Discussion
I'm thinking about the 911 thing at the moment, having never really considered them before.
I've tried a 997 turbo tiptronic and C2 S..... the turbo was ruined by the dire box (I know that PDK or manual is the way to go), while the C2S felt sublime, with a great PDK box.
C4S up next.
I really want to like the 911s, but just love M-cars, especially M5s.
Are 911s a step up or is it just down to personal preferences?
What worries me is the number of people who get bored with Porsches fairly quickly, even the mighty turbo.
Anyone made the move to 911s??
Jazzer
I've tried a 997 turbo tiptronic and C2 S..... the turbo was ruined by the dire box (I know that PDK or manual is the way to go), while the C2S felt sublime, with a great PDK box.
C4S up next.
I really want to like the 911s, but just love M-cars, especially M5s.
Are 911s a step up or is it just down to personal preferences?
What worries me is the number of people who get bored with Porsches fairly quickly, even the mighty turbo.
Anyone made the move to 911s??
Jazzer
I know it's the other way round, but I made the move from 996 Turbo to E46 M3 last year and don't regret it for a moment.
Having said that, there is no implied criticism of the 911. I had 3 of them and loved all of them.
The 996 Turbo is less engaging than an M car in my view. It is bonkers quick and if you like the kick of Turbos and the feeling of limitless grip, you will love it, but it is very quiet and ruthlessly efficient in the way it makes progress. The noise alone of the M3 gets the pulse racing, but it is also beautifully balanced and much easier to play with. I only got the 996T out of shape once and scared myself silly.
The older Turbos are more in keeping with M cars. I kept my '89 Turbo for 5 years but barely managed 2 with the 996. The older version was a beast, sounded fantastic and was so alive to throttle inputs.
As always, it's down to personal choice. The only real way to tell is to have a go with them.
Personally, the only 911 I would now consider is the GT3, but I'd want one aswell as the M3, not instead of...
Having said that, there is no implied criticism of the 911. I had 3 of them and loved all of them.
The 996 Turbo is less engaging than an M car in my view. It is bonkers quick and if you like the kick of Turbos and the feeling of limitless grip, you will love it, but it is very quiet and ruthlessly efficient in the way it makes progress. The noise alone of the M3 gets the pulse racing, but it is also beautifully balanced and much easier to play with. I only got the 996T out of shape once and scared myself silly.
The older Turbos are more in keeping with M cars. I kept my '89 Turbo for 5 years but barely managed 2 with the 996. The older version was a beast, sounded fantastic and was so alive to throttle inputs.
As always, it's down to personal choice. The only real way to tell is to have a go with them.
Personally, the only 911 I would now consider is the GT3, but I'd want one aswell as the M3, not instead of...
Boogsie said:
I'm also interested in this... I feel the pull of a Turbo.
The prices aren't bad, and what I remember from my research the engines and gearbox etc are pretty bombproof on a late 996.
The engine and gearbox are indeed very robust. However, the ancillaries are not. The following items need to be treated as consumables:The prices aren't bad, and what I remember from my research the engines and gearbox etc are pretty bombproof on a late 996.
3 front radiators - very easily damaged
Air con condensors
Brake disks
Turbo heat shields
Exhaust heat shields
The list goes on..
They are very expensive cars to run if you are going to drive them hard.I had a file of four figure bills, the last service costing £3k+ due to needing all 3 radiators replaced.
My other major disappointment with the 996T was the build quality. It was very poor compared with my old Turbo which had the carved from granite feel you would expect of a Porsche. I had various bits of cardboard jammed between bits of trim to stop buzzes and rattles. The build quality of the M3 is way better.
Regarding engagement, you don't buy a 911 turbo for engagement, you buy it for numbers.
We need to be comparing the E92 M3 for the 991 C2S to be fair. Now I LOVE the M3 (I own an E46) but the 911 has a balance and directness even the M range lacks.
Naturally, the M cars are best for a tail out hoon and I still believe the E92 M3 to be one of the best all round cars on the market, but if I was buying purely on engagement, a 997 C2S would be my choice (and probably my next car). If I could stretch to a GTS I certainly would, ignoring the GTX range, it's the best 911 I've driven.
We need to be comparing the E92 M3 for the 991 C2S to be fair. Now I LOVE the M3 (I own an E46) but the 911 has a balance and directness even the M range lacks.
Naturally, the M cars are best for a tail out hoon and I still believe the E92 M3 to be one of the best all round cars on the market, but if I was buying purely on engagement, a 997 C2S would be my choice (and probably my next car). If I could stretch to a GTS I certainly would, ignoring the GTX range, it's the best 911 I've driven.
I've not 'made the move' as such since I have an M5 as well as a GT3 but I would say that the GT3 is very clearly a 'step up' in terms of the driving experience. Both great cars though! I don't think you would regret the move unless you needed the extra practicality that an M5 offers.
Having owened an E92 for 3.5 years, I agree that they are the best all round car currently on sale but I am moving to a 997 Turbo in a couple of weeks. It is not all about numbers IMO. The steering is a lot better and the Porsche is just as engaging to drive hard.
I will miss the extravagant rev range, the induction roar, the exhaust note (after the OEM mod) and the practicality but I found the Turbo was leagues ahead when it came to 'feel' and speed. Living where I do, the Turbo makes perfect sense but if I were to have kept the M3, then a GT3 would have joined it to get the best of both worlds.
I will miss the extravagant rev range, the induction roar, the exhaust note (after the OEM mod) and the practicality but I found the Turbo was leagues ahead when it came to 'feel' and speed. Living where I do, the Turbo makes perfect sense but if I were to have kept the M3, then a GT3 would have joined it to get the best of both worlds.
Hi
I've had my feet firmly in both camps over years and love both brands.It all depends on what sort of car you want and how you use it.
911's are more sporty generally, having better steering, brakes and supplying more feedback through the steering when driven quickly, making car a which is sharper driving tool. The down side is a much less practical car which can be a massive compromise to some people.
The BMW's offer more or less the same on road performance though without the compromise, while still being an engaging and enjoyable drive. Also rate M power engines, some of best lumps available imo
pick of the bunch is the 3.8 C2S manual.
Ive heard people say that they wouldn't have a normal 911, they would only have a GT3, I can only think that the people who say this haven't driven the C2S properly or not at all, the GT3 is rightfully an icon car, but is very comprised day to day unless your the sort of person who goes to work in nomex underwear the Standard 911 is a better bet, save the GT3 for track.
I've had my feet firmly in both camps over years and love both brands.It all depends on what sort of car you want and how you use it.
911's are more sporty generally, having better steering, brakes and supplying more feedback through the steering when driven quickly, making car a which is sharper driving tool. The down side is a much less practical car which can be a massive compromise to some people.
The BMW's offer more or less the same on road performance though without the compromise, while still being an engaging and enjoyable drive. Also rate M power engines, some of best lumps available imo
pick of the bunch is the 3.8 C2S manual.
Ive heard people say that they wouldn't have a normal 911, they would only have a GT3, I can only think that the people who say this haven't driven the C2S properly or not at all, the GT3 is rightfully an icon car, but is very comprised day to day unless your the sort of person who goes to work in nomex underwear the Standard 911 is a better bet, save the GT3 for track.
Edited by wheelsmith on Wednesday 6th February 13:07
Edited by wheelsmith on Wednesday 6th February 13:10
Thanks for all the comments, really helpful.
I'm pleaseed to see that, even with my very limited experience of 911s, that my view of the C2S is echoed on here.....I thought it was fabulous and way better than the tiptronic turbo.
I have a lot of learning and thinking to do, but really enjoying the process.....exciting, but scary at the same time!!
I'm pleaseed to see that, even with my very limited experience of 911s, that my view of the C2S is echoed on here.....I thought it was fabulous and way better than the tiptronic turbo.
I have a lot of learning and thinking to do, but really enjoying the process.....exciting, but scary at the same time!!
I just went through this exact thing. Really liked the first gen 997 C2S, in terms of general feel and controls it is a step above it just feels right but I feel it is missing something and having to pay AUC prices to mitigate engine failure cost leaves me a bit cold.
The E92 M3 is better value as a result and the high revving V8 helps you to forget its humble beginnings to give it that special something. I also prefer the balance of the M, which is personal preference.
Pick mine up next week.
The E92 M3 is better value as a result and the high revving V8 helps you to forget its humble beginnings to give it that special something. I also prefer the balance of the M, which is personal preference.
Pick mine up next week.
Edited by daz4m on Wednesday 6th February 16:15
daz4m said:
The E92 M3 is better value as a result and the high revving V8 helps you to forget its humble beginnings to give it that special something. I also prefer the balance of the M, which is personal preference.
Pick mine up next week.
Good news, enjoy picking the M3 up, I've had mine a week tomorrow & there seems to be a few of us going Z4M to E92 M3, the engine is the star of the show imo I don't think I will ever tire of its lovely sound. Pick mine up next week.
Edited by daz4m on Wednesday 6th February 16:15
Good luck with the pick up
I don't think my 997 C2S ever feels light at the front.
I've had an E36 328i Sport, E36 M3 Evolution, 2 x E46 M3's and now a 997 C2S.
The only reason I'd have another BMW would be the requirement of 4 doors, which will probably happen in the next couple of years.
I'll be going M5 / M3 4 door / Panamera most likely.
I've had an E36 328i Sport, E36 M3 Evolution, 2 x E46 M3's and now a 997 C2S.
The only reason I'd have another BMW would be the requirement of 4 doors, which will probably happen in the next couple of years.
I'll be going M5 / M3 4 door / Panamera most likely.
torres del paine said:
Would people who have driven both cars say that the M3 is more planted at speed? In other words, and not talking about steering feel, does the 911 have a light front end?
I found the Turbo to be more planted at speed but the 2wd Porsches were less so due to the 911 'bob'.jon- said:
Lets not forget a fairly large percentage of the more recent 911 engines have fairly serious known problems.
Very few 911's have serious engine problems, for example RSJ sports car have sold lots of Porsche's over the years and only had of a few fatal failuresMore common is RMS which manifest’s it's self as drips of oil on your garage floor and is easily fixable. Not sure how common this is but often confused with a major problem and is probably over hyped on the internet. I've had 3 Porsches and one had RMS before I owned it and was fixed by Porsche for free even though my car was out of warranty.
The internet always over hypes things, I recently had a problem with floor cracks on my CSL, internet forum chatter made out it was a common occurrence, after speaking to every dealer in the county it definitely isn’t. Half had never heard of the problem, of those which had fixed cracked floors, it was a few every six months.
torres del paine said:
Would people who have driven both cars say that the M3 is more planted at speed? In other words, and not talking about steering feel, does the 911 have a light front end?
Depends what you mean by 'speed' - I have driven my 911 on the autobahn at a 130 mph cruise and it felt very steady.I have had my 997s manual cab now for nearly 8 years and ran an E90 M3 alongside for 3 years and now have an F10 M5. I'd echo the general comments about the steering and general feel of the 911 being more direct than my M3 and M5 - but it is a different car for a different purpose.
And so far, apart from routine servicing and tyres, I have only had to replace coil packs and the battery on the 911 - so the cost of running the car has been very reasonable.
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