Dealing with Insurance Companies re Valuation
Discussion
As I posted recently, my E61 M5 was stollen... Admiral have been pretty efficient so far and called me yesterday to tell me to expect a settlement offer within the next 24hrs. It is the first (and hopefully last time) I am dealing with something like that.
I guess Admiral would offer a settlement value, which I don't have to accept straight away. In their FAQ they appear to talk about Glass Guide. However, looking at eBay, Pistonheads, BMW AUC website and AutoTrader values for E61 M5s appear to be quite a lot higher than for E60s... Or am I wrong?
Nov 2007 (*57 Plate)
I am the 2nd owner bough from Sytner Harold Wood in July 2011 at 33k miles
48k miles with FBMWSH and BMW Extended Warranty
Monaco Blue
Full black leather + Alcantara Headlining
Soft Close doors
M-seats
Logic 7
Ski Bag
High beam assist
all the other usual M5 options
9000 miles till next oil service
recent brakes front and rear
4 Matching Michelin PS2 with about 4mm thread on them
A1 exterior condition - just one stone chip on front wing and one on side skirt
A1 interior condition
To buy a car in similar spec I guess I am looking at around £25k. Also, as we all know, mileage with these cars is super important with regards to being able to get the cheap BMW extended warranty and also for resale values, so that the new owner can potentially benefit from the cheap warranty too. Isn't Glass being a bit over-simplistic and in theory the insurance company should pay out enough (minus appropriate excess) so that I find myself in the same car? Or am I totally missing the point?
Any advise how to deal with them would be greatly appreciated...
I guess Admiral would offer a settlement value, which I don't have to accept straight away. In their FAQ they appear to talk about Glass Guide. However, looking at eBay, Pistonheads, BMW AUC website and AutoTrader values for E61 M5s appear to be quite a lot higher than for E60s... Or am I wrong?
Nov 2007 (*57 Plate)
I am the 2nd owner bough from Sytner Harold Wood in July 2011 at 33k miles
48k miles with FBMWSH and BMW Extended Warranty
Monaco Blue
Full black leather + Alcantara Headlining
Soft Close doors
M-seats
Logic 7
Ski Bag
High beam assist
all the other usual M5 options
9000 miles till next oil service
recent brakes front and rear
4 Matching Michelin PS2 with about 4mm thread on them
A1 exterior condition - just one stone chip on front wing and one on side skirt
A1 interior condition
To buy a car in similar spec I guess I am looking at around £25k. Also, as we all know, mileage with these cars is super important with regards to being able to get the cheap BMW extended warranty and also for resale values, so that the new owner can potentially benefit from the cheap warranty too. Isn't Glass being a bit over-simplistic and in theory the insurance company should pay out enough (minus appropriate excess) so that I find myself in the same car? Or am I totally missing the point?
Any advise how to deal with them would be greatly appreciated...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 24th September 12:11
I was in a similar position a couple of months back after my E60 was written off, for comparison it was a highly specced (9ks worth) 56 plate with 59500 on the clock, in warranty, FBMWSH and I'd owned it for almost four years.
The initial offer was 16k ish, I'd already done my homework, got about 50 adverts of similar cars available for sale and presented my case of how much it would take to put me back in a similar car, bearing in mind spec, age, mileage, service history and warranty. It took a couple of telephone calls but I ended up settling for just shy of 20k, I made my point about the value of my car all things considered and insisted I'd only consider buying another from BMW because of the provenance / history - i.e. mine had had a load of work done to it under warranty, the drive train was solid and internally / externally the car was in mint condition.
This was all via Swiftcover, a figure was agreed within 48 hours of the accident and payment was received within a week so I have to take my hat off to them for outstanding customer service.
The initial offer was 16k ish, I'd already done my homework, got about 50 adverts of similar cars available for sale and presented my case of how much it would take to put me back in a similar car, bearing in mind spec, age, mileage, service history and warranty. It took a couple of telephone calls but I ended up settling for just shy of 20k, I made my point about the value of my car all things considered and insisted I'd only consider buying another from BMW because of the provenance / history - i.e. mine had had a load of work done to it under warranty, the drive train was solid and internally / externally the car was in mint condition.
This was all via Swiftcover, a figure was agreed within 48 hours of the accident and payment was received within a week so I have to take my hat off to them for outstanding customer service.
CSLchappie said:
... lots of useful stuff ...
There are about 10 cars for sale in the UK, but only two are remotely close to mine in terms of spec/mileage, and even they don't have leather. One at £25k and another at £28k... Should make negotiations interesting. The other 8 cars are either over 60k miles, thus untouchable for warranty purposes or pretty bare when it comes to options...Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Wednesday 25th September 11:16
I negotiated my brothers at fault claim with admiral on his behalf (although it was a fiesta 1.25 so plentiful), initial offer was £2,600 and they then eventually settled at £3,600 (not bad considering I bought it 2.5 years previous at 3 years old with 3k miles for £3,800!). We were on the phone for about half an hour with Autotrader open, going through all of the options and me pointing out all the issues with each until the figure was settled.
it will be harder for an M5 though, how about a written statement from BMW stating how much a replacement would be marketed at? - remember they will expect a discount to be negotiated from that advertised price and then deduct excesses etc.
it will be harder for an M5 though, how about a written statement from BMW stating how much a replacement would be marketed at? - remember they will expect a discount to be negotiated from that advertised price and then deduct excesses etc.
just get a glasses guide valuation taking into account any non standard options - you can do it online - the insurance companies initial offer is unlikely to consider any factory extras and be a basic glasses market valuation.
That certainly was the case with my car late last year,
first offer was way below what the car was insured for and what i could buy a same spec car (even if i could find one) after submitting copies of a couple of high spec cars advertised nationally and pointing out that even then they fell short on the options list , they finally made a reasonable offer which I accepted.... i do think it was made easier by the fact that I used Europa to handle the claim for me though.
please note that there is no tin hattery here, merely a statement of facts as they happened in my own case!
That certainly was the case with my car late last year,
first offer was way below what the car was insured for and what i could buy a same spec car (even if i could find one) after submitting copies of a couple of high spec cars advertised nationally and pointing out that even then they fell short on the options list , they finally made a reasonable offer which I accepted.... i do think it was made easier by the fact that I used Europa to handle the claim for me though.
please note that there is no tin hattery here, merely a statement of facts as they happened in my own case!
Opening offer from Admiral is £21,550... A crock of s
t me thinks... Top of Glass Valuation... It does not even get me in an average M5 E61... According to them, the options list does not mean anything and has no value with regards to the price of the car, hence it is not taken into account...
Also being told they don't have to pay more than top of Glass. I find this a bit strange as at the moment at £21k I clearly will not be able to get into a car of similar spec/mileage to mine. In fact I will not get anywhere near it... Then what is the point of insurance??? I insure a top spec car, yet they expect me to go and buy a Lada with the settlement figure?!
Closest I have found is a BMW AUC car, which does not have the full leather trim, but it is at 31k miles for £24k...
The claims advisor's manager is coming back tomorrow with something, but I can see a long drawn out battle... Any advise by insurance people is more than appreciated...
t me thinks... Top of Glass Valuation... It does not even get me in an average M5 E61... According to them, the options list does not mean anything and has no value with regards to the price of the car, hence it is not taken into account... Also being told they don't have to pay more than top of Glass. I find this a bit strange as at the moment at £21k I clearly will not be able to get into a car of similar spec/mileage to mine. In fact I will not get anywhere near it... Then what is the point of insurance??? I insure a top spec car, yet they expect me to go and buy a Lada with the settlement figure?!
Closest I have found is a BMW AUC car, which does not have the full leather trim, but it is at 31k miles for £24k...
The claims advisor's manager is coming back tomorrow with something, but I can see a long drawn out battle... Any advise by insurance people is more than appreciated...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Thursday 26th September 16:59
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Thursday 26th September 17:16
I have no experience in this, but I am definitely an interested observer.
Do Glasses not have an adjustment for mileage? Or does mileage not affect the price for trade buyers? (when they're buying and it's got low miles, probably not, and if they're selling and it's got high miles - same thing)
Having kept a regular watch on E61 prices for the past 21 months (not sure why really, because I don't plan on selling mine) it does look as if £22K is around the current asking price for a low spec, medium high miles E61.
I actually think that £21.5K for an opening offer is not that bad - I would have assumed they'd have started around £18K.
Push them. Don't accept any price comparison with anything that doesn't have full (proper full, maybe it's called extended) leather, and maybe compromise a little on the mileage (i.e. 40,000 ok, but 58,000 definitely not ok, and forget 75,000). There was one out there recently (might still be out there) for £35K - that might help if you get into an averages game.
Good luck.
Do Glasses not have an adjustment for mileage? Or does mileage not affect the price for trade buyers? (when they're buying and it's got low miles, probably not, and if they're selling and it's got high miles - same thing)
Having kept a regular watch on E61 prices for the past 21 months (not sure why really, because I don't plan on selling mine) it does look as if £22K is around the current asking price for a low spec, medium high miles E61.
I actually think that £21.5K for an opening offer is not that bad - I would have assumed they'd have started around £18K.
Push them. Don't accept any price comparison with anything that doesn't have full (proper full, maybe it's called extended) leather, and maybe compromise a little on the mileage (i.e. 40,000 ok, but 58,000 definitely not ok, and forget 75,000). There was one out there recently (might still be out there) for £35K - that might help if you get into an averages game.
Good luck.
omniflow said:
I have no experience in this, but I am definitely an interested observer.
Do Glasses not have an adjustment for mileage? Or does mileage not affect the price for trade buyers? (when they're buying and it's got low miles, probably not, and if they're selling and it's got high miles - same thing)
Glass adjusts for mileage and condition, but strangely it does not for options. And for me that is a real killer - it would have to be an amazing car to get me interested if it does not have the full leather for example...Do Glasses not have an adjustment for mileage? Or does mileage not affect the price for trade buyers? (when they're buying and it's got low miles, probably not, and if they're selling and it's got high miles - same thing)
omniflow said:
Having kept a regular watch on E61 prices for the past 21 months (not sure why really, because I don't plan on selling mine) it does look as if £22K is around the current asking price for a low spec, medium high miles E61. I actually think that £21.5K for an opening offer is not that bad - I would have assumed they'd have started around £18K.
£22k does not get you into any car - have a look on PH, AT and eBay; let alone into mine. It took me 6mths of pestering Sytner HW until they came up with the car...omniflow said:
Push them. Don't accept any price comparison with anything that doesn't have full (proper full, maybe it's called extended) leather, and maybe compromise a little on the mileage (i.e. 40,000 ok, but 58,000 definitely not ok, and forget 75,000). There was one out there recently (might still be out there) for £35K - that might help if you get into an averages game.
The mileage is the one thing I am not prepared to compromise on. As you know, 60k is the "milestone" for these cars for obvious warranty costs reasons. Thus in my mind, a 48k car like mine, should be at lest £2.5k more expensive than a 60k+ car. Put it this way - I would not consider buying a car with more than 55k miles on the clock, unless it was sub £20k (unlikely to happen) as I want to have a peace of mind. The leather option is called Full leather, btw, and is almost an absolute must. So are the soft close doors with a toddler and a baby in the family...Bigglez said:
Agree with you Cheb. The options on mine which were the same as yours make a huge difference. Fight them all the way! Nearest spec to mine at a dealer was 25k...
Yep, fight them - first offer is usually a low ball figure to see how desparate you are to settle: if you're not, keep fighting!MarkwG said:
Yep, fight them - first offer is usually a low ball figure to see how desparate you are to settle: if you're not, keep fighting!
oddly I was advised on here a while back when sorting out my own claim that this sort of thing didnt happen and insurance companies didnt do this... even after it actually had happened to myself...I would send them over as many examples of similar cars on BMW AUC and Autotrader as you can (those that support your valuation, obviously) and ask them to show you examples for their valuation.
They need to prove you can get in a similar vehicle for their offer. If they can't, they're not paying market value which they should be doing. Glasses is only a 'guide' on a car such as yours.
They need to prove you can get in a similar vehicle for their offer. If they can't, they're not paying market value which they should be doing. Glasses is only a 'guide' on a car such as yours.
bencollins4 said:
I would send them over as many examples of similar cars on BMW AUC and Autotrader as you can (those that support your valuation, obviously) and ask them to show you examples for their valuation.
They need to prove you can get in a similar vehicle for their offer. If they can't, they're not paying market value which they should be doing. Glasses is only a 'guide' on a car such as yours.
The claims assessor is well aware of the cars on PH, BMW AUC, eBay and AT. He is also well aware that there is only one car, which is remotely close to mine at £24.3. I also told them that if they could find me the same car as mine for £21.5k I would bite their arm off... He claimed that Glass takes presedence, on which I called bullsThey need to prove you can get in a similar vehicle for their offer. If they can't, they're not paying market value which they should be doing. Glasses is only a 'guide' on a car such as yours.
t. Still waiting for a follow-up phone call from them... Alex, just read this after our correspondence yesterday. In Admiral's current T+C (here) they give the following definition:
Market Value:
The cost of replacing Your Car, with one of a similar make, model, year, mileage and condition based on market prices at the time of the loss. Use of the term ‘market’ in which You would normally shop for Your Car e.g. retail value, will not apply if You buy Your Car privately or at auction.
So - if you bought your car BMW AUC, I would say that's the market in which You (capital Y - their definition) would normally shop for your car. Therefore their own terms would suggest *Your* *Market Value* would be based on AUC prices.
Market Value:
The cost of replacing Your Car, with one of a similar make, model, year, mileage and condition based on market prices at the time of the loss. Use of the term ‘market’ in which You would normally shop for Your Car e.g. retail value, will not apply if You buy Your Car privately or at auction.
So - if you bought your car BMW AUC, I would say that's the market in which You (capital Y - their definition) would normally shop for your car. Therefore their own terms would suggest *Your* *Market Value* would be based on AUC prices.
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