F10 M5 - first ever BMW, first impressions
Discussion
I have had my F10 for about 5 weeks now and just last night picked it up having had the running in service completed.
It came new from Rybrook Shrewsbuty on a great deal as a pre-reg car. The buying and collection experience were both very positive and a good advert for the BMW brand.
The car is sapphire black with Silverstone interior and the options are HK audio, 20" silver alloys, Internet, speed limit display, split fold seats, reversing camera and online entertainment. I've also added black grilles and gills.
As stated this is my first ever BMW, against all common sense it was bought from afar and with no prior test drive, and in many ways is the product of scratching a persistent itch to own and live with an M car. I looked at an M3 but found an inflexible local dealer and even with a bit of web trawling via the brokers I couldn't find an M3 to my spec on a better deal than I ended up getting on this car.
Final piece of context, this car will be my daily driver and replaces two AMGs as the last cars in that role, first one was a C63 estate and most recent a CLS 63 Shooting Brake which I had mapped and downpiped to 750+ which regularly appeared at VMAX last year and did 4 up passenger laps at the Supercar Event at Dunsfold.
So what's it like ?
Well I think it has the potential to be brilliant.
There are aspects of this car which are really excellent; the gearbox is leagues ahead of the competition, the in cabin technology is terrific (online entertainment, HUD, and M lap timer are particular favourites), it is superbly well built and the mid range thump is astonishing, Ian's whilst I've had little opportunity to test it thoroughly the handling for a car of this size is very adept indeed.
It is though a big car which is fine (the last Merc in particular wasn't exactly svelte) but the interior space is woeful in comparison to the external dimensions. Not a massive problem but a bit frustrating when a 6 year old is complaining of not enough knee room behind me.
The big issue though for me is the lack of drama. In both AMGs every trip felt like an event, in this car I feel that less thus far. Bluntly it's too quiet and too smooth. It's a cliche but it's far far too easy to be driving along and then realise licence losing numbers are about to come into view.
Please don't go getting any ideas I'm a Corsa Barry but this car needs more aural oomph. The exhaust is getting a little louder over time and I'm interested to see if the ECU unlock I was told is part of the service is real or placebo but I still think it needs more.
So I'm off to explore my options, downpipes with a valve switch added to the OEM back box plus a map look like the preferred route. Watch this space !
It came new from Rybrook Shrewsbuty on a great deal as a pre-reg car. The buying and collection experience were both very positive and a good advert for the BMW brand.
The car is sapphire black with Silverstone interior and the options are HK audio, 20" silver alloys, Internet, speed limit display, split fold seats, reversing camera and online entertainment. I've also added black grilles and gills.
As stated this is my first ever BMW, against all common sense it was bought from afar and with no prior test drive, and in many ways is the product of scratching a persistent itch to own and live with an M car. I looked at an M3 but found an inflexible local dealer and even with a bit of web trawling via the brokers I couldn't find an M3 to my spec on a better deal than I ended up getting on this car.
Final piece of context, this car will be my daily driver and replaces two AMGs as the last cars in that role, first one was a C63 estate and most recent a CLS 63 Shooting Brake which I had mapped and downpiped to 750+ which regularly appeared at VMAX last year and did 4 up passenger laps at the Supercar Event at Dunsfold.
So what's it like ?
Well I think it has the potential to be brilliant.
There are aspects of this car which are really excellent; the gearbox is leagues ahead of the competition, the in cabin technology is terrific (online entertainment, HUD, and M lap timer are particular favourites), it is superbly well built and the mid range thump is astonishing, Ian's whilst I've had little opportunity to test it thoroughly the handling for a car of this size is very adept indeed.
It is though a big car which is fine (the last Merc in particular wasn't exactly svelte) but the interior space is woeful in comparison to the external dimensions. Not a massive problem but a bit frustrating when a 6 year old is complaining of not enough knee room behind me.
The big issue though for me is the lack of drama. In both AMGs every trip felt like an event, in this car I feel that less thus far. Bluntly it's too quiet and too smooth. It's a cliche but it's far far too easy to be driving along and then realise licence losing numbers are about to come into view.
Please don't go getting any ideas I'm a Corsa Barry but this car needs more aural oomph. The exhaust is getting a little louder over time and I'm interested to see if the ECU unlock I was told is part of the service is real or placebo but I still think it needs more.
So I'm off to explore my options, downpipes with a valve switch added to the OEM back box plus a map look like the preferred route. Watch this space !
RSK21 said:
I have had my F10 for about 5 weeks now and just last night picked it up having had the running in service completed.
It came new from Rybrook Shrewsbuty on a great deal as a pre-reg car. The buying and collection experience were both very positive and a good advert for the BMW brand.
The car is sapphire black with Silverstone interior and the options are HK audio, 20" silver alloys, Internet, speed limit display, split fold seats, reversing camera and online entertainment. I've also added black grilles and gills.
As stated this is my first ever BMW, against all common sense it was bought from afar and with no prior test drive, and in many ways is the product of scratching a persistent itch to own and live with an M car. I looked at an M3 but found an inflexible local dealer and even with a bit of web trawling via the brokers I couldn't find an M3 to my spec on a better deal than I ended up getting on this car.
Final piece of context, this car will be my daily driver and replaces two AMGs as the last cars in that role, first one was a C63 estate and most recent a CLS 63 Shooting Brake which I had mapped and downpiped to 750+ which regularly appeared at VMAX last year and did 4 up passenger laps at the Supercar Event at Dunsfold.
So what's it like ?
Well I think it has the potential to be brilliant.
There are aspects of this car which are really excellent; the gearbox is leagues ahead of the competition, the in cabin technology is terrific (online entertainment, HUD, and M lap timer are particular favourites), it is superbly well built and the mid range thump is astonishing, Ian's whilst I've had little opportunity to test it thoroughly the handling for a car of this size is very adept indeed.
It is though a big car which is fine (the last Merc in particular wasn't exactly svelte) but the interior space is woeful in comparison to the external dimensions. Not a massive problem but a bit frustrating when a 6 year old is complaining of not enough knee room behind me.
The big issue though for me is the lack of drama. In both AMGs every trip felt like an event, in this car I feel that less thus far. Bluntly it's too quiet and too smooth. It's a cliche but it's far far too easy to be driving along and then realise licence losing numbers are about to come into view.
Please don't go getting any ideas I'm a Corsa Barry but this car needs more aural oomph. The exhaust is getting a little louder over time and I'm interested to see if the ECU unlock I was told is part of the service is real or placebo but I still think it needs more.
So I'm off to explore my options, downpipes with a valve switch added to the OEM back box plus a map look like the preferred route. Watch this space !
Good write up & solid points.It came new from Rybrook Shrewsbuty on a great deal as a pre-reg car. The buying and collection experience were both very positive and a good advert for the BMW brand.
The car is sapphire black with Silverstone interior and the options are HK audio, 20" silver alloys, Internet, speed limit display, split fold seats, reversing camera and online entertainment. I've also added black grilles and gills.
As stated this is my first ever BMW, against all common sense it was bought from afar and with no prior test drive, and in many ways is the product of scratching a persistent itch to own and live with an M car. I looked at an M3 but found an inflexible local dealer and even with a bit of web trawling via the brokers I couldn't find an M3 to my spec on a better deal than I ended up getting on this car.
Final piece of context, this car will be my daily driver and replaces two AMGs as the last cars in that role, first one was a C63 estate and most recent a CLS 63 Shooting Brake which I had mapped and downpiped to 750+ which regularly appeared at VMAX last year and did 4 up passenger laps at the Supercar Event at Dunsfold.
So what's it like ?
Well I think it has the potential to be brilliant.
There are aspects of this car which are really excellent; the gearbox is leagues ahead of the competition, the in cabin technology is terrific (online entertainment, HUD, and M lap timer are particular favourites), it is superbly well built and the mid range thump is astonishing, Ian's whilst I've had little opportunity to test it thoroughly the handling for a car of this size is very adept indeed.
It is though a big car which is fine (the last Merc in particular wasn't exactly svelte) but the interior space is woeful in comparison to the external dimensions. Not a massive problem but a bit frustrating when a 6 year old is complaining of not enough knee room behind me.
The big issue though for me is the lack of drama. In both AMGs every trip felt like an event, in this car I feel that less thus far. Bluntly it's too quiet and too smooth. It's a cliche but it's far far too easy to be driving along and then realise licence losing numbers are about to come into view.
Please don't go getting any ideas I'm a Corsa Barry but this car needs more aural oomph. The exhaust is getting a little louder over time and I'm interested to see if the ECU unlock I was told is part of the service is real or placebo but I still think it needs more.
So I'm off to explore my options, downpipes with a valve switch added to the OEM back box plus a map look like the preferred route. Watch this space !
Having had mine for near on 18mths i can agree with most of the above, however i really don't find the cabin wanting for space & feel it's comparable with the size of the car. It's only a mid size saloon & it does that (i think). Secondly the aural drama & this is of course down to personal taste, i like the fact it makes enough noise to be interesting but doesn't shout about it in the same way as the AMG. I regularly do 500 mile round trips & appreciate during those drives the civility of my journey, however when i take her out on track & apply measures of Sport Plus, believe me she shouts & screams (also pops & crackles on upshifts) like a girl possessed. Being honest the AMG's tour de force is the noise as the cars are lacking in drivability, cabin refinement & overall driving pleasure, but they do make a great noise. I'd rather the overall package being close to perfect & forgo any shouting about it, if i wanted a loud car then i'd not be spending money on anything German & go hunting for a genuine Italian thoroughbred.
Plenty of shouty zorsts available on the market including DP's & a couple of options for tuning. You can hard wire the exhaust flaps open so the enhanced sound when in Sport Plus mode can be had constantly.
Personally i like my fast saloons to look & sound as discreet as possible, that's the purpose of the car after all.
Ps. your dealer is talking BS regarding the ECU unlock. The only thing performed at the 1200 miles service is a fluid change (engine & diff i believe).
Welcome - will be interesting to get your insights as the relationship with your car develops and your comparison to the AMGs (was the last one turbo or na?)
I'd echo many of your comments - in particular would be great to have a bit more drama inside the car.
Surprised about the comment on space - not had that personally and I'm over 6ft with my 'kids' now 17 and 25 and occasional long journeys with them don't cause any complaints. I imagine the M3 would have been slightly more cramped.
I'd echo many of your comments - in particular would be great to have a bit more drama inside the car.
Surprised about the comment on space - not had that personally and I'm over 6ft with my 'kids' now 17 and 25 and occasional long journeys with them don't cause any complaints. I imagine the M3 would have been slightly more cramped.
No drama but only just had the running in service - I'll be interested to hear if your opinion changes over the course of the next few weeks now that you can turn the dial up to 10.
I presume you didn't have it serviced in Shrewsbury because I picked mine up from a service there last night and didn't see any others
I presume you didn't have it serviced in Shrewsbury because I picked mine up from a service there last night and didn't see any others
Having just moved to an F10 M5 (Monte Carlo Blue) from a B7 RS4 I can agree with a lot of what you're saying.
I'm not sure I agree about the interior space though (which feels quite big to me) but perhaps its that it doesn't seem to match the external proportions that feel gigantic!
Definitely feel that aural drama is missing and think I'm probably weeks away from wiring the exhaust flaps. I wish it would make the same noise all the time that it makes when you first start it on a cold morning (although my neighbours are less impressed)!
I'm properly in love with the HUD but turned off the speed limit indicator after a few days - It often was incorrect (both too high or too low) but also made me a bit blasé about keeping my own eyes on the speed limit. Not a good idea with 560BHP!
My favourite thing though? It's got to be the way it switches from 'calm luxury cruiser' to 'Blahahahahahhahah' with just one button
I'm not sure I agree about the interior space though (which feels quite big to me) but perhaps its that it doesn't seem to match the external proportions that feel gigantic!
Definitely feel that aural drama is missing and think I'm probably weeks away from wiring the exhaust flaps. I wish it would make the same noise all the time that it makes when you first start it on a cold morning (although my neighbours are less impressed)!
I'm properly in love with the HUD but turned off the speed limit indicator after a few days - It often was incorrect (both too high or too low) but also made me a bit blasé about keeping my own eyes on the speed limit. Not a good idea with 560BHP!
My favourite thing though? It's got to be the way it switches from 'calm luxury cruiser' to 'Blahahahahahhahah' with just one button
W8PMC said:
Good write up & solid points.
Having had mine for near on 18mths i can agree with most of the above, however i really don't find the cabin wanting for space & feel it's comparable with the size of the car. It's only a mid size saloon & it does that (i think). Secondly the aural drama & this is of course down to personal taste, i like the fact it makes enough noise to be interesting but doesn't shout about it in the same way as the AMG. I regularly do 500 mile round trips & appreciate during those drives the civility of my journey, however when i take her out on track & apply measures of Sport Plus, believe me she shouts & screams (also pops & crackles on upshifts) like a girl possessed. Being honest the AMG's tour de force is the noise as the cars are lacking in drivability, cabin refinement & overall driving pleasure, but they do make a great noise. I'd rather the overall package being close to perfect & forgo any shouting about it, if i wanted a loud car then i'd not be spending money on anything German & go hunting for a genuine Italian thoroughbred.
Plenty of shouty zorsts available on the market including DP's & a couple of options for tuning. You can hard wire the exhaust flaps open so the enhanced sound when in Sport Plus mode can be had constantly.
Personally i like my fast saloons to look & sound as discreet as possible, that's the purpose of the car after all.
Ps. your dealer is talking BS regarding the ECU unlock. The only thing performed at the 1200 miles service is a fluid change (engine & diff i believe).
Thanks for the response.Having had mine for near on 18mths i can agree with most of the above, however i really don't find the cabin wanting for space & feel it's comparable with the size of the car. It's only a mid size saloon & it does that (i think). Secondly the aural drama & this is of course down to personal taste, i like the fact it makes enough noise to be interesting but doesn't shout about it in the same way as the AMG. I regularly do 500 mile round trips & appreciate during those drives the civility of my journey, however when i take her out on track & apply measures of Sport Plus, believe me she shouts & screams (also pops & crackles on upshifts) like a girl possessed. Being honest the AMG's tour de force is the noise as the cars are lacking in drivability, cabin refinement & overall driving pleasure, but they do make a great noise. I'd rather the overall package being close to perfect & forgo any shouting about it, if i wanted a loud car then i'd not be spending money on anything German & go hunting for a genuine Italian thoroughbred.
Plenty of shouty zorsts available on the market including DP's & a couple of options for tuning. You can hard wire the exhaust flaps open so the enhanced sound when in Sport Plus mode can be had constantly.
Personally i like my fast saloons to look & sound as discreet as possible, that's the purpose of the car after all.
Ps. your dealer is talking BS regarding the ECU unlock. The only thing performed at the 1200 miles service is a fluid change (engine & diff i believe).
Couple of things:
I think the AMGs aren't fun to drive is a bit of a myth. I'd agree that the mainstream model based stuff is (C, E, CLS etc) are not quite as precise as M equivalents (The bespoke SLS and GT are in another league) they are still massively good fun and quick laps etc. when got right feel great. I tracked and toured extensively in both of mine and they never failed to raise a smile. I'd agree with the comment regarding cabin quality both in terms of general build and also functionality.
Ref the noise point I agree that subtlety is a virtue, I love the fact that the car is visually such a sleeper and that's exactly why both my Mercs were estate variants too. It's also why I'm going to be exploring a switchable and visually OEM based solution .
Interested to hear about the ECU calibration point as the dealer was at pains to point this out. Can't say I noticed any difference albeit it was peeing it down last night so it wasn't remotely appropriate to test.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th November 12:37
pjv997 said:
Welcome - will be interesting to get your insights as the relationship with your car develops and your comparison to the AMGs (was the last one turbo or na?)
I'd echo many of your comments - in particular would be great to have a bit more drama inside the car.
Surprised about the comment on space - not had that personally and I'm over 6ft with my 'kids' now 17 and 25 and occasional long journeys with them don't cause any complaints. I imagine the M3 would have been slightly more cramped.
Hello - thanks for the welcome. I'd echo many of your comments - in particular would be great to have a bit more drama inside the car.
Surprised about the comment on space - not had that personally and I'm over 6ft with my 'kids' now 17 and 25 and occasional long journeys with them don't cause any complaints. I imagine the M3 would have been slightly more cramped.
Yes I intend to keep the forum updated as I grow into the car over time.
I think the space issue is driven by a combination of the vastness of the CLS and the fact that said 6 year old sits in a booster seat behind a 6 ft 2 lump !
theboss said:
No drama but only just had the running in service - I'll be interested to hear if your opinion changes over the course of the next few weeks now that you can turn the dial up to 10.
I presume you didn't have it serviced in Shrewsbury because I picked mine up from a service there last night and didn't see any others
HelloI presume you didn't have it serviced in Shrewsbury because I picked mine up from a service there last night and didn't see any others
No serviced at the less flexible dealers a bit further south and east !
RSK21 said:
Thanks for the response.
Couple of things:
I think the AMGs aren't fun to drive is a bit of a myth. I'd agree that the mainstream model based stuff is (C, E, CLS etc) are not quite as precise as M equivalents (The bespoke SLS and GT are in another league) they are still massively good fun and quick laps etc. when got right feel great. I tracked and toured extensively in both of mine and they never failed to raise a smile. I'd agree with the comment regarding cabin quality both in terms of general build and also functionality.
Ref the noise point I agree that subtlety is a virtue, I love the fact that the car is visually such a sleeper and that's exactly why both my Mercs were estate variants too. It's also why I'm going to be exploring a switchable and visually OEM based solution .
Interested to hear about the ECU calibration point as the dealer was at pains to point this out. Can't say I noticed any difference albeit it was peeing it down last night so it wasn't remotely appropriate to test.
Good point & i should clarify i wasn't saying the AMG's aren't fun to drive, as clearly (not counting the newest AMG incarnations which i have no experience of), 6.2 litres of RWD V8 muscle is always going to be fun to drive, i just never felt the chassis, transmission & general drivability of the overall package was on a par with the M5. Naturally i'm going to say that as i chose an M5 over the E63, but the only factor of the E63 i found to be better in any measure than the M5 was the noise & this to be honest wasn't an issue for me. Also excluding the AWD E63S those Yanks can choose, the M5 battered it's comparable AMG in all aspects of performance so it became a no brainer for me. That though isn't taking anything away from the AMG's, just confirming how well BMW M did when putting the F10 M5 together.Couple of things:
I think the AMGs aren't fun to drive is a bit of a myth. I'd agree that the mainstream model based stuff is (C, E, CLS etc) are not quite as precise as M equivalents (The bespoke SLS and GT are in another league) they are still massively good fun and quick laps etc. when got right feel great. I tracked and toured extensively in both of mine and they never failed to raise a smile. I'd agree with the comment regarding cabin quality both in terms of general build and also functionality.
Ref the noise point I agree that subtlety is a virtue, I love the fact that the car is visually such a sleeper and that's exactly why both my Mercs were estate variants too. It's also why I'm going to be exploring a switchable and visually OEM based solution .
Interested to hear about the ECU calibration point as the dealer was at pains to point this out. Can't say I noticed any difference albeit it was peeing it down last night so it wasn't remotely appropriate to test.
Edited by RSK21 on Friday 6th November 12:37
For me it's the perfect all round car, but then in my mind mine's a bit special.
Edited by W8PMC on Friday 6th November 16:45
One the noise front, even the stock exhaust produces plenty of noise at WOT but the platform used for the F10 is shared with the 7 series and therefore the refinement levels are perhaps too high for what is meant to be a sporty car, stand behind one and it sounds great but you can't hear that in the well insulated cabin, they tried to get round that with the fake noise through the speakers but it's not like having the real deal.
I'm getting a new set of rear mufflers fitted next week to hopefully address the issue, putting on a set of lowered ACS springs has transformed the traction and handling whilst making the car feel more connected as well.
I'm getting a new set of rear mufflers fitted next week to hopefully address the issue, putting on a set of lowered ACS springs has transformed the traction and handling whilst making the car feel more connected as well.
Helicopter123 said:
As a potential buyer, I've struggling to see the benefit of an M5 over say a 535D if no more excitement?
Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
Semi facetious answer = it's not a dieselQuite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
Less facetious the box, chassis set up, steering, rev range, configurability all make a substantial difference when combined.
Lastly I think that with just a small tweak that missing piece can be added in hence my comment about potentially brilliant,
Helicopter123 said:
As a potential buyer, I've struggling to see the benefit of an M5 over say a 535D if no more excitement?
Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
The M5 is an uber saloon so is meant to be refinement twinned with intergalactic performance, so job done in a way nothing else in the F10 range can get anywhere near.Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
I recall when i had an E60 M5 folk (who didn't own one) thought a tuned 535d was 'nearly' as quick in the real world. Same was said about the M3 vs 335d/335i & again it was by people who didn't own or had never driven an M.
Helicopter123 said:
As a potential buyer, I've struggling to see the benefit of an M5 over say a 535D if no more excitement?
Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
To me the M5 is like a 535d with split personality disorder - in the default 'comfort' setup and with revs below about 4k it can waft around just like the diesel and with effortless in-gear torque/power delivery which is somewhat equivalent to a remapped 535d.Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
Put the M5 in a more aggressive setup accessible via one press of a button and then run it to the redline through 2nd and 3rd and it's a totally different machine.
Personally I find the balance struck between 'refined' daily cruiser and 'mental' is very very good and suits me well according to situations I typically drive in, but that perception will differ between owners.
Helicopter123 said:
As a potential buyer, I've struggling to see the benefit of an M5 over say a 535D if no more excitement?
Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
With everything turned up to 11 in the M5 makes a 535d feel limp wristed and ponderous, we're talking about slight adjustments to a great car that could/would make it even better. Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
I had an E60 535d and I was very impressed with it. But the only benefits I can see for the 535d over the M5 are financial - fuel consumption, general running costs and initial capital cost.
And if you actually spec up a 535d to a similar level to an M5, you will find that the difference in capital cost is not as great as you originally think.
As said above, M5 can pretty much do whatever the 535d can do with equal aplomb (fuel efficiency aside) but there is a lot an M5 can do that the 535d will be nowhere near. Whether those capabilities are worth the extra initial outlay and higher running costs is down to individual preference.
And if you actually spec up a 535d to a similar level to an M5, you will find that the difference in capital cost is not as great as you originally think.
As said above, M5 can pretty much do whatever the 535d can do with equal aplomb (fuel efficiency aside) but there is a lot an M5 can do that the 535d will be nowhere near. Whether those capabilities are worth the extra initial outlay and higher running costs is down to individual preference.
Helicopter123 said:
As a potential buyer, I've struggling to see the benefit of an M5 over say a 535D if no more excitement?
Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
The trouble with the M6/6 is you just can't use the power here in the UK, I sold mine and bought the LCI M3, it goes well too 80/100 MPH, that does me here.Quite a few threads of late mentioning the "refinement" of the M5 in such a way that it's not a compliment...
OK refinement not quite up there but with Full leather I have it's good.
Edited by JMBMWM5 on Friday 6th November 18:24
JMBMWM5 said:
The trouble with the M6/6 is you just can't use the power here in the UK, I sold mine and bought the LCI M3, it goes well too 80/100 MPH, that does me here.
OK refinement not quite up there but with Full leather I have it's good.
I think you make a good point ref the looks and the accessible power - The M3 is so much better looking than the 4 to my eyes.OK refinement not quite up there but with Full leather I have it's good.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th November 18:24
My plan was for a sakhir 3 with black wheels to offset the carbon roof but I just couldnt ignore the deal I was offered on the 5.
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