It does sound like it was just an error with the gearbox, I think I'm there to try and find myself another one to drive as a comparison.
There were at least three upgrades for the dct box from 2008 onwards for the reason you have described and many cars were not upgraded unless the owner complained.Some dealers even tried to charge for the upgrades even though it was a known problem and in some circumstances quite dangerous ie entering roundabouts and the gearbox having a good old think of what to do.If you do buy a car you should ask the dealer to do all upgrades that show up on the car including any gearbox ones as part of the deal as all they have to do is plug it in and let them download.Cars manufactured from september 2008 onwards had the latest idrive and can just be plugged in with all the latest software upgrades.The last time a local auto electrician who had the bmw online equipment plugged mine in it showed about five upgrades which in total would have taken about 5 hours to download so when i get a bit of time before next spring i will let him plug it in overnight so it wil be a nominal fee compared to bmw charging over £100 hr even though they just leave it to download.
I have an M3 DCT from 2008. I had 3 gearbox software upgrades, but at no time were upchanges slow or delayed. In S(sequential or manual) 1 upchanges are instant, fast and smooth. In S5 they are instant fast and brutal.
On my car, downchanges into the lower gears can be a bit clonky - unlike changes in a Z4 3.5i I drove, which were extremely smooth. But the delays you experienced on upchanges are not typical of any version of the M3 DCT from what I have experienced and read.
The V8 Vantage Sportshift on the other hand makes slow and clonky upchanges! Personally, I would not want a V8V with that gearbox.
On my car, downchanges into the lower gears can be a bit clonky - unlike changes in a Z4 3.5i I drove, which were extremely smooth. But the delays you experienced on upchanges are not typical of any version of the M3 DCT from what I have experienced and read.
The V8 Vantage Sportshift on the other hand makes slow and clonky upchanges! Personally, I would not want a V8V with that gearbox.
Id have to say that there is no known issues with the gear box.
My best advice to you would be if you are not 100% happy....walk away.
As the largest MPOWER dealer who generally stocks 8-10 used Mpower cars as well as new ones, they all meet BMW AUC standards now whilst some dealers interpret the rules differently, my interpretation is that i prepare my cars so they can be displayed in my Studio in the showroom.
Don't accept something you are not happy with an AUC BMW M3 should be everything you hoped for!!
G
My best advice to you would be if you are not 100% happy....walk away.
As the largest MPOWER dealer who generally stocks 8-10 used Mpower cars as well as new ones, they all meet BMW AUC standards now whilst some dealers interpret the rules differently, my interpretation is that i prepare my cars so they can be displayed in my Studio in the showroom.
Don't accept something you are not happy with an AUC BMW M3 should be everything you hoped for!!
G
Eastern boy said:
Id have to say that there is no known issues with the gear box.
My best advice to you would be if you are not 100% happy....walk away.
As the largest MPOWER dealer who generally stocks 8-10 used Mpower cars as well as new ones, they all meet BMW AUC standards now whilst some dealers interpret the rules differently, my interpretation is that i prepare my cars so they can be displayed in my Studio in the showroom.
Don't accept something you are not happy with an AUC BMW M3 should be everything you hoped for!!
G
http://www.utahjusticelaw.com/bmw-m3-m-dct-dkg-transmission-failures.htmlMy best advice to you would be if you are not 100% happy....walk away.
As the largest MPOWER dealer who generally stocks 8-10 used Mpower cars as well as new ones, they all meet BMW AUC standards now whilst some dealers interpret the rules differently, my interpretation is that i prepare my cars so they can be displayed in my Studio in the showroom.
Don't accept something you are not happy with an AUC BMW M3 should be everything you hoped for!!
G
http://www.utahjusticelaw.com/bmw-m3-m-dct-dkg-tra...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=913...
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1490...
The list of topics was endless at the time and in the states many owners were going to take legal action as bmw refused to recognise the problem.It is now a few years on and most of the cars have had upgrades but there will still be a few that are not done.The problems were from 1st to second or second to first or 3rd to 1st all low speed up or down changes for example when approaching a roundabout.I had a few near misses when trying to pull off from roundabouts and nothing happened and then it would fire you forward like you were trying to do a 0-60 test.So do take a test drive just to make sure.
griff7 said:
http://www.utahjusticelaw.com/bmw-m3-m-dct-dkg-tra...
http://www.utahjusticelaw.com/bmw-m3-m-dct-dkg-tra...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=913...
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1490...
The list of topics was endless at the time and in the states many owners were going to take legal action as bmw refused to recognise the problem.It is now a few years on and most of the cars have had upgrades but there will still be a few that are not done.The problems were from 1st to second or second to first or 3rd to 1st all low speed up or down changes for example when approaching a roundabout.I had a few near misses when trying to pull off from roundabouts and nothing happened and then it would fire you forward like you were trying to do a 0-60 test.So do take a test drive just to make sure.
From my following of the threads at the time, all the complaints that I read were about delayed downchanges. I never read about delayed upchanges. After the software upgrades, my downchanges into the low gears occasionally became a bit harsh, but the delays went away.http://www.utahjusticelaw.com/bmw-m3-m-dct-dkg-tra...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=913...
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1490...
The list of topics was endless at the time and in the states many owners were going to take legal action as bmw refused to recognise the problem.It is now a few years on and most of the cars have had upgrades but there will still be a few that are not done.The problems were from 1st to second or second to first or 3rd to 1st all low speed up or down changes for example when approaching a roundabout.I had a few near misses when trying to pull off from roundabouts and nothing happened and then it would fire you forward like you were trying to do a 0-60 test.So do take a test drive just to make sure.
As said above the DCT changes almost instantly BUT had the car been warmed up/was it particularly cold?
I've noticed that when it's very cold, like -7C the other day that the first few changes from start up are fairly slow. I wonder if there's something in the software that slows the changes until the fluids are up to temp, or at least above 0 degrees?
I'd certainly expect an AUC car to be prepped well though, if it isn't then I'd walk away anyway!
Eastern Boy might be able to clarify this but as for software updates, I believe that all the latest updates are done before cars are sold AUC?
I've noticed that when it's very cold, like -7C the other day that the first few changes from start up are fairly slow. I wonder if there's something in the software that slows the changes until the fluids are up to temp, or at least above 0 degrees?
I'd certainly expect an AUC car to be prepped well though, if it isn't then I'd walk away anyway!
Eastern Boy might be able to clarify this but as for software updates, I believe that all the latest updates are done before cars are sold AUC?
Big E 118 said:
As said above the DCT changes almost instantly BUT had the car been warmed up/was it particularly cold?
I've noticed that when it's very cold, like -7C the other day that the first few changes from start up are fairly slow. I wonder if there's something in the software that slows the changes until the fluids are up to temp, or at least above 0 degrees?
I'd certainly expect an AUC car to be prepped well though, if it isn't then I'd walk away anyway!
Eastern Boy might be able to clarify this but as for software updates, I believe that all the latest updates are done before cars are sold AUC?
When I test drove the car it was probably about 3C above freezing, so not particularly warm. The dealer did most certainly thrash it down the road to warm it up to start with, in fact I was quite surprised how hard he was driving it considering it had just been roll out of the showroom.I've noticed that when it's very cold, like -7C the other day that the first few changes from start up are fairly slow. I wonder if there's something in the software that slows the changes until the fluids are up to temp, or at least above 0 degrees?
I'd certainly expect an AUC car to be prepped well though, if it isn't then I'd walk away anyway!
Eastern Boy might be able to clarify this but as for software updates, I believe that all the latest updates are done before cars are sold AUC?
There is no way I plan on buying this car, the way it was presented was quite frankly shocking, what I was trying to establish was whether the delay of around a second from pressing the up shift to the gear actually doing something was a standard feature - very clearly it's not.
I plan on test driving another one probably after Christmas now as having driven this last one I wasn't particularly impressed - my Z4 35iS felt a whole lot quicker and smoother.
Big E 118 said:
No, a delay like that isn't right. I'm talking the first 30secs after start up I've noticed a slower shift.
I've tested a few M's and I've never had a salesman thrash it from cold. Best find another dealer!
Good luck with the search!
My thoughts exactly, the really sad thing is that my father used to run this particular dealership from the used-car side of things, he came with me when I went to test drive of this particular M3 as a bit of an excuse to get out for the day. He was unbelievably appalled at the condition of the car and was amazed that they would even consider presenting a car in that condition. I think the dealerships going through a bit of a change at the moment, new management etc etc.I've tested a few M's and I've never had a salesman thrash it from cold. Best find another dealer!
Good luck with the search!
I will probably end up buying a new lower mileage one privately - if I decide the M3 is the way I want to go.
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