Dreaming about re-powering the car...
Discussion
So, a day off today celebrating our nations independence (sorry UK readers). I took the Ultima for a cruise today (at least the engine is from the U.S.). Totally enjoyable.
I dearly love the car, and I was lucky to find a fabulous build from a great fellow. All good. But...
The car has an LS7 in it. I should be grinning from ear to ear but I have a bias toward higher revving, horsepower-centric engines. OHC, 4V/C, flat configs. I own a Porsche 997 and am totally happy with the motor.
So I'm just dreaming about re-powering the car. Preferably with a Porsche 997-vintage turbo motor. Seems like fitting it to the transmission would be a snap (or get rid of the G50 and use the transmission that is part of the turbo motor). I recall hearing of someone using a Porsche motor but haven't seen much of it. What are the issues? Yes, not as much power or torque as the LS7 but likely a lot more to my tastes.
Just wondering...
Thx,
V
I dearly love the car, and I was lucky to find a fabulous build from a great fellow. All good. But...
The car has an LS7 in it. I should be grinning from ear to ear but I have a bias toward higher revving, horsepower-centric engines. OHC, 4V/C, flat configs. I own a Porsche 997 and am totally happy with the motor.
So I'm just dreaming about re-powering the car. Preferably with a Porsche 997-vintage turbo motor. Seems like fitting it to the transmission would be a snap (or get rid of the G50 and use the transmission that is part of the turbo motor). I recall hearing of someone using a Porsche motor but haven't seen much of it. What are the issues? Yes, not as much power or torque as the LS7 but likely a lot more to my tastes.
Just wondering...
Thx,
V
I can imagine that getting the ECU to work without the rest of the 997 electronics might be a difficult task, albeit the porsche engine is very compact
and sure a great alternative to the LS7. It will not rev higher nor have more torque, so the result once in the car could be dissappointing.
For sure it will respond better and quicker since Variocam is doing great there.
and sure a great alternative to the LS7. It will not rev higher nor have more torque, so the result once in the car could be dissappointing.
For sure it will respond better and quicker since Variocam is doing great there.
Yes, I have no idea what the full chain of sensors and electronics need to be to 'bring along' a Porsche turbo motor. But even if the output is similar, as you note, the feel of the two motors couldn't be more distinct. The low torque, slow winding nature of the LS is not to my liking though I have a lot of respect for the ease in which it makes power at almost any RPM.
Again, just dreaming.
What do folks think is the most common non-Chevy-small-block that gets inserted in to these cars? Audi V6? BMW V12? I assumed that the flat 6 would be more popular since they are likely an easy fit, mate with the trans, are widely (if not inexpensively) available. But I rarely hear of such a build.
V
Again, just dreaming.
What do folks think is the most common non-Chevy-small-block that gets inserted in to these cars? Audi V6? BMW V12? I assumed that the flat 6 would be more popular since they are likely an easy fit, mate with the trans, are widely (if not inexpensively) available. But I rarely hear of such a build.
V
The only Porsche powered Ultima I know of is the Miller Team Racing car.
Miller Team Racing
Not heard anything about it for a while though. Might be worth dropping them an email though. I appears they are using an older turbo motor.
Miller Team Racing
Not heard anything about it for a while though. Might be worth dropping them an email though. I appears they are using an older turbo motor.
ezakimak said:
custom v12 using 2 BMW K1600 barrels/heads to make a 3.2 liter
(you said dreaming)
If you are going that mental how about a 12W engine using 3 busa blocks and heads. Stap three turbos to the sides (and middle) and you should have an easy 1600bhp and about 750lbs ft of torque with a 10k+ rpm redline. (you said dreaming)
As far as bolting in a porker motor just remember the G50 stile 4 studs mountings are not equal . So you can't just turn the gearbox upside down and bolt it back on. You may need to have the diff swapped over inside the gearbox and keep the gearbox the normal way up. The later 997 transaxles I'd ask a expert if they can even be used upside down or have the duffs inverted inside the box.... Just a FYI
Interesting replies. Seems there are far fewer 'variants' than I had thought. Too bad really but it's complicated enough (for many people) to assemble such a spec'd machine that varying from the common formula is doubtlessly a huge challenge.
One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
Verde said:
Interesting replies. Seems there are far fewer 'variants' than I had thought. Too bad really but it's complicated enough (for many people) to assemble such a spec'd machine that varying from the common formula is doubtlessly a huge challenge.
One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
Same idea I was thinking of with the k1600 barrels and heads to make a v12One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
Verde said:
Interesting replies. Seems there are far fewer 'variants' than I had thought. Too bad really but it's complicated enough (for many people) to assemble such a spec'd machine that varying from the common formula is doubtlessly a huge challenge.
One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
here you go http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php/parts-a...One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
Would go for a twin turbo verion though.
Great ideas. Though I like a smooth V10/V12 in a road going sedan, they are often heavy, not particularly rev-happy and carry their weight higher than a boxer motor. Perhaps a Subaru engine well boosted, although most Sube's sound like a cross between an original Beetle and some type of farm machinery. But 400 hp out of a lightweight flat 4 is not out of the question. Not too rev-happy though.
The Nissan GTR motor is an interesting one that I've never thought of. Complicated electronics no doubt, not exactly a low CG but moderate revs. And 500+ (up to 700++) HP is pretty impressive.
I'm not sure i I could tolerate the double Hayabusa-derived V8 (with or without turbos). Great for racing no doubt but can't imagine it's tolerable on the street. But light weight, good power (or more), great gearbox available. Reading the reviews of the high-end Ariel Atom ($250K?) it sounds like a monster, though a much lighter 'car'. Hmmm...
In general, my heart and head tell me that a Porsche (if I'm just dreaming, then a motor from the forthcoming 991 GT3 or Turbo) would be outstanding. Likely around 500 hp (+/- depending on it being NA or turbo), very low CG, the NA is rev-happy, easy (though not inexpensive) to maintain and makes some good noises.
Outside of a motor from an F458 or some such, that's at the top of my list.
Others?
Rich
The Nissan GTR motor is an interesting one that I've never thought of. Complicated electronics no doubt, not exactly a low CG but moderate revs. And 500+ (up to 700++) HP is pretty impressive.
I'm not sure i I could tolerate the double Hayabusa-derived V8 (with or without turbos). Great for racing no doubt but can't imagine it's tolerable on the street. But light weight, good power (or more), great gearbox available. Reading the reviews of the high-end Ariel Atom ($250K?) it sounds like a monster, though a much lighter 'car'. Hmmm...
In general, my heart and head tell me that a Porsche (if I'm just dreaming, then a motor from the forthcoming 991 GT3 or Turbo) would be outstanding. Likely around 500 hp (+/- depending on it being NA or turbo), very low CG, the NA is rev-happy, easy (though not inexpensive) to maintain and makes some good noises.
Outside of a motor from an F458 or some such, that's at the top of my list.
Others?
Rich
chuntington101 said:
here you go http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php/parts-a...
Would go for a twin turbo verion though.
Would go for a twin turbo verion though.
chuntington101 said:
Verde said:
Interesting replies. Seems there are far fewer 'variants' than I had thought. Too bad really but it's complicated enough (for many people) to assemble such a spec'd machine that varying from the common formula is doubtlessly a huge challenge.
One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
here you go http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php/parts-a...One more variant (beside Porsche turbo or GT3 power which are still my preferences) would be the mini V8 (?) motor in that high-end Ariel Atom. Pneumatic shifter if I recall properly and a wildly high power engine for it's weight. I think it is based on a pair of Hayabusa motors but has drifted quite far afield from that original design. The power to weight ratio is amazing.
V
Would go for a twin turbo verion though.
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