Are some watch collectors like hi-fi enthusiasts ?
Discussion
I was talking to somebody the other day who is a big hi-fi enthusiast, and it got me thinking. The person in question was far more interested in the quality of the sound, rather than the quality of music that comes out of the system in question. I can't help believing that some watch collectors are pretty much the same, and that isn't necessarily a criticism. My preferences are appearance, and quality for money spent, whilst some people just love a label and the attention to detail. For me the microscopic attention to detail is a waist of time, and more often than not a waist of money. Quality of sound from a £10k system rather than a £1k system is comparable to many watch comparisons. So, what do yer fink ?
I think this is a case of the law of diminishing returns.
In other words the cost/ quality relationship is something like exponential.
As far as hi-fi is concerned I realised a long time ago that my hearing (damaged years ago by gunfire and machinery noise) is such that there comes a stage where increasing investment is wasted on me.
As far as watches are concerned there is a similar relationship. You might be able to accept that, for example, a £4K watch is twice as good as a £2K one. However the difference between a £20K watch and a £40K watch may be harder to rationalise.
In other words the cost/ quality relationship is something like exponential.
As far as hi-fi is concerned I realised a long time ago that my hearing (damaged years ago by gunfire and machinery noise) is such that there comes a stage where increasing investment is wasted on me.
As far as watches are concerned there is a similar relationship. You might be able to accept that, for example, a £4K watch is twice as good as a £2K one. However the difference between a £20K watch and a £40K watch may be harder to rationalise.
TiggerBits said:
I was talking to somebody the other day who is a big hi-fi enthusiast, and it got me thinking. The person in question was far more interested in the quality of the sound, rather than the quality of music that comes out of the system in question. I can't help believing that some watch collectors are pretty much the same, and that isn't necessarily a criticism. My preferences are appearance, and quality for money spent, whilst some people just love a label and the attention to detail. For me the microscopic attention to detail is a waist of time, and more often than not a waist of money. Quality of sound from a £10k system rather than a £1k system is comparable to many watch comparisons. So, what do yer fink?
I fink yee need to learn the difference between yer gut and the correct usage of the word waste. Just sayin’ like, not judging.
Hmmm what an interesting analogy... Staying on the theme of music but deviating from then sound systems I have a question for you OP.
Let's take a song like - U2 with or without you. Quite an easily recognisable song, quite a good song (and that's coming from someone who hates bono). Now let's say U2 own all the rights and intellectual property to this song and still make plenty of loyalties from it. Now one day Justin Bieber decides he wants to use this song but U2 do not want to give him permission to do so. Justin Bieber decides he still wants to do it so he changes a few things like the name slightly, maybe a verse or 2 gets changed and the tempo is increased slightly. Now Justin Bieber is making £1 million just on release, but doesn't pay U2 a single dime. What would you think of beibers "new" song? Do you think Bieber did wrong? Like I mean the kids probably wouldn't care about whether or not beiber can play the instruments for the song or even if he wrote it. For them they liked the lyrics and melody. Is this wrong?
Let's take a song like - U2 with or without you. Quite an easily recognisable song, quite a good song (and that's coming from someone who hates bono). Now let's say U2 own all the rights and intellectual property to this song and still make plenty of loyalties from it. Now one day Justin Bieber decides he wants to use this song but U2 do not want to give him permission to do so. Justin Bieber decides he still wants to do it so he changes a few things like the name slightly, maybe a verse or 2 gets changed and the tempo is increased slightly. Now Justin Bieber is making £1 million just on release, but doesn't pay U2 a single dime. What would you think of beibers "new" song? Do you think Bieber did wrong? Like I mean the kids probably wouldn't care about whether or not beiber can play the instruments for the song or even if he wrote it. For them they liked the lyrics and melody. Is this wrong?
Jayho said:
Hmmm what an interesting analogy... Staying on the theme of music but deviating from then sound systems I have a question for you OP.
Let's take a song like - U2 with or without you. Quite an easily recognisable song, quite a good song (and that's coming from someone who hates bono). Now let's say U2 own all the rights and intellectual property to this song and still make plenty of loyalties from it. Now one day Justin Bieber decides he wants to use this song but U2 do not want to give him permission to do so. Justin Bieber decides he still wants to do it so he changes a few things like the name slightly, maybe a verse or 2 gets changed and the tempo is increased slightly. Now Justin Bieber is making £1 million just on release, but doesn't pay U2 a single dime. What would you think of beibers "new" song? Do you think Bieber did wrong? Like I mean the kids probably wouldn't care about whether or not beiber can play the instruments for the song or even if he wrote it. For them they liked the lyrics and melody. Is this wrong?
Well that has certainly cleared the whole topic up for me anyway. I love how you just get to the heart of the matter, particularly with reagrd to how "loyalties" work.Let's take a song like - U2 with or without you. Quite an easily recognisable song, quite a good song (and that's coming from someone who hates bono). Now let's say U2 own all the rights and intellectual property to this song and still make plenty of loyalties from it. Now one day Justin Bieber decides he wants to use this song but U2 do not want to give him permission to do so. Justin Bieber decides he still wants to do it so he changes a few things like the name slightly, maybe a verse or 2 gets changed and the tempo is increased slightly. Now Justin Bieber is making £1 million just on release, but doesn't pay U2 a single dime. What would you think of beibers "new" song? Do you think Bieber did wrong? Like I mean the kids probably wouldn't care about whether or not beiber can play the instruments for the song or even if he wrote it. For them they liked the lyrics and melody. Is this wrong?
TorqueDirty said:
Well that has certainly cleared the whole topic up for me anyway. I love how you just get to the heart of the matter, particularly with reagrd to how "loyalties" work.
Strange reply, as your has nothing to do with the thread. The subject is really about people's obsession with detail. That is to say some hi fi enthusiasts spend more time studying the sound quality rather than listening to the music. I believe your post is directed at homage watches, which has nothing to do with the thread. However, in answer to your question, I am not a fan of copyright
If people solely wanted a timepiece, then they would use their phone, or buy a cheapish quartz watch - which might more more accurate than a fairly expensive analogue mechanism. I'm sure a lot of people buy Rolex etc simply because everyone knows they cost money, and it's a basic statement of how well they are supposedly doing financially.Same with any major brand from Michael Kors right up to Louis Viiton etc. it's the public acceptable symbol of ostentatious wealth in their social circle.
Now you might get someone else who buys a tourbillon or other complication because they are works of art and have a mechanical intricacy. i can appreciate that. The average person in the street might not even know and just think its a posh watch. You could say the same about a V12 engine or highend speakers.
As for music, a lot of the differences in setups seemingly are only apparent in an acoustic room playing a specific test sample. Hardly the usual listening environment. With variations in media (dust on vinyl, sampling rates on cd) and postproduction tweaks, then it's even more personally subjective.
If you want a real argument, then just ask about valve amps vs solid state.
Now you might get someone else who buys a tourbillon or other complication because they are works of art and have a mechanical intricacy. i can appreciate that. The average person in the street might not even know and just think its a posh watch. You could say the same about a V12 engine or highend speakers.
As for music, a lot of the differences in setups seemingly are only apparent in an acoustic room playing a specific test sample. Hardly the usual listening environment. With variations in media (dust on vinyl, sampling rates on cd) and postproduction tweaks, then it's even more personally subjective.
If you want a real argument, then just ask about valve amps vs solid state.
Justayellowbadge said:
TB, you like Parnis and Invicta and the like.
Nothing wrong in that whatsoever.
Stop trying to justify it. You have no need to.
Nothing wrong in that whatsoever.
Stop trying to justify it. You have no need to.
clockworks said:
Have you ever listened to a good hi-fi system, or owned a "decent" watch? Up to you if you think buying either is a waste of money. Each to their own.
This.Personally I think Parnis & Invicta are a waste of money. No chance whatsoever of retaining more than half their RRP & certainly no chance a value gain.
Buy well & Rolex / PP and others will definitely appreciate in value.
Edited by andy tims on Saturday 7th April 11:29
It’s like wine collecting, exotic cars and so on. Trying to use a value scale is impossible.
Is a Lafite-Rothschild a thousand times better than a modest wine, or a Pagani worth a dozen Porsches? Similarly assigning a value to an expensive watch is not practical.
I am not a watch collector nor need complications, though I understand the attraction.
Is a Lafite-Rothschild a thousand times better than a modest wine, or a Pagani worth a dozen Porsches? Similarly assigning a value to an expensive watch is not practical.
I am not a watch collector nor need complications, though I understand the attraction.
Good costs money, better costs more money, best costs even more money. This will always be the way.
Whether you add a diamond bezel to a solid platinum Hublot, buy one of Paul Newman's Daytonas, or commission a bespoke Roger Smith, there's always the potential to acquire something more special for more money.
Whether you add a diamond bezel to a solid platinum Hublot, buy one of Paul Newman's Daytonas, or commission a bespoke Roger Smith, there's always the potential to acquire something more special for more money.
Jeez. This again.
Yes. Diminishing returns. Goods costing money just to cost money. Prices dictated by "what people are willing to pay" instead of "cog + normal margin".
You do keep on repeating yourself.
If you don't like the markup Rolex or PP apply, don't pay it. Plenty of good stuff available without paying thousands.
They have some brilliant marketing and it has actually benefitted owners over the years.
Yes. Diminishing returns. Goods costing money just to cost money. Prices dictated by "what people are willing to pay" instead of "cog + normal margin".
You do keep on repeating yourself.
If you don't like the markup Rolex or PP apply, don't pay it. Plenty of good stuff available without paying thousands.
They have some brilliant marketing and it has actually benefitted owners over the years.
andy tims said:
This.
Personally I think Parnis & Invicta are a waste of money. No chance whatsoever of retaining more than half their RRP & certainly no chance a value gain.
Buy well & Rolex / PP and others will definitely appreciate in value.
My criteria is to by watches I like the look of, keep reasonable time, and have a decent specification. I don't buy a watch to re-sell it, so the depreciation means nothing to me. Despite the opinion of some, nobody has to spend a fortune to achieve that, however, if they want to, that's fine by me. It would appear to me that your belief is that one has to be wealthy to be a watch enthusiast, believe me, they don't. I will have to take you to task regarding values though. Have a look on eBay at used Parnis watches, and quite often they are fetching more than new ones that have to be imported. Word has got around that they represent exceptional value for money, and their range aesthetically speaking knocks spots off of most recognised brands. Granted, Invicta depreciate quite quickly, but don't Citizen, Seiko, and Lorus etc etc? Personally I think Parnis & Invicta are a waste of money. No chance whatsoever of retaining more than half their RRP & certainly no chance a value gain.
Buy well & Rolex / PP and others will definitely appreciate in value.
Edited by andy tims on Saturday 7th April 11:29
t until they start stocking it and then it is amazing! Lol Guilty.
Hi-fi phase got a little out of control when I discovered Quad electrostatic speakers, and more out of control when a broom cupboard got iself rewired to a central area to house and feed music to from a variety of sources though an equal variety of pre-amps, power amps, wireless control, creston pads etc. It was so brilliant a set up that nobody but me could operate it! Luckily I didn't move onto having different valve amps for each channel or the other really serious options.
Music played? Generally the obligatory U2 at several thousand watts through 16 speakers, and ABBA of course. Can't beat ABBA.
Hi-fi phase got a little out of control when I discovered Quad electrostatic speakers, and more out of control when a broom cupboard got iself rewired to a central area to house and feed music to from a variety of sources though an equal variety of pre-amps, power amps, wireless control, creston pads etc. It was so brilliant a set up that nobody but me could operate it! Luckily I didn't move onto having different valve amps for each channel or the other really serious options.
Music played? Generally the obligatory U2 at several thousand watts through 16 speakers, and ABBA of course. Can't beat ABBA.
Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff