"M" car reliability - thoughts...
Discussion
Before I open this can of worms can I make one thing clear...I’m not a mechanic so this is just my thoughts / opinions after owning various "normal" cars and two "M" cars (E46 M3 / F10 M5) and I’m wondered what other people think...
The question of reliability understandably comes up constantly on forums, as we’ve all seen, along with warranty choices etc. but this recent post of a newly purchase 8 year old car, in stunning condition, got me wondering...are "M" cars potentially more reliable / safer purchases than "normal" cars?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Before everyone bursts into laughter let me explain my reason for that question...
Due to their performance focused design and purchase / running costs "M" cars tend to be bought by people who know what they’re buying. The countless posts about "How best to run-in the engine", "What oil is best", "Should I service every 6 months" etc. shows a level of care beyond what you’d expect from the average car owner. Then there’s post after post documenting every fault that could ever happen and advice freely given as to what to look for and how to fix. Just on PistonHeads alone we have over 140,000 posts in the "M" section so there’s a wealth of knowledge and experience being used by owners daily so again the level of care with these vehicles appears extremely high. I think it’s also fair to say that this level of care remains constant (if it doesn’t increase) once these cars enter the used car market...they’re bought by like-minded enthusiast. Let's not forget that "M" cars are also designed to be worked hard (upgraded cooling / upgraded oil and oil distribution / upgraded handling etc.) which brings me onto another point about reliability...
I also own a 1998 Yamaha R1. For those who don’t know it’s a 1,000cc super-sports bike which changed the definition of what a super-sports bike is (Yamaha crammed a 1,000cc engine into a 600cc frame and stood back as the world was forced to recalibrate their expectations). The 4 cylinder engine is designed to red-line just shy of 12,000 rpm so it’s also built to be worked hard. I bought the bike 15 years ago and I show the same level of care as I did with the M3 and as I do with the M5...it’s never let me down as a result.
So my question stands...
Because most "M" cars are built to be worked hard, are owned by enthusiast who maintain their cars to a very high standard and believe generally that prevention is better than cure are they not actually more reliable and a safer purchase than "normal" cars?
The question of reliability understandably comes up constantly on forums, as we’ve all seen, along with warranty choices etc. but this recent post of a newly purchase 8 year old car, in stunning condition, got me wondering...are "M" cars potentially more reliable / safer purchases than "normal" cars?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Before everyone bursts into laughter let me explain my reason for that question...
Due to their performance focused design and purchase / running costs "M" cars tend to be bought by people who know what they’re buying. The countless posts about "How best to run-in the engine", "What oil is best", "Should I service every 6 months" etc. shows a level of care beyond what you’d expect from the average car owner. Then there’s post after post documenting every fault that could ever happen and advice freely given as to what to look for and how to fix. Just on PistonHeads alone we have over 140,000 posts in the "M" section so there’s a wealth of knowledge and experience being used by owners daily so again the level of care with these vehicles appears extremely high. I think it’s also fair to say that this level of care remains constant (if it doesn’t increase) once these cars enter the used car market...they’re bought by like-minded enthusiast. Let's not forget that "M" cars are also designed to be worked hard (upgraded cooling / upgraded oil and oil distribution / upgraded handling etc.) which brings me onto another point about reliability...
I also own a 1998 Yamaha R1. For those who don’t know it’s a 1,000cc super-sports bike which changed the definition of what a super-sports bike is (Yamaha crammed a 1,000cc engine into a 600cc frame and stood back as the world was forced to recalibrate their expectations). The 4 cylinder engine is designed to red-line just shy of 12,000 rpm so it’s also built to be worked hard. I bought the bike 15 years ago and I show the same level of care as I did with the M3 and as I do with the M5...it’s never let me down as a result.
So my question stands...
Because most "M" cars are built to be worked hard, are owned by enthusiast who maintain their cars to a very high standard and believe generally that prevention is better than cure are they not actually more reliable and a safer purchase than "normal" cars?
They're also a lot more complicated compared to the cooking models (e.g. E60 M5) or the extra power causes issues (e.g. E46 subframe cracking).
The key is to have done the research and buy a car which has all the common problem fixed! Over the lifetime of the car, an M car will definitely not be more reliable than a standard one.
The key is to have done the research and buy a car which has all the common problem fixed! Over the lifetime of the car, an M car will definitely not be more reliable than a standard one.
Think it depends on te model.
The Z4m for example does not have electric steering, so the Sticky Steering issue which is common on non M is not an issue.
I don't see any reason a M car should be less reliable than a non M car, but I expect they would cost a lot more to maintain with brakes etc!
The Z4m for example does not have electric steering, so the Sticky Steering issue which is common on non M is not an issue.
I don't see any reason a M car should be less reliable than a non M car, but I expect they would cost a lot more to maintain with brakes etc!
This may be going off an a tangent a bit, but I've noticed that my body takes an absolute hammering when I drive my M5 compared to when I drive my wife's 116i, and I believe it's purely down to one thing: the speed at which you can travel over Britain's appalling roads in such a rapid car.
I live in a semi-rural area with many country lanes (well-sighted, but narrow and bumpy). On roads that I'd travel at 60-70ish in my wife's car I find myself doing an easy 100+. The stress on the car must be greater, but the 5 series feels a lot better built than the 1 series and much more able to cope with the speed.
I live in a semi-rural area with many country lanes (well-sighted, but narrow and bumpy). On roads that I'd travel at 60-70ish in my wife's car I find myself doing an easy 100+. The stress on the car must be greater, but the 5 series feels a lot better built than the 1 series and much more able to cope with the speed.
So a major factor then is down to the original platform with which the car was based and how comprehensive / bullet-proof the M Division upgrades were on each model. Any platform weaknesses will become apparent over time (as I understand it the sub-frame issue is an E46 issue across the board rather than an E46 M3 issue - although obviously the power output of the M3 can exacerbate things).
However my point is, with the odd exception, the M parts are subject to obsessive levels of care / maintenance so on balance, given a clean service history, M cars should be very reliable.
Interestingly I’ve just done a vehicle enquiry on my old E46 M3 and it was not MOT’d after it expired in March 2012. It was a 2001 car which I sold mid-2004 with 96,000 miles on the clock to a gentleman who was going to use it as his daily drive so I imagine the mileage was substantial by 2012.
Link if you want to play...
https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
However my point is, with the odd exception, the M parts are subject to obsessive levels of care / maintenance so on balance, given a clean service history, M cars should be very reliable.
Interestingly I’ve just done a vehicle enquiry on my old E46 M3 and it was not MOT’d after it expired in March 2012. It was a 2001 car which I sold mid-2004 with 96,000 miles on the clock to a gentleman who was going to use it as his daily drive so I imagine the mileage was substantial by 2012.
Link if you want to play...
https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
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