Jimmy Page's new book "Anthology"
Discussion
Just received my copy of Jimmy Page's new book "Anthology" in hardback. A magnificent body of work, goes into incredible detail of his early days as a choirboy, through The Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin, The Firm and beyond. Pictures of all his old stage costumes, old letters, never before seen photographs, highly recommended.
Anyone would think it was Page's 'first' book.
As for the nicking others works, they were a late 60s band starting up. Every group was knicking ideas back then and into the 70s.
Most let things ride.
Take the Kinks 'You Really Got Me' - 64 if I recall. A few yrs later in 68 The Doors released 'Hello I love You' with a very similar riff.
Ray Davies was on tour when he was told the Doors had used the riff for "All Day and All of the Night" for "Hello, I Love You".
Davies had said rather than sue the Doors, can we just get them to own up?
The Kinks agent said, "They have, that’s why we should sue them!"
But to Ray, the important thing was Jim Morrison had admitted it.
He said I think in Mojo mag, 'That the most important thing, actually, is to take (the idea) somewhere else.'
Later it was suggested that an out-of-court settlement had been reached with the Doors.
Nothing high profile, like Led Zep and the big controversy over 'Stairway to Heaven'.
Which, of course, LZ eventually 'won'.
I was lucky enough to first see them in 69 (much to the angst of a Led Zep nut here on PHs who only saw them in later yrs) this was in June at Bath - I didn't go to see LZ, I'd gone to see Fleetwood Mac, Chicken Shack and Savoy Brown.
Led Zep played again there the following year, same weekend in June 70.
(Didn't go to that, there was something waaaayy more important not to miss happening in August on the Isle of Wight! And no, didn't include LZ).
The bottom line again, is the majority of people wanted to see them as they did other groups.
None of us didn't give a s
te whether songs 'sounded' like something else. Proven by the sales of records and the crowd numbers who attended.
As for the nicking others works, they were a late 60s band starting up. Every group was knicking ideas back then and into the 70s.
Most let things ride.
Take the Kinks 'You Really Got Me' - 64 if I recall. A few yrs later in 68 The Doors released 'Hello I love You' with a very similar riff.
Ray Davies was on tour when he was told the Doors had used the riff for "All Day and All of the Night" for "Hello, I Love You".
Davies had said rather than sue the Doors, can we just get them to own up?
The Kinks agent said, "They have, that’s why we should sue them!"
But to Ray, the important thing was Jim Morrison had admitted it.
He said I think in Mojo mag, 'That the most important thing, actually, is to take (the idea) somewhere else.'
Later it was suggested that an out-of-court settlement had been reached with the Doors.
Nothing high profile, like Led Zep and the big controversy over 'Stairway to Heaven'.
Which, of course, LZ eventually 'won'.
I was lucky enough to first see them in 69 (much to the angst of a Led Zep nut here on PHs who only saw them in later yrs) this was in June at Bath - I didn't go to see LZ, I'd gone to see Fleetwood Mac, Chicken Shack and Savoy Brown.
Led Zep played again there the following year, same weekend in June 70.
(Didn't go to that, there was something waaaayy more important not to miss happening in August on the Isle of Wight! And no, didn't include LZ).
The bottom line again, is the majority of people wanted to see them as they did other groups.
None of us didn't give a s
te whether songs 'sounded' like something else. Proven by the sales of records and the crowd numbers who attended.Of course every musician takes influences from what he or she heard before learning to play an instrument, that is how anyone learns.
My comment was short and sweet, so maybe you didn't understand the point of it, and as such, I shall expand.
MOST people copy what they have already heard, and indeed, cover or adapt earlier music to play in their own performances.
The difference is, MOST musicians who do that, are honest enough to say where they got the idea or indeed who wrote the original, and do not have the absolute cheek of trying to lie about the music and say it is their own.
Just as one example, which Page stole from, Burt Jansch's guitar composition Black Waterside, which he wrote, to accompany a sung acapella which Anne Briggs sung to him (she learned it from old people in Irish pubs).
Page stole this, claimed it as his own, claimed he had never heard Bert Jansch play it, yet released it as 'Black Mountain Side, and anyone with ears can hear it is the same tune.
Every time Bert Jansch plays a song by somebody else, he ALWAYS tells the story of who it was by originally, every time he performed a cover, or a song he wrote which had influences from another earlier artist.
I have watched 100's of zep live perfomances and not once did any of them ever give any credit to the artists they blatantly copied & stole from.
As for zep winning lawsuits, they were millionaires, and the people they stole from were poor in comparison, and could not afford the best lawyers.
Just because YOU don't give a sh*t if poeple steal, does not make it right to do so. Page is a criminal, and always will be seen as one by real musicians.
My comment was short and sweet, so maybe you didn't understand the point of it, and as such, I shall expand.
MOST people copy what they have already heard, and indeed, cover or adapt earlier music to play in their own performances.
The difference is, MOST musicians who do that, are honest enough to say where they got the idea or indeed who wrote the original, and do not have the absolute cheek of trying to lie about the music and say it is their own.
Just as one example, which Page stole from, Burt Jansch's guitar composition Black Waterside, which he wrote, to accompany a sung acapella which Anne Briggs sung to him (she learned it from old people in Irish pubs).
Page stole this, claimed it as his own, claimed he had never heard Bert Jansch play it, yet released it as 'Black Mountain Side, and anyone with ears can hear it is the same tune.
Every time Bert Jansch plays a song by somebody else, he ALWAYS tells the story of who it was by originally, every time he performed a cover, or a song he wrote which had influences from another earlier artist.
I have watched 100's of zep live perfomances and not once did any of them ever give any credit to the artists they blatantly copied & stole from.
As for zep winning lawsuits, they were millionaires, and the people they stole from were poor in comparison, and could not afford the best lawyers.
Just because YOU don't give a sh*t if poeple steal, does not make it right to do so. Page is a criminal, and always will be seen as one by real musicians.
Edited by Nik Gnashers on Wednesday 30th December 22:09
Edited by Nik Gnashers on Wednesday 30th December 22:10
Nik Gnashers said:
Page is a criminal, and always will be seen as one by real musicians.
Don't be silly, Page is generally highly regarded by the majority of his peers, yes it is true he took influences from other musicians, not crediting them especially in the early years, (I think stole is a bit strong), but how many groups have been influenced by Zeppelin?Before Zeppelin he was one of the most highly respected session musicians in the country, he didn't need to rip off anybody.
I too saw Zeppelin at Bath in '69 and 70, Earls court in '75 and both Knebworth's in '79, but it's fair to say his work since then has been rather patchy to say the least, but he hardly needed the money.
gazza285 said:
Bert Jansch didn't write Black Waterside, it is a traditional Irish folk song.
Now Dazed And Confused, that is a different matter...
Wrong.Now Dazed And Confused, that is a different matter...
Bert DID write the guitar arrangement to Black Waterside, as I said.
Did you even read what I wrote properly ?
quote - Just as one example, which Page stole from, Burt Jansch's guitar composition Black Waterside, which he wrote, to accompany a sung acapella which Anne Briggs sung to him (she learned it from old people in Irish pubs).
Yes the sung vocal was a traditional song, passed down through the generations, but as I quite rightly stated, Anne Briggs learned it in the pubs of Ireland when she ran away there, and then upon returning to England, and staying in the same squat as Bert, she sung it to him and he wrote the music. There was no guitar arrangement until then, Bert wrote it.
Then Page stole it and claimed he wrote it.
Facts.
Wacky Racer said:
Don't be silly, Page is generally highly regarded by the majority of his peers, yes it is true he took influences from other musicians, not crediting them especially in the early years, (I think stole is a bit strong), but how many groups have been influenced by Zeppelin?
Before Zeppelin he was one of the most highly respected session musicians in the country, he didn't need to rip off anybody.
I too saw Zeppelin at Bath in '69 and 70, Earls court in '75 and both Knebworth's in '79, but it's fair to say his work since then has been rather patchy to say the least, but he hardly needed the money.
Page is a great guitar player.Before Zeppelin he was one of the most highly respected session musicians in the country, he didn't need to rip off anybody.
I too saw Zeppelin at Bath in '69 and 70, Earls court in '75 and both Knebworth's in '79, but it's fair to say his work since then has been rather patchy to say the least, but he hardly needed the money.
THAT is what he is respected for, by his peers.
Stole is not strong, it is a fact. Zep were sued dozens of times, and only won court cases because they were loaded and had the best lawyers. Bert's record company at the time, ran out of money trying to fight their case and had to give up. That was the only reason the thief Page got away with it.
You would try and defend him, because you are a massive fan of the band, of course you don't like hearing anyone criticise your beloved zep, but the truth is the truth, and Page was a thief many times over.
Davey Graham travelled to the middle east, and stayed in turkey for a while studying their completely different scales, then returned to England and invented the DADGAD tuning to try and get the Turkish sound on a European guitar.
Page later claimed he invented it from his travels around the middle east lol, and it was later proven he hadn't ever been there.
Page is a proven liar, proven thief, and you probably also think he was a great guy because he had sex with an underage girl who he gave heroin to.
That makes him a pedophile too in my book.
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