Re-mapping a MK1 1.6 or 1.8 - what can I expect?
Discussion
Guys,
Please don't shoot me but I'm looking into either building a MK1 MX5 based Westfield or MNR Vortx 7'esque kit.
I know the 1.6 was 115bhp and the 1.8 was 130bhp when new, now as the kit will be pretty light I'm not too fussed about massive power (although a turbo/supercharger might be nice later on!!).
Was thinking of starting of with a basic ECU upgrade/remap but am unsire of the options available and what to expect. The only previous experience I have is a couple of mates who had a DASTEK chip upgrade/remap of their TVR's by Austec Racing which seemed to free up a few more ponies and provide more flexibility.
What are the options open in this area?
Thanks in advance.
Chris
Please don't shoot me but I'm looking into either building a MK1 MX5 based Westfield or MNR Vortx 7'esque kit.
I know the 1.6 was 115bhp and the 1.8 was 130bhp when new, now as the kit will be pretty light I'm not too fussed about massive power (although a turbo/supercharger might be nice later on!!).
Was thinking of starting of with a basic ECU upgrade/remap but am unsire of the options available and what to expect. The only previous experience I have is a couple of mates who had a DASTEK chip upgrade/remap of their TVR's by Austec Racing which seemed to free up a few more ponies and provide more flexibility.
What are the options open in this area?
Thanks in advance.
Chris
designforlife said:
AFAIK you can't remap any of the mk1 or mk2 stock engines/ecus due to them being locked down by mazda.
If that were possible we'd all be doing it rather than spending ££££ on turbos and superchargers!
You can remap them, but it's only relatively recently you've been able to (last 18 months).If that were possible we'd all be doing it rather than spending ££££ on turbos and superchargers!
AFAIK it's only US companies (Dynotronics / FM) that have the ability.
Even if it were it's no substitute for a turbo/supercharger. With a full replacement ECU fully tuned on an otherwise stock engine, you'll gain 10bhp, Peak. and even then that's in the midrange.
Even the most basic turbo kit adds 50bhp and a shedload of torque. There's zero comparison.
Woody said:
hmmmmmm, OK so not quite as straight forward as I was expecting.
What about aftermarket ECU's?
Is the only option to go FI??
Was hoping to not have to spend £2 on a turbo/supercharger.
Where are these £2 turbo's? :PWhat about aftermarket ECU's?
Is the only option to go FI??
Was hoping to not have to spend £2 on a turbo/supercharger.
The only option for a decent performance gain is Forced induction. You could do n/a mods, but £ per bhp it's far more costly.
Either FI or highly N/A modified you'll still need an aftermarket ECU, no ifs no buts.
As much as people say that the only thing to do is for Turbo - that's just not true.
An after market ECU can give benefits, in combination with a decent header, induction etc can give very useful improvements it seems, and even increased economy.
On the 1.8 you also have the option to do the exhintake Camshaft mod, or even (as I was going to do) fit a Mk2 BP4W cylinder head with VICS - the Mk2 head having much improved design.
Or, you could pick-up a Mk2 or even Mk2.5 complete engine and ecu - the Mk2.5 being 146bhp out of the box.
An after market ECU can give benefits, in combination with a decent header, induction etc can give very useful improvements it seems, and even increased economy.
On the 1.8 you also have the option to do the exhintake Camshaft mod, or even (as I was going to do) fit a Mk2 BP4W cylinder head with VICS - the Mk2 head having much improved design.
Or, you could pick-up a Mk2 or even Mk2.5 complete engine and ecu - the Mk2.5 being 146bhp out of the box.
14 degree timing mod plus an induction kit (or at least a better air filter) is about all you can do.
On frequently overlooked mod is nothing more than a new fuel filter! These hardly ever get changed so when you do, the result could surprise you (it did us with our track slag, it was like a different car afterwards!).
On frequently overlooked mod is nothing more than a new fuel filter! These hardly ever get changed so when you do, the result could surprise you (it did us with our track slag, it was like a different car afterwards!).
OK then, how much (realisticly) can you expect to pay to go down the FI route?
Did a quick google and came up with BEGI Shanghai Turbo Kit - anyone used this?
Cheers
Did a quick google and came up with BEGI Shanghai Turbo Kit - anyone used this?
Cheers
Woody said:
OK then, how much (realisticly) can you expect to pay to go down the FI route?
Did a quick google and came up with BEGI Shanghai Turbo Kit - anyone used this?
Cheers
I'm not sure how many places supply them in the UK. But http://www.everythingmx5.com/shanghai.php could probably give you a price in an e-mail.Did a quick google and came up with BEGI Shanghai Turbo Kit - anyone used this?
Cheers
I think running something like megasquirt you might unlock a few bhp with more aggressive timing but would require a fair amount of dyno time.
The main benefit of stand alone is that you can ditch the airflow meter, i believe these are quite restrictive and you can unlock about 5hp at the top end.
The main benefit of stand alone is that you can ditch the airflow meter, i believe these are quite restrictive and you can unlock about 5hp at the top end.
snotrag said:
As much as people say that the only thing to do is for Turbo - that's just not true.
An after market ECU can give benefits, in combination with a decent header, induction etc can give very useful improvements it seems, and even increased economy.
On the 1.8 you also have the option to do the exhintake Camshaft mod, or even (as I was going to do) fit a Mk2 BP4W cylinder head with VICS - the Mk2 head having much improved design.
Or, you could pick-up a Mk2 or even Mk2.5 complete engine and ecu - the Mk2.5 being 146bhp out of the box.
I never said there was no benefits did I?An after market ECU can give benefits, in combination with a decent header, induction etc can give very useful improvements it seems, and even increased economy.
On the 1.8 you also have the option to do the exhintake Camshaft mod, or even (as I was going to do) fit a Mk2 BP4W cylinder head with VICS - the Mk2 head having much improved design.
Or, you could pick-up a Mk2 or even Mk2.5 complete engine and ecu - the Mk2.5 being 146bhp out of the box.
Note I've had a MegaSquirt ECU on my car for the last 6+ years, AFAIK I was the first in the UK to fit one to an MX5, I'm well aware of the benefits and improvements you can get over stock.
It's about 10bhp in the midrange, tops.
What is undeniable is FI is far more cost effective on a £ per bhp ratio, which is what I stated.
Don't bank on improved economy though, through all these mods, you're kidding yourself if you are.
ady_GTi said:
The main benefit of stand alone is that you can ditch the airflow meter, i believe these are quite restrictive and you can unlock about 5hp at the top end.
Recently been proven that this is false (it being a restriction) by Nickpro who occasionally posts on www.MX5Nutz.com. Well on otherwise stock cars anyway.If you have FI and have the AFM fitted it's then a HUGE restriction.
Richyvrlimited said:
Recently been proven that this is false (it being a restriction) by Nickpro who occasionally posts on www.MX5Nutz.com. Well on otherwise stock cars anyway.
If you have FI and have the AFM fitted it's then a HUGE restriction.
But even then it doesn't stop big power being available, it just releases a bit more getting rid of it If you have FI and have the AFM fitted it's then a HUGE restriction.
Richyvrlimited said:
Don't bank on improved economy though, through all these mods, you're kidding yourself if you are.
My turbo Mk1 gets significantly better fuel economy (when not being thrashed) than the standard one I had before it. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it will be the case for every car, but its certainly that way with mine.Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 24th August 12:00
GravelBen said:
My turbo Mk1 gets significantly better fuel economy (when not being thrashed) than the standard one I had before it. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it will be the case for every car, but its certainly that way with mine.
Aye a turbo will, when well mapped as you're increasing the engines VE without adding much parastic load onto it.Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 24th August 12:00
That's why most OEM manufacturers are adding a turbo to everything now. More power from a smaller engine and improved efficiency.
Conversly my supercharger increases engine VE, BUT it has much more parasatic drag on the engine so MPG dropped a couple.
Woody said:
Cheers for all the info guys.
Have emailed a couple of companies who list 'remapping' of the '5 on their sites - will see what they say.
Is there any mileage in going down the after market ECU and Throttle bodies route??
Not really. the 5's engine is pretty balanced, in that just upgrading the intake or exhaust or even both has little effect, you need the engine to flow more air for them to be beneficial, they're not a restriction.Have emailed a couple of companies who list 'remapping' of the '5 on their sites - will see what they say.
Is there any mileage in going down the after market ECU and Throttle bodies route??
So lots of £$£$ on porting/valves etc to see a decent gain from IRTB's.
Prepare the bull$hit meter for the companies responses.
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