New M3/M4 only 428 Bhp !!!
Discussion
I only glimpsed this on a magazine cover in the shops but I am pretty sure it said the new M3/M4 is 428 Bhp. I presume with twin turbos the ft/lb of the new motor is at least 100 ft/lb more than currently, but such a tiny increase in Bhp really surprises me. Unless there is a significant hike in dynamic qualities where is the motivation for us E90/92 M3 owners to get a new one ?
Dynamic handling, a significant weight loss (lots of lightweight carbon bits), better fuel economy, a lot more torque.
With all that, who needs a million horsepower to go fast in a straight line ? Being agile, responsive and light on it's feet will be the factors that make for an enjoyable drive.
430bhp is plenty if all the other aspects of the car are sorted.
With all that, who needs a million horsepower to go fast in a straight line ? Being agile, responsive and light on it's feet will be the factors that make for an enjoyable drive.
430bhp is plenty if all the other aspects of the car are sorted.
Cyrus1971 said:
Unless there is a significant hike in dynamic qualities where is the motivation for us E90/92 M3 owners to get a new one ?
The E92 M3 will be virtually seven years old when the new one launches so it will be old hat & old tech, plus the lighter more fuel efficient new one also has benefits with more usable torque & a lovely tuning potential from the turbos.I am looking forward to the next one & would happily swap my E92 M3 for one if I had the money, the only fly in the ointment is that autocar mag said it doesn't sound anyway near as good as the V8 in the old one but its hard to get a turbo car to sound like a N/A one.
Schermerhorn said:
On paper it doesn't look like massive progression.
However, put them side by side on a track and the new M3/M4 will crush the old E9X version. Better brakes, sharper throttle, handling, feel, placement, chassis adjustibility etc will all have been dramatically improved.
As good as the throttle response no doubt is on these new turbocharged engines I doubt they'd still be as good as, let alone exceed, the V8.However, put them side by side on a track and the new M3/M4 will crush the old E9X version. Better brakes, sharper throttle, handling, feel, placement, chassis adjustibility etc will all have been dramatically improved.
cerb4.5lee said:
The E92 M3 will be virtually seven years old when the new one launches so it will be old hat & old tech, plus the lighter more fuel efficient new one also has benefits with more usable torque & a lovely tuning potential from the turbos.
I am looking forward to the next one & would happily swap my E92 M3 for one if I had the money, the only fly in the ointment is that autocar mag said it doesn't sound anyway near as good as the V8 in the old one but its hard to get a turbo car to sound like a N/A one.
But here's the thing - it might be better objectively in every aspect but still provide less thrills simply because of the engine. Personally, the engine character and sound is what's more important than just outright pace.I am looking forward to the next one & would happily swap my E92 M3 for one if I had the money, the only fly in the ointment is that autocar mag said it doesn't sound anyway near as good as the V8 in the old one but its hard to get a turbo car to sound like a N/A one.
c3m said:
But here's the thing - it might be better objectively in every aspect but still provide less thrills simply because of the engine. Personally, the engine character and sound is what's more important than just outright pace.
I suspect the V8 will be missed at times, in the same way that the V10 can be missed with the current M5.But then there's the 1M that's still hailed as being brilliant.
c3m said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The E92 M3 will be virtually seven years old when the new one launches so it will be old hat & old tech, plus the lighter more fuel efficient new one also has benefits with more usable torque & a lovely tuning potential from the turbos.
I am looking forward to the next one & would happily swap my E92 M3 for one if I had the money, the only fly in the ointment is that autocar mag said it doesn't sound anyway near as good as the V8 in the old one but its hard to get a turbo car to sound like a N/A one.
But here's the thing - it might be better objectively in every aspect but still provide less thrills simply because of the engine. Personally, the engine character and sound is what's more important than just outright pace.I am looking forward to the next one & would happily swap my E92 M3 for one if I had the money, the only fly in the ointment is that autocar mag said it doesn't sound anyway near as good as the V8 in the old one but its hard to get a turbo car to sound like a N/A one.
I suppose the M3 has always been about being a precision tool in the corners but I always hanker after more straight line shove in mine & just a mild tune transformed my old 200sx so it excites me to think what could be done to the next M3.
cerb4.5lee said:
I do agree the character of the V8 is lovely but I love very quick motors & the V8 never really feels that quick to me & the opportunity to tweak the next one with the turbos will at least make it quick enough to live up to the badge in my eyes.
Indeed, the tuning potential of the new M3 would be on another planet compared to the V8s - I can easily see getting another 50-60hp from a remap.cerb4.5lee said:
I do agree the character of the V8 is lovely but I love very quick motors & the V8 never really feels that quick to me & the opportunity to tweak the next one with the turbos will at least make it quick enough to live up to the badge in my eyes.
Live up to what badge?? the M3 was born from motorsport, the original was never THAT quick. How the hell you can say an E92 didn't feel quick is beyond me!! That motor once you get it spinning over 5K up to 8K was seriously quick.One of the thngs i love about my E30 is the fact that you are having fun and extracting all the engine and chasis will give you at sort of sensible speeds. You cannot beging to exploit an E92 M3 on the road, and frankly on the track they are just average.
I'd love to see the new M3 as a simpler car, less luxuries (leave that to the M5) a LOT lighter and more fun. Wouldn't it be great if they based the new M3 on the world touring car spec. M is afterall short for Motorsport!
RGambo said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I do agree the character of the V8 is lovely but I love very quick motors & the V8 never really feels that quick to me & the opportunity to tweak the next one with the turbos will at least make it quick enough to live up to the badge in my eyes.
Live up to what badge?? the M3 was born from motorsport, the original was never THAT quick. How the hell you can say an E92 didn't feel quick is beyond me!! That motor once you get it spinning over 5K up to 8K was seriously quick.You cannot beging to exploit an E92 M3 on the road, and frankly on the track they are just average.
As you have stated there isn't much point to a E92 M3 in reality as you can't exploit it on the road without risking your licence & it's poor on a track because it weighs too much, I just perceive a M3 to be a quick car that's what I meant about living up to the badge but a modern M3 is more about comfort & usability with a little bit of pace thrown in.
Schermerhorn said:
On paper it doesn't look like massive progression.
However, put them side by side on a track and the new M3/M4 will crush the old E9X version. Better brakes, sharper throttle, handling, feel, placement, chassis adjustibility etc will all have been dramatically improved.
Sharper throtle from a turbo vs the current NA. I doubt that one. Lighter and sharper handling now that's what we need. However, put them side by side on a track and the new M3/M4 will crush the old E9X version. Better brakes, sharper throttle, handling, feel, placement, chassis adjustibility etc will all have been dramatically improved.
RGambo said:
4.5 cerbera. Now there's a car I'd like to drive.
I miss it lots! Had it for six years & loved it to bits...when it worked! It was such an exciting drive, so raw & I liked that you had to respect it or you ended up in a field wrapped around a tree! The M3 is far better in terms of getting the power down & has a more competent chassis but it lacks a little excitement to drive imo.
I notice you have a caterham my father in law has one & I really enjoyed driving it when he let me have a go, I wouldn't mind one in my garage!
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