From M3 CS to e63 M6? - few questions
Discussion
Hi guys
Earlier this year I very reluctantly sold my beloved CS due to making a complete dogs dinner of life (lost gf and then house etc.). At first the increase of money in my pocket was great and I didn't miss the car too much. However as time goes on I really am missing driving her, I'm told this is a common problem with the CS! Here's a picture I've posted on here before (sorry any excuse):
Things are now back on track-ish and with business going well next year I should be in the position to spend around 25k to get back into the game.
My dream achievable motor is a 997 GT3. However one it would be right on the edge of my current income and two I don't feel I'm ready as a driver to really do a GT3 justice - I need more time (+ car limits type course) in a RWD M car to really develop the skills needed to drive the very sharp and focussed 911 really well.
Another dream is to one day own a car with that V10.
I love nearly everything about the M6 but the looks always really put me off. However recently I've seen a few black coupes in the classifieds and thought, hang on a minute that actually looks pretty good! A very nice chap (good driver as well) called Ollie gave us a pax ride at VMax Deutschmax in his M6. The engine was just as immense as I had hoped, and coming out on to the main straight sideways at 80+ mph then going on to 185mph+ was just amazing.
So just a few questions really on the M6 if anyone can help that'd be great:
What's the steering feel like? I was very very spoilt with the CS (CSL rack).
Does it feel a lot bigger / heavier than a e46 m3? If so is this prohibitive to enjoying a smooth fast drive on some good B roads.
Generally is reliability OK? Fuel doesn't bother me at all as you know what your getting but constant electrical issues would definitely grate. I only ask as I'm aware that e6x M cars are probably 100 times more complicated than my e46.
Are the brakes up to the job? I found the CSL brakes on the CS very very good for fast road use but if pushed a bit harder they did feel a bit on the strained side although admittingly Vmax is very hard on brakes. With the M6 being heavier and much faster the brakes obviously need to be pretty monstrous!
Finally does the SMGIII blip on the down change? My SMGII needed a slight feather of the throttle to get a gloriously aggressive throttle blip but I was hoping the III might do it automatically
I know the best thing to do is to go and drive one but any help or insight from anyone would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
James
Earlier this year I very reluctantly sold my beloved CS due to making a complete dogs dinner of life (lost gf and then house etc.). At first the increase of money in my pocket was great and I didn't miss the car too much. However as time goes on I really am missing driving her, I'm told this is a common problem with the CS! Here's a picture I've posted on here before (sorry any excuse):
Things are now back on track-ish and with business going well next year I should be in the position to spend around 25k to get back into the game.
My dream achievable motor is a 997 GT3. However one it would be right on the edge of my current income and two I don't feel I'm ready as a driver to really do a GT3 justice - I need more time (+ car limits type course) in a RWD M car to really develop the skills needed to drive the very sharp and focussed 911 really well.
Another dream is to one day own a car with that V10.
I love nearly everything about the M6 but the looks always really put me off. However recently I've seen a few black coupes in the classifieds and thought, hang on a minute that actually looks pretty good! A very nice chap (good driver as well) called Ollie gave us a pax ride at VMax Deutschmax in his M6. The engine was just as immense as I had hoped, and coming out on to the main straight sideways at 80+ mph then going on to 185mph+ was just amazing.
So just a few questions really on the M6 if anyone can help that'd be great:
What's the steering feel like? I was very very spoilt with the CS (CSL rack).
Does it feel a lot bigger / heavier than a e46 m3? If so is this prohibitive to enjoying a smooth fast drive on some good B roads.
Generally is reliability OK? Fuel doesn't bother me at all as you know what your getting but constant electrical issues would definitely grate. I only ask as I'm aware that e6x M cars are probably 100 times more complicated than my e46.
Are the brakes up to the job? I found the CSL brakes on the CS very very good for fast road use but if pushed a bit harder they did feel a bit on the strained side although admittingly Vmax is very hard on brakes. With the M6 being heavier and much faster the brakes obviously need to be pretty monstrous!
Finally does the SMGIII blip on the down change? My SMGII needed a slight feather of the throttle to get a gloriously aggressive throttle blip but I was hoping the III might do it automatically
I know the best thing to do is to go and drive one but any help or insight from anyone would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
James
Edited by leeson660 on Thursday 21st November 22:42
Glad things on the up. Tough when stuff like that happens, but I found it opens doors in life too. Gives you a bit of a kick up the arse, which sometimes isn't the worst thing to happen you either
Anyway, can't answer your question regarding the M6 I'm afraid, but would you not be tempted to go down the CSL route next? It could even be the stepping stone to the 996 GT3, although I love my car so much I'm worried I would regret swapping it
Anyway, can't answer your question regarding the M6 I'm afraid, but would you not be tempted to go down the CSL route next? It could even be the stepping stone to the 996 GT3, although I love my car so much I'm worried I would regret swapping it
Steering feel -
What's the steering feel like?
Not too bad but certainly no caterham. I find the steering a bit lacking in feedback at times. Have never driven an e46 m3 but don't imagine the M6 steering feel will compare. Where it does excel is the stability at high speeds, amazing.
Size -
Again can't compare but I never feel that the M6 is overly big apart from when I'm looking at it from the outside...
Reliability -
Had mine a year now and it's been faultlessly reliable.. Tyres and fuel the only big expense, I'd budget for 14mpg unless you're doing long runs and drive like a Granny.
Brakes -
The brakes are ok for road use i find, but have heard they can suffer badly when taken on track. They certainly aren't a patch on the AP Racing setup I had on my previous car.
SMG -
Yes it does blip quite nicely, not overly aggressive though. I find the SMG ok, great when you are going for it at full revs. Not so good for town driving but liveable.
What's the steering feel like?
Not too bad but certainly no caterham. I find the steering a bit lacking in feedback at times. Have never driven an e46 m3 but don't imagine the M6 steering feel will compare. Where it does excel is the stability at high speeds, amazing.
Size -
Again can't compare but I never feel that the M6 is overly big apart from when I'm looking at it from the outside...
Reliability -
Had mine a year now and it's been faultlessly reliable.. Tyres and fuel the only big expense, I'd budget for 14mpg unless you're doing long runs and drive like a Granny.
Brakes -
The brakes are ok for road use i find, but have heard they can suffer badly when taken on track. They certainly aren't a patch on the AP Racing setup I had on my previous car.
SMG -
Yes it does blip quite nicely, not overly aggressive though. I find the SMG ok, great when you are going for it at full revs. Not so good for town driving but liveable.
Hello James 
Good to see that passenger lap is still ingrained on your mind!
I'll try and answer some of your questions as we had an E46 M3 before it, not a CS though but a Convertible so not directly comparable to your old car but not far off.
Steering - it's not going to be like your old CS. Your car would have had much more feel, tactility and responsiveness than an M6. Thats not to say the M6 is bad - compared to my 1 series with it's nasty electric rack it is wonderful - but not on CS/CSL levels. It does however suit the more grown up feel of the car. I'm not sure you'd want a rack as responsive as the CS one in an M6.
Size - it's pretty big. Took me a while to get used to it and still does if I jump from the 1 series straight into it. But you quickly get used to it, and I've spent many a happy days on small highland or alpine roads in it without any bother.
Reliability - ours has been alright. The odd EML light due to sensors giving up, a PDC fault that refuses to go away and a small thrust for oil. Nothing out the ordinary for any car if its age. The big cost is the clutch and flywheel. Ours is starting to slip so a big bill is looming. If you can find one with a recent clutch and flywheel change, you're laughing. Others may correct me, but not much else goes wrong on these.
Brakes - are crap. Next!
SMGIII - lets be honest, it's still pants. But I found it so much nicer to use than SMGII. To me its a lot smoother, a lot easier to control when manoeuvring and the auto mode isn't quite so dim. Blips on down change? Honestly can't recall! Maybe, I think it might do very little ones to match the revs rather than for showboating. Nothing stopping you adding your own inputs of course.
To me the car is in a different class to the M3. And it's still a very quick car 8/10 years after it was launched. If you've got the itch, I'd say scratch it. Ours is off the road until May, but it'll be at Vmax after that if you haven't made your mind up by then. I'll just leave this here in the meantime.....
Good luck.
Good to see that passenger lap is still ingrained on your mind!
I'll try and answer some of your questions as we had an E46 M3 before it, not a CS though but a Convertible so not directly comparable to your old car but not far off.
Steering - it's not going to be like your old CS. Your car would have had much more feel, tactility and responsiveness than an M6. Thats not to say the M6 is bad - compared to my 1 series with it's nasty electric rack it is wonderful - but not on CS/CSL levels. It does however suit the more grown up feel of the car. I'm not sure you'd want a rack as responsive as the CS one in an M6.
Size - it's pretty big. Took me a while to get used to it and still does if I jump from the 1 series straight into it. But you quickly get used to it, and I've spent many a happy days on small highland or alpine roads in it without any bother.
Reliability - ours has been alright. The odd EML light due to sensors giving up, a PDC fault that refuses to go away and a small thrust for oil. Nothing out the ordinary for any car if its age. The big cost is the clutch and flywheel. Ours is starting to slip so a big bill is looming. If you can find one with a recent clutch and flywheel change, you're laughing. Others may correct me, but not much else goes wrong on these.
Brakes - are crap. Next!
SMGIII - lets be honest, it's still pants. But I found it so much nicer to use than SMGII. To me its a lot smoother, a lot easier to control when manoeuvring and the auto mode isn't quite so dim. Blips on down change? Honestly can't recall! Maybe, I think it might do very little ones to match the revs rather than for showboating. Nothing stopping you adding your own inputs of course.
To me the car is in a different class to the M3. And it's still a very quick car 8/10 years after it was launched. If you've got the itch, I'd say scratch it. Ours is off the road until May, but it'll be at Vmax after that if you haven't made your mind up by then. I'll just leave this here in the meantime.....
Good luck.
Used to have an E46 M3 SMG which is now with my dad... Also had a E61 M5, which has the same drivetrain as the M6 until it was stollen in Sep this year...
Can you hustle the M6 down B-roads - absolutely... Used to commute to Portsmouth as we keep a racing yacht there. Almost always ellected to go cross-country via the A272. If the M5 can achieve ballistic speeds and pace in general, the smaller (in relative terms) M6 would be even easier to pilot.
The brakes are more than up to the task on the road. My M5 could do 6 laps back to back at the Nurburgring before the tank was empty. Never had a case of brake fade, while I was hardly passed by any cars. On a slow track like Cadwell you will suffer, but that was never the point of the car. Anyone who complains about 380mm fully floating front discs as being inadequate on the public road either does not know how to drive or needs their head checked
SMG III does blip the throttle on downshifts and is an amazing box considering the technology is 10yrs old. As to overal reliability - my E61 M5 had nothing go wrong with it in 17,000 miles and 2 years. Did mostly long distance trips to Europe, Wales and the South Coast. Never managed more than 21mpg. Running costs were horrendous - tyres and brakes - seemed to last no more than 6,000 miles, but then I drove it aggressively everywhere and I think I managed 30 odd laps of the Ring at full tilt in it too...
Can you hustle the M6 down B-roads - absolutely... Used to commute to Portsmouth as we keep a racing yacht there. Almost always ellected to go cross-country via the A272. If the M5 can achieve ballistic speeds and pace in general, the smaller (in relative terms) M6 would be even easier to pilot.
The brakes are more than up to the task on the road. My M5 could do 6 laps back to back at the Nurburgring before the tank was empty. Never had a case of brake fade, while I was hardly passed by any cars. On a slow track like Cadwell you will suffer, but that was never the point of the car. Anyone who complains about 380mm fully floating front discs as being inadequate on the public road either does not know how to drive or needs their head checked
SMG III does blip the throttle on downshifts and is an amazing box considering the technology is 10yrs old. As to overal reliability - my E61 M5 had nothing go wrong with it in 17,000 miles and 2 years. Did mostly long distance trips to Europe, Wales and the South Coast. Never managed more than 21mpg. Running costs were horrendous - tyres and brakes - seemed to last no more than 6,000 miles, but then I drove it aggressively everywhere and I think I managed 30 odd laps of the Ring at full tilt in it too...
Sorry to hear you had to sell the CS, I'm one of those ex-owners that knows how much enjoyment that car brings and when you bought the CS I liked reading your write ups.
I did test drive an M6 back to back with my CS and it didn't do it for me.
To me the two best things about the CS were the wonderful steering feel and that it felt like an event driving it, it was a bit raw. The M6 is a very different car, the steering feels nowhere near as direct and doesn't give the same level of feedback and being a higher end car it is a lot more refined in the cabin.
The V10 is epic and you won't be wanting for straight line speed but my test was mostly on country B roads and it felt big and cumbersome in comparison.
I guess it depends what you want the car for, the M6 is more of a GT where as the CS was a bit more of a B road hooligan.
I had a couple of E92 M3's after the CS and never really gelled with them, again they felt a bit too refined and GT ish for my tastes.
Have you considered a CSL? As you mentioned your interest in Porsche have you considered a Boxster S, worth a test drive? I've recently gone down the Porsche route and I'm very impressed!!
I did test drive an M6 back to back with my CS and it didn't do it for me.
To me the two best things about the CS were the wonderful steering feel and that it felt like an event driving it, it was a bit raw. The M6 is a very different car, the steering feels nowhere near as direct and doesn't give the same level of feedback and being a higher end car it is a lot more refined in the cabin.
The V10 is epic and you won't be wanting for straight line speed but my test was mostly on country B roads and it felt big and cumbersome in comparison.
I guess it depends what you want the car for, the M6 is more of a GT where as the CS was a bit more of a B road hooligan.
I had a couple of E92 M3's after the CS and never really gelled with them, again they felt a bit too refined and GT ish for my tastes.
Have you considered a CSL? As you mentioned your interest in Porsche have you considered a Boxster S, worth a test drive? I've recently gone down the Porsche route and I'm very impressed!!
i did exactly what you are looking to do from a manual Cs to an M5 and here are my thoughts......after a month.
Fuel consumption is a whole word apart from the M3
Its very very fast (M5) but its powerband is up in the heavens and below it acts like a 530i - its rare for me to get a second gear at full power, one is enough to make it very very fast..
It sounds great on the downshift but the smg isnt the best/smartest
It has a lovely quality feel to it and is nicer to drive on average journeys the Cs can feel crashy....
With the budget i had I could only afford what i could afford with £25k id go for a C63, more use of power more of the time...is probably the best summary
I know its not BMW but its a good missing link from the E39 M5......just saying ok.....sorry all...
Fuel consumption is a whole word apart from the M3
Its very very fast (M5) but its powerband is up in the heavens and below it acts like a 530i - its rare for me to get a second gear at full power, one is enough to make it very very fast..
It sounds great on the downshift but the smg isnt the best/smartest
It has a lovely quality feel to it and is nicer to drive on average journeys the Cs can feel crashy....
With the budget i had I could only afford what i could afford with £25k id go for a C63, more use of power more of the time...is probably the best summary
I know its not BMW but its a good missing link from the E39 M5......just saying ok.....sorry all...
Thanks for all the info chaps very much appreciated
Hi Olly btw! Oh yes mate I don't think I'll forget that pax ride bloody awesome.
The brakes sound similar to the CSL brakes on the CS; a lot of people said they were poor as well. But for my driving style on the road they were pretty damn good. That said I've never driven anything with AP's or anything with brakes that are deemed 'excellent'. That's where the GT3 will come in Cheers Cheburator mk2 that e61 sounds like a real beast edit: just read your post again, really sorry to hear it got stolen absolutely gutted for you. I can't see myself ever going on track with a M6 - as you said its not really designed for it. A trip to the ring does appeal though.
It's strange the e92 m3 just doesn't do it for me. They look incredible and I'm sure they are very accomplished but the V8 for some reason doesn't appeal and it seems just too much of a compromise.
Ref the SMG I actually really loved the SMGII - I thought it was brilliant. The changes were always dramatic and I love the fact you have to really learn to use the box well. It suited the s54 really well too. OK the auto was pretty comical but I hardly ever used it. I think I would find a really efficient / smooth / easy to use system a bit boring.
Why not CSL?
Very good question.
The thought of a 200kg lighter CS with improved suspension and that induction noise is the stuff of dreams to be honest.
However I think it comes down to a few things for me:
I don't have a garage, it pretty much broke my heart seeing the CS out in the wind and the rain and I'd feel the same about the CSL. I wouldn't ever buy a GT3 or anything on that level before having a nice big garage to put it in.
The sheer amount of money for a 2003 car with 50k+ miles. Good ones seem to be up around 30k which is a huge amount of money. It's just slightly over what I am personally prepared to pay for a 03 car. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.
Probably my favorite part of owning the CS apart from VMax was the weekend winter blasts out to the North Coast Cornwall with the gf to go to lunch or a walk etc. Hardly anyone on the road, driving fast and smooth but at 7/10ths, great roads all the way, wind and rain to battle through. The CS in these conditions was absolutely sublime. All this with lovely heated leather seats, good music on the sound system etc. Then when the gf isnt looking hit the DSC button and get the tail out coming out of the next junction
The way I see it is for this type of use apart from its alcoholic thirst for fuel the M6 will be absolutely perfect.
Sorry for waffling on. Again thanks for all the info, you can't beat proper petrol heads ownership experiences for a real insight into a car.
Hi Olly btw! Oh yes mate I don't think I'll forget that pax ride bloody awesome.
The brakes sound similar to the CSL brakes on the CS; a lot of people said they were poor as well. But for my driving style on the road they were pretty damn good. That said I've never driven anything with AP's or anything with brakes that are deemed 'excellent'. That's where the GT3 will come in
Cheers Cheburator mk2 that e61 sounds like a real beast edit: just read your post again, really sorry to hear it got stolen absolutely gutted for you. I can't see myself ever going on track with a M6 - as you said its not really designed for it. A trip to the ring does appeal though.Big E 118 said:
Sorry to hear you had to sell the CS, I'm one of those ex-owners that knows how much enjoyment that car brings and when you bought the CS I liked reading your write ups.
I did test drive an M6 back to back with my CS and it didn't do it for me.
To me the two best things about the CS were the wonderful steering feel and that it felt like an event driving it, it was a bit raw. The M6 is a very different car, the steering feels nowhere near as direct and doesn't give the same level of feedback and being a higher end car it is a lot more refined in the cabin.
The V10 is epic and you won't be wanting for straight line speed but my test was mostly on country B roads and it felt big and cumbersome in comparison.
I guess it depends what you want the car for, the M6 is more of a GT where as the CS was a bit more of a B road hooligan.
I had a couple of E92 M3's after the CS and never really gelled with them, again they felt a bit too refined and GT ish for my tastes.
Have you considered a CSL? As you mentioned your interest in Porsche have you considered a Boxster S, worth a test drive? I've recently gone down the Porsche route and I'm very impressed!!
Hi mate. You had that lovely blue CS if I remember correctly? Glad you liked my kid at xmas ramblings I did test drive an M6 back to back with my CS and it didn't do it for me.
To me the two best things about the CS were the wonderful steering feel and that it felt like an event driving it, it was a bit raw. The M6 is a very different car, the steering feels nowhere near as direct and doesn't give the same level of feedback and being a higher end car it is a lot more refined in the cabin.
The V10 is epic and you won't be wanting for straight line speed but my test was mostly on country B roads and it felt big and cumbersome in comparison.
I guess it depends what you want the car for, the M6 is more of a GT where as the CS was a bit more of a B road hooligan.
I had a couple of E92 M3's after the CS and never really gelled with them, again they felt a bit too refined and GT ish for my tastes.
Have you considered a CSL? As you mentioned your interest in Porsche have you considered a Boxster S, worth a test drive? I've recently gone down the Porsche route and I'm very impressed!!
It's strange the e92 m3 just doesn't do it for me. They look incredible and I'm sure they are very accomplished but the V8 for some reason doesn't appeal and it seems just too much of a compromise.
Ref the SMG I actually really loved the SMGII - I thought it was brilliant. The changes were always dramatic and I love the fact you have to really learn to use the box well. It suited the s54 really well too. OK the auto was pretty comical but I hardly ever used it. I think I would find a really efficient / smooth / easy to use system a bit boring.
Why not CSL?
Very good question.
The thought of a 200kg lighter CS with improved suspension and that induction noise is the stuff of dreams to be honest.
However I think it comes down to a few things for me:
I don't have a garage, it pretty much broke my heart seeing the CS out in the wind and the rain and I'd feel the same about the CSL. I wouldn't ever buy a GT3 or anything on that level before having a nice big garage to put it in.
The sheer amount of money for a 2003 car with 50k+ miles. Good ones seem to be up around 30k which is a huge amount of money. It's just slightly over what I am personally prepared to pay for a 03 car. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.
Probably my favorite part of owning the CS apart from VMax was the weekend winter blasts out to the North Coast Cornwall with the gf to go to lunch or a walk etc. Hardly anyone on the road, driving fast and smooth but at 7/10ths, great roads all the way, wind and rain to battle through. The CS in these conditions was absolutely sublime. All this with lovely heated leather seats, good music on the sound system etc. Then when the gf isnt looking hit the DSC button and get the tail out coming out of the next junction
The way I see it is for this type of use apart from its alcoholic thirst for fuel the M6 will be absolutely perfect.
Sorry for waffling on. Again thanks for all the info, you can't beat proper petrol heads ownership experiences for a real insight into a car.
Edited by leeson660 on Friday 22 November 23:15
CornishRob said:
What about a Z4MC?
I'm biased as I have one, but they have basically the same steering, bit different to the E46, so would feel like a different at with that spectacular engine.
Guess it depends if you need more than 2 seats.
Hi mate.I'm biased as I have one, but they have basically the same steering, bit different to the E46, so would feel like a different at with that spectacular engine.
Guess it depends if you need more than 2 seats.
Personally I think on CSL rims the Z4MC is one of the best looking cars on the road. I'll do a bit of research and see what their all about - certainly an interesting option.
I think you would be happy with a Z4MC, I sold my Z3MC 2 years ago but still looking for that M6 V10 but im a picky b4stard lol
Agree with the CSL rimmage, this had H&S exhaust on it which sounded amazing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krSPw4SmR6Y
Agree with the CSL rimmage, this had H&S exhaust on it which sounded amazing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krSPw4SmR6Y
I don't think I need to mention much since others have answered all the questions very well but here's my short answers to your questions
What's the steering feel like? I was very very spoilt with the CS (CSL rack).
- It's not as responsive nor connected as the CS but it's a lot easier to maneuver and takes less effort to turn. The difference is very noticeable but not necessarily in a negative way. There's different feeling to it and the M6's steering feels firm and steady at high speed runs. More refinement, less feedback.
Does it feel a lot bigger / heavier than a e46 m3? If so is this prohibitive to enjoying a smooth fast drive on some good B roads.
- A LOT BIGGER/HEAVIER. Although I'm pretty confident you'll enjoy blasting down B roads thanks to that V10 noise with massive oooomph! but it's not that 'precise driving' pleasure you get on the track days if you know what I mean. Let me put it this way, this car naturally exhibits hooliganism out on both the track and road. It's just a lot more fun playing around with it rather than trying to attack corners for fast lap time.
Make sure you use the full power band to get all that horses out.
Generally is reliability OK? Fuel doesn't bother me at all as you know what your getting but constant electrical issues would definitely grate. I only ask as I'm aware that e6x M cars are probably 100 times more complicated than my e46.
- Not ok. Seems like others here have had good experience in their ownership but considering me and my mates M5/M6s it's one of the most unreliable car we've ever owned. In fact, E60-64 M5/6 variants are one of the top 5 most unreliable car in North America. Be ready to dig your wallet when things go wrong or go safe with warranty like I did. This year's repair/maintenance cost would have been near 10,000pound if it wasn't the warranty.
No wonder someone decided to crash his M6 in front of Frankfurt motorshow..
I also know a guy who drove into dealership's glass show room claiming he won't drive it until the dealer either fix it or sell it on behalf of him. lol
Are the brakes up to the job? I found the CSL brakes on the CS very very good for fast road use but if pushed a bit harder they did feel a bit on the strained side although admittingly Vmax is very hard on brakes. With the M6 being heavier and much faster the brakes obviously need to be pretty monstrous!
- I'd say it's up to the job but not for pure trackday attack. I drove really hard on Nurburgring last September, hot summer afternoon, my brakes faded on the second consecutive lap. I did change my brake fluids before the trip (OEM) but they started boiling together with power steering fluid. (reservoir spitting fluid)
If it's not hot summer day then normal trackdays in the UK shouldn't be a problem. There's no aftermarket disc replacement for OEM calipers. I heard stoptech big brake kit does work a lot better but ironically those who have these brakes they never use it to the limit. I reckon grooved discs with OEM caliper would do nicely but no one sells them.
I don't know what the brakes were like on your CS but people coming from AMG say it's a big jump in terms of braking performance. A lot better than AMGs (apart from those ridiculous 8pot ones from high end models like 65AMGs)
Finally does the SMGIII blip on the down change? My SMGII needed a slight feather of the throttle to get a gloriously aggressive throttle blip but I was hoping the III might do it automatically
- It's nearly the same as your SMGll. I feather the throttle to get nice and aggressive blip, otherwise it's not really up to the job and I personally feel that blipping helps shifting gears down quicker under extreme braking. This really makes difference when coming all the way down to the 1st gear.
What's the steering feel like? I was very very spoilt with the CS (CSL rack).
- It's not as responsive nor connected as the CS but it's a lot easier to maneuver and takes less effort to turn. The difference is very noticeable but not necessarily in a negative way. There's different feeling to it and the M6's steering feels firm and steady at high speed runs. More refinement, less feedback.
Does it feel a lot bigger / heavier than a e46 m3? If so is this prohibitive to enjoying a smooth fast drive on some good B roads.
- A LOT BIGGER/HEAVIER. Although I'm pretty confident you'll enjoy blasting down B roads thanks to that V10 noise with massive oooomph! but it's not that 'precise driving' pleasure you get on the track days if you know what I mean. Let me put it this way, this car naturally exhibits hooliganism out on both the track and road. It's just a lot more fun playing around with it rather than trying to attack corners for fast lap time.
Make sure you use the full power band to get all that horses out.
Generally is reliability OK? Fuel doesn't bother me at all as you know what your getting but constant electrical issues would definitely grate. I only ask as I'm aware that e6x M cars are probably 100 times more complicated than my e46.
- Not ok. Seems like others here have had good experience in their ownership but considering me and my mates M5/M6s it's one of the most unreliable car we've ever owned. In fact, E60-64 M5/6 variants are one of the top 5 most unreliable car in North America. Be ready to dig your wallet when things go wrong or go safe with warranty like I did. This year's repair/maintenance cost would have been near 10,000pound if it wasn't the warranty.
No wonder someone decided to crash his M6 in front of Frankfurt motorshow..
I also know a guy who drove into dealership's glass show room claiming he won't drive it until the dealer either fix it or sell it on behalf of him. lol
Are the brakes up to the job? I found the CSL brakes on the CS very very good for fast road use but if pushed a bit harder they did feel a bit on the strained side although admittingly Vmax is very hard on brakes. With the M6 being heavier and much faster the brakes obviously need to be pretty monstrous!
- I'd say it's up to the job but not for pure trackday attack. I drove really hard on Nurburgring last September, hot summer afternoon, my brakes faded on the second consecutive lap. I did change my brake fluids before the trip (OEM) but they started boiling together with power steering fluid. (reservoir spitting fluid)
If it's not hot summer day then normal trackdays in the UK shouldn't be a problem. There's no aftermarket disc replacement for OEM calipers. I heard stoptech big brake kit does work a lot better but ironically those who have these brakes they never use it to the limit. I reckon grooved discs with OEM caliper would do nicely but no one sells them.
I don't know what the brakes were like on your CS but people coming from AMG say it's a big jump in terms of braking performance. A lot better than AMGs (apart from those ridiculous 8pot ones from high end models like 65AMGs)
Finally does the SMGIII blip on the down change? My SMGII needed a slight feather of the throttle to get a gloriously aggressive throttle blip but I was hoping the III might do it automatically
- It's nearly the same as your SMGll. I feather the throttle to get nice and aggressive blip, otherwise it's not really up to the job and I personally feel that blipping helps shifting gears down quicker under extreme braking. This really makes difference when coming all the way down to the 1st gear.
Hi John thanks for all the info.
From what everyone's said it sounds like an awesome car to drive. From the cs seems that some it'll be a sacrifice in terms of feel, tactility and rawness but big gains in straight line poke and refinement. Getting more and more excited about the v10. Great to hear its a hooligan like all m cars should be
Ouch that reliability doesn't sound good! I had the full comprehensive bmw mondial warranty for the cs so maybe thats the way to go if I do go down the m6 route? I was planning to put aside some money each month for unexpected bills but wasn't budgeting 10k lol
From what everyone's said it sounds like an awesome car to drive. From the cs seems that some it'll be a sacrifice in terms of feel, tactility and rawness but big gains in straight line poke and refinement. Getting more and more excited about the v10. Great to hear its a hooligan like all m cars should be
Ouch that reliability doesn't sound good! I had the full comprehensive bmw mondial warranty for the cs so maybe thats the way to go if I do go down the m6 route? I was planning to put aside some money each month for unexpected bills but wasn't budgeting 10k lol
It sounds like the type of roads available to you on a regular basis are fairly rural B roads where top end power maybe wasted especially if it comes at the cost of balance and steering.
I've got flamed every time for saying it but the E6x with the V10 is a bit of top trump car which doesn't really do much for me on real roads unless you get a big kick out of staring at the speedo going around and/or overtaking cars as fast as possible. It's a limousine with a super car engine (a fantastic engine no doubt) and you have to be doing some serious speed to feel the car working under you which the E46 does at a much lower speed. Things like the carbon roof on the E63 are great but does it really make a difference on a 1700kg car?
I almost bought an E60 M5 purely on the superiority complex that on paper I'd have a car probably in the top 5-7% on the road, it's a nice thought to have but in reality I would have lost the rawness of a smaller more pointy car and lost out on the range and usability of a fast long distance comfortable cruiser. (I've ended up with an SMG E46 M3, E60 550i and a Z4 3.0 to be built engine + supercharged)
I think you should seriously consider a CSL as it's very unlikely depreciation will come into it at all, otherwise look at a Porker, a C2S would be a nice step up to a GT3. If your budget allows consider a 360 as they're at the bottom of a plateau.
I've got flamed every time for saying it but the E6x with the V10 is a bit of top trump car which doesn't really do much for me on real roads unless you get a big kick out of staring at the speedo going around and/or overtaking cars as fast as possible. It's a limousine with a super car engine (a fantastic engine no doubt) and you have to be doing some serious speed to feel the car working under you which the E46 does at a much lower speed. Things like the carbon roof on the E63 are great but does it really make a difference on a 1700kg car?
I almost bought an E60 M5 purely on the superiority complex that on paper I'd have a car probably in the top 5-7% on the road, it's a nice thought to have but in reality I would have lost the rawness of a smaller more pointy car and lost out on the range and usability of a fast long distance comfortable cruiser. (I've ended up with an SMG E46 M3, E60 550i and a Z4 3.0 to be built engine + supercharged)
I think you should seriously consider a CSL as it's very unlikely depreciation will come into it at all, otherwise look at a Porker, a C2S would be a nice step up to a GT3. If your budget allows consider a 360 as they're at the bottom of a plateau.
OP
Good to hear from you again. I also loved reading your posts about the M3 CS.
I also would like to own/drive E63 M6 one day. The engine like u say is sublime but strikes me as more of a cross continent crusher / autobahn stormer/GT car than a B road blaster. Though I am sure can tackle B roads. I remember Evo Car of the Year 2005 comparing M3 CS to M6, Cayman S, V8 Vantage amongst others. I will try and dig out what it said about M3 CS and M6.
As for your budget you can get a lot of really nice cars. What are your specific requirements as such ? Just a B road blaster ?
You could get yourself
E63 M6
E9X M3
Z4 M
Z3 M Coupe S54
M3 CSL
Easily another M3 CS
996.2 C2 even the 40th anniversary edition with power kit run out special which would be good step up to GT3 ?
Cayman/Boxster
Exige
4200GT
Maserati Grande Sporte
XKR
Good to hear from you again. I also loved reading your posts about the M3 CS.
I also would like to own/drive E63 M6 one day. The engine like u say is sublime but strikes me as more of a cross continent crusher / autobahn stormer/GT car than a B road blaster. Though I am sure can tackle B roads. I remember Evo Car of the Year 2005 comparing M3 CS to M6, Cayman S, V8 Vantage amongst others. I will try and dig out what it said about M3 CS and M6.
As for your budget you can get a lot of really nice cars. What are your specific requirements as such ? Just a B road blaster ?
You could get yourself
E63 M6
E9X M3
Z4 M
Z3 M Coupe S54
M3 CSL
Easily another M3 CS
996.2 C2 even the 40th anniversary edition with power kit run out special which would be good step up to GT3 ?
Cayman/Boxster
Exige
4200GT
Maserati Grande Sporte
XKR
161BMW said:
And here is one of mine :-)
Cheers for the article mate really interesting read. Your car looks incredible it took me back a few years looking at e46 m3s with the heart melting thinking 'I have to own that car' 
From what everyone has said, I'm going to go away and really think about this one.
Cheers for all your help much appreciated.
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