Two E92 M3 Questions

[bennyboysvuk]

I have some annoyances about my E91 330i Touring and wondered if the M3 was afflicted by the same electronic nannying, so please could an E9* M3 owner help me out by answering the following?

1. Can you use the cruise control with the DTC completely off?

2. If you are using cruise control and you turn into a tight-ish bend that will push the car a bit, but not beyond the level of grip, does the car reduce your speed automatically? The feel in the 330i is exactly as if the car has set limits for steering angle at specific speeds and if that is exceeded it drops out of the throttle until the steering is straightened at which point it gains speed again.

Thanks.

[bennyboysvuk]

I was rather hoping that someone might jump on this and say that the M, being a proper M-car doesn't have such ridiculous traits.

Can an E92 owner confirm either point?

...or does nobody ever turn DTC off?

[t8cmf]

I saw your thread but wasn't sure if you had crossed wires or something reference what car has what. I have an E92 M3 but I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to reference the DTC. As far as I'm aware the E92 M3 doesn't refer to DTC, I think its DSC you mean but how it links with cruise control / traction control I'm not sure. I have POWER, EDC and DSC OFF buttons on my centre console.

Having said all that I don't think my M3 suffers from the issues you mention above.

[cerb4.5lee]

When I saw this thread I was trying to remember if my old E92 M3 did the cruise control bit as I always had my M button set up for traction off as when its on it just holds the car back too much when you use full throttle.

Usually if my M button was on it meant I was tanking around which meant I wouldn't be using cruise anyway so I wasn't 100% sure to be honest.

Edited by cerb4.5lee on Thursday 3rd April 13:59

[scarebus]

I had a 130i which had DTC, dynamic traction control. This is very similar to the M3s MDM as it allows a little slippage before reigning the fun in.
MDM allows a tad more slip angle and wheel spin than DTC.
To answer your question, cruise control works with MDM active and DSC off on the M3.

[bennyboysvuk]

scarebus said:

To answer your question, cruise control works with MDM active and DSC off on the M3.

Ah, that's halfway there. Does it still work if you go the whole hog and turn MDM off too?

My commute is stop start town stuff, roundabouts, b-roads and dual carriageways. I really want all traction and DSC aids turned off all the time and hoped that the M3 is electronically set-up in a more hard-core way than the E91 330i, otherwise I end up having to press the same button 10 times on a journey that in my E46 M3 was a one-press solution (DSC off).

Finally, the steering angle/cruise control speed drop issue. Can anyone confirm that query? The feeling in my old E46 M3 was that when on cruise, going into a tight-ish bend the car would realise that the speed was dropping due to entering a corner and provide more throttle to keep to the same speed, so throughout the corner it felt like the car was pressing on and the chassis felt under load, predictable and responsive. By comparison, the same corner entry in the E91 330i makes the car lift out of the throttle, dropping the speed by 6-7mph and not getting back on the throttle until after the corner. This has the effect of the car suddenly chasing the apex as it lifts out of the throttle. It's not smooth, it's not efficient and it feels dreadful from the driving seat. I really despise it about the car. Maybe I'm asking too much of it.

BTW, thanks for your answers everyone.

[cerb4.5lee]

bennyboysvuk said:

the same corner entry in the E91 330i makes the car lift out of the throttle, dropping the speed by 6-7mph and not getting back on the throttle until after the corner. This has the effect of the car suddenly chasing the apex as it lifts out of the throttle. It's not smooth, it's not efficient and it feels dreadful from the driving seat. I really despise it about the car. Maybe I'm asking too much of it.

I think you are asking a little too much of the car maybe as I just think the 330i is a comfy cruiser as its not really the type of car to have any fun in, I really like my 330i but I just accept it for what it is which is a fairly boring motor with a nice smooth engine under the bonnet.

In fairness I always thought my E92 M3 was too much of a comfy cruiser as well but at least with that you could whip all the aids off and have some serious tyre smoking fun and that felt far better when it was being grabbed by the scruff of the neck.

I think if you want an enjoyable exciting drive other alternatives do it far better, I was hoping my E92 M3 would be the do it all car but for me there isn't such a thing you are better off imo with something nice as a daily and something exciting in the garage for the weekends that is a genuine focused drivers car like a Lotus/Caterham/Porsche rather than a 3 series in a nice dress.

[jayemm89]

I am curious why you need cruise control with the DSC/DTC off?

Surely one only turns those off when hooning and if you've got cruise on, you're not hooning.

Sadly my 3 series knowledge begins and ends with the E46, but my 6-series is of the same vintage as the E9x and so might share electronics. It certainly has DTC, so I will test it today and see if I can get cruise with it off.

James

[bennyboysvuk]

cerb4.5lee said:

bennyboysvuk said:

the same corner entry in the E91 330i makes the car lift out of the throttle, dropping the speed by 6-7mph and not getting back on the throttle until after the corner. This has the effect of the car suddenly chasing the apex as it lifts out of the throttle. It's not smooth, it's not efficient and it feels dreadful from the driving seat. I really despise it about the car. Maybe I'm asking too much of it.

I think you are asking a little too much of the car maybe as I just think the 330i is a comfy cruiser as its not really the type of car to have any fun in, I really like my 330i but I just accept it for what it is which is a fairly boring motor with a nice smooth engine under the bonnet.

In fairness I always thought my E92 M3 was too much of a comfy cruiser as well but at least with that you could whip all the aids off and have some serious tyre smoking fun and that felt far better when it was being grabbed by the scruff of the neck.

I think if you want an enjoyable exciting drive other alternatives do it far better, I was hoping my E92 M3 would be the do it all car but for me there isn't such a thing you are better off imo with something nice as a daily and something exciting in the garage for the weekends that is a genuine focused drivers car like a Lotus/Caterham/Porsche rather than a 3 series in a nice dress.

I think you're right. I was hoping that the E91 330i would be able to reward rather a bit more than it does, but it does seem to have been intentionally held back by BMW so that it understeers quite badly when pushed, the electronic safety nets cut in very early etc. It definitely feels like it's designed very much for Joe average, rather than for anyone with slightly higher expectations.

I tried the weekend car a few years back and got frustrated because the weekend car got very little use and the daily was a terrible Mondeo. I think the only solution is to talk the Mrs around to getting another M-car again.

Edited by bennyboysvuk on Friday 4th April 14:17

[bennyboysvuk]

jayemm89 said:

I am curious why you need cruise control with the DSC/DTC off?

Surely one only turns those off when hooning and if you've got cruise on, you're not hooning.

Sadly my 3 series knowledge begins and ends with the E46, but my 6-series is of the same vintage as the E9x and so might share electronics. It certainly has DTC, so I will test it today and see if I can get cruise with it off.

James

My regular commute has several roundabouts, stop start situations and junctions. I probably use cruise 9 or 10 separate times on my commute and in between each time is a roundabout or junction where the car responds better with all nannying electronics turned off. The DTC requires me to hold it down for about 3 seconds each time to deactivate it, at which point the cruise switches off too. So, on one journey, I need to press the DTC button 18 times overall, which takes 27 seconds, whereas what I want to do is press it once at the start of my journey and forget about it.

It seems that the M3 electronics are better set up and isn't afflicted by such silliness.

[cerb4.5lee]

bennyboysvuk said:

I tried the weekend car a few years back and got frustrated because the weekend car got very little use and the daily was a terrible Mondeo. I think the only solution is to talk the Mrs around to getting another M-car again.

Edited by bennyboysvuk on Friday 4th April 14:17

I also ran a couple of Mondeo`s when I had my TVR so I understand what you mean, then when I sold the TVR for my Z4M I was running my 520d tourer and I got frustrated too as that was gutless to use day to day and I hated it plus I was hardly using my Z4M so it seemed like a waste so that's why I went with my E92 M3 in the end but that for me wasn't the right choice either.

I now miss having a weekend motor so in the future I will look to get one again I think but like you I did wonder why I was driving a slow car day to day when I had something quickish in the garage its tough to know what the best thing to do is.

You have your awesome motorbike for proper speed thrills so that's a real bonus.

[astirling]

bennyboysvuk said:

jayemm89 said:

I am curious why you need cruise control with the DSC/DTC off?

Surely one only turns those off when hooning and if you've got cruise on, you're not hooning.

Sadly my 3 series knowledge begins and ends with the E46, but my 6-series is of the same vintage as the E9x and so might share electronics. It certainly has DTC, so I will test it today and see if I can get cruise with it off.

James

My regular commute has several roundabouts, stop start situations and junctions. I probably use cruise 9 or 10 separate times on my commute and in between each time is a roundabout or junction where the car responds better with all nannying electronics turned off. The DTC requires me to hold it down for about 3 seconds each time to deactivate it, at which point the cruise switches off too. So, on one journey, I need to press the DTC button 18 times overall, which takes 27 seconds, whereas what I want to do is press it once at the start of my journey and forget about it.

It seems that the M3 electronics are better set up and isn't afflicted by such silliness.

I'm still not sure I understand why you need to turn all the aids off of every roundabout on your commute....?

[Patrick Bateman]

What on earth?

[CooperS]

astirling said:

bennyboysvuk said:

jayemm89 said:

I am curious why you need cruise control with the DSC/DTC off?

Surely one only turns those off when hooning and if you've got cruise on, you're not hooning.

Sadly my 3 series knowledge begins and ends with the E46, but my 6-series is of the same vintage as the E9x and so might share electronics. It certainly has DTC, so I will test it today and see if I can get cruise with it off.

James

My regular commute has several roundabouts, stop start situations and junctions. I probably use cruise 9 or 10 separate times on my commute and in between each time is a roundabout or junction where the car responds better with all nannying electronics turned off. The DTC requires me to hold it down for about 3 seconds each time to deactivate it, at which point the cruise switches off too. So, on one journey, I need to press the DTC button 18 times overall, which takes 27 seconds, whereas what I want to do is press it once at the start of my journey and forget about it.

It seems that the M3 electronics are better set up and isn't afflicted by such silliness.

I'm still not sure I understand why you need to turn all the aids off of every roundabout on your commute....?

I'm confused by that notion too. I understand why you want to turn it all off for that Sunday hoon with no one around. But why you would need to make more progress than that allowed on a Tuesday morning with the safety facilities turned on I don't know?

Then to add to that and what I am really confused about is why you want to take corners at high speed on cruise control and why these corners could be taken at greater speeds without DTC on!!! Please don't come anywhere near me.

[djtex]

This thread is bizarre in the extreme. As everyone else has said having Cruise on seems utterly at odds with turning the systems off.

Can't think of a time I'd ever want to do this in mine.

[JNW1]

When I started to read this thread I assumed it must have been started on 1st April but apparently not! Bizarre to me that a) anyone would want to use cruise control on a busy commute and b) would also want to disable things like DSC whilst doing so...

[Wills2]

scarebus said:

To answer your question, cruise control works with MDM active and DSC off on the M3.

Not on mine it doesn't, MDM yes, DSC Off no.

But what a truly bizarre question and driving technique from the OP, I've always wondered why people crash but now I know!

[scarebus]

Now now guys, there's no need to slag the poor chap off. Some traction control systems are just too intrusive, I turned off the DSC on my old M5 e39 on virtually every journey, it just killed the momentum of any brisk progress. Other modern systems are kinder and can be left on.
I can see why if a journey that involves lots of dual carriageways broken up by many roundabouts (example A47) would be relevant to the OPs question, having cruise control with DSC that doesn't interfer too much leaving roundabouts.

[djtex]

scarebus said:

Now now guys, there's no need to slag the poor chap off. Some traction control systems are just too intrusive, I turned off the DSC on my old M5 e39 on virtually every journey, it just killed the momentum of any brisk progress. Other modern systems are kinder and can be left on.
I can see why if a journey that involves lots of dual carriageways broken up by many roundabouts (example A47) would be relevant to the OPs question, having cruise control with DSC that doesn't interfer too much leaving roundabouts.

I drive my hard E92 pretty hard and the MDM mode rarely has to do anything to take up the slack. Maybe on older stuff but certainly on a Comp Pack the amount of slip allowed before intervention is considerable. I'd go as far as to say OP is talking boulderdash.

[Wills2]

scarebus said:

Now now guys, there's no need to slag the poor chap off. Some traction control systems are just too intrusive, I turned off the DSC on my old M5 e39 on virtually every journey, it just killed the momentum of any brisk progress. Other modern systems are kinder and can be left on.
I can see why if a journey that involves lots of dual carriageways broken up by many roundabouts (example A47) would be relevant to the OPs question, having cruise control with DSC that doesn't interfer too much leaving roundabouts.

But surely when you're "on it" and the DSC/DTC whatever is interfering too much why the hell would you be using cruise control? It's weird plan and simple.

How would it even work? Set a fast road speed and hold on for dear life!?

Anyway it's a moot point because you can't use cruise when the DSC is off in the M3 either and for good reason as well, you need to be in control of the car using the brakes, gears and throttle to balance the car etc...not stabbing at buttons on the steering wheel.