Yeah but it's a Kit Car.......
Discussion
How many of you struggle with the above thought when it comes to going ahead with the purchase of an Ultima?
Later this year I anticipate getting into some sort of performance car in the range of £50 - 65k. I have always loved the relative performance of something like an Ultima/GD70/GT40 and whilst fully aware that they have to be built by the owner, am struggling a little with my thoughts on it still being a kit car, even if a very competant one. For the same money you could get a range of semi-exotica which may be easier to live with and offer more luggage space for a weekend away.
Feel free to discuss
Later this year I anticipate getting into some sort of performance car in the range of £50 - 65k. I have always loved the relative performance of something like an Ultima/GD70/GT40 and whilst fully aware that they have to be built by the owner, am struggling a little with my thoughts on it still being a kit car, even if a very competant one. For the same money you could get a range of semi-exotica which may be easier to live with and offer more luggage space for a weekend away.
Feel free to discuss
You certainly could. I looked at GT3's, 355s and a host of other cars. For me it came down to one thing though. As good as some of them are (and they are indeed very good everyday and beyond cars) they are all still 'everyone else' cars.
I wanted something that was mine, built with my thoughts (but built by someone far more capable than me) and built to satisfy a singular purpose. I didn't want an 'everyday' car, or a 'special' car, or a 'supercar', or a 'sportscar', I wanted something built with the singular intention of being nothing other than what it is.
I don't want a compromise car, or a 'mid range' Aston, or a 'baby Ferrari'. No I WANT an Ultima and nothing else would do. It was as simple a statement as that.
I wanted something that was mine, built with my thoughts (but built by someone far more capable than me) and built to satisfy a singular purpose. I didn't want an 'everyday' car, or a 'special' car, or a 'supercar', or a 'sportscar', I wanted something built with the singular intention of being nothing other than what it is.
I don't want a compromise car, or a 'mid range' Aston, or a 'baby Ferrari'. No I WANT an Ultima and nothing else would do. It was as simple a statement as that.
It's a tough one.
From an ego perspective, it's always a bit tough to tell a group of admirers that 'it's a kit car'. People tend to drop their perspective of the car a few notches when they hear that. I don't particularly give a hoot, but it's interesting to observe.
From a financial perspective, the 'kit' aspect, and off-brand (at least here in the U.S./California) makes any notion of appreciation a non-starter. Here, you have to assume that if you are going to build the car, you will lose money when/if you sell. And that doesn't include the price of your time. If you purchase a used/built car, you are in the best financial position. Even then, the buyers of the car are few and far between and so getting ones money out of it is suspect. I entered in to my purchase of a used/built car and if I choose to sell some day, I hope to get a reasonable percentage of my money out of the transaction. Here in U.S./California, because it is a car-loving area where the SES is high in spots and the challenge of registering a car like the Ultima is rather difficult, I suspect I'll do fine.
From a practical perspective, well there just isn't one. It's either a one-person car that can carry a few days worth of gear, or a two person car where sandwiches are optional. Since I own a Ford GT which has similar (actually less) carrying capacity I already have proven that I don't care.
Finally, none of this matters. You either love an Ultima or you don't. It's not really a car from the standard metrics against which Cars (tm) are measured. It's a joy, a beautiful machine, a race car that you happen to be able to drive on the road. Not many people can or will set aside a chunk of disposable income for such frivolities. But if you care and if you can, there are few other things one can own that measure up. Some of the latest street-legal open-seat single or dual seaters perhaps. They are generally unattractive but in a compelling way. No PorscheLotusFerrari can match it. Generally in performance and never in the lust department.
That's my (lengthy) take.
B
From an ego perspective, it's always a bit tough to tell a group of admirers that 'it's a kit car'. People tend to drop their perspective of the car a few notches when they hear that. I don't particularly give a hoot, but it's interesting to observe.
From a financial perspective, the 'kit' aspect, and off-brand (at least here in the U.S./California) makes any notion of appreciation a non-starter. Here, you have to assume that if you are going to build the car, you will lose money when/if you sell. And that doesn't include the price of your time. If you purchase a used/built car, you are in the best financial position. Even then, the buyers of the car are few and far between and so getting ones money out of it is suspect. I entered in to my purchase of a used/built car and if I choose to sell some day, I hope to get a reasonable percentage of my money out of the transaction. Here in U.S./California, because it is a car-loving area where the SES is high in spots and the challenge of registering a car like the Ultima is rather difficult, I suspect I'll do fine.
From a practical perspective, well there just isn't one. It's either a one-person car that can carry a few days worth of gear, or a two person car where sandwiches are optional. Since I own a Ford GT which has similar (actually less) carrying capacity I already have proven that I don't care.
Finally, none of this matters. You either love an Ultima or you don't. It's not really a car from the standard metrics against which Cars (tm) are measured. It's a joy, a beautiful machine, a race car that you happen to be able to drive on the road. Not many people can or will set aside a chunk of disposable income for such frivolities. But if you care and if you can, there are few other things one can own that measure up. Some of the latest street-legal open-seat single or dual seaters perhaps. They are generally unattractive but in a compelling way. No PorscheLotusFerrari can match it. Generally in performance and never in the lust department.
That's my (lengthy) take.
B
If you can only stretch to/want one car then the Ultima is probably not for you if you want to take your wife/partner on a driving holiday.
However, the Ultima is a bit of "theatre" on the road and gets a lot of attention and camera phone action. It is unusual not to get questions about the car when you fill up with fuel.
If you make a good job of the build then most people are very impressed that you built the car yourself. There will be those that mock it for being a kit but you will be able to blow the doors off what ever they are driving.
It is a hobby as well as a car and most people fail to make money out of either.
What price fun? You only live once.
Paul
However, the Ultima is a bit of "theatre" on the road and gets a lot of attention and camera phone action. It is unusual not to get questions about the car when you fill up with fuel.
If you make a good job of the build then most people are very impressed that you built the car yourself. There will be those that mock it for being a kit but you will be able to blow the doors off what ever they are driving.
It is a hobby as well as a car and most people fail to make money out of either.
What price fun? You only live once.
Paul
All comments spot-on!
I had never anticipated such attention (if you like that sort of thing!) as I have had since mine went on the road. I thought comments on this thread hugely inflated, but no!
Without exception, every time you pull into a filling station you either get lots of photos taken, or/and someone will come up and ask what it is - then compliment you on it being 'beautiful'!
In the short time I have been out on the road, I have been amazed... even got stopped by Mr Plod, just so he could look it over. He said he had heard it several times, but could not find me... Anyways, discuss the finer details, and half an hr later, escort me 'cos he wanted to hear the sound'.... a true petrol-head!
I was suspicious.. but he never even asked my name!
..and the reaction of teenagers, runners, surprising number of middle-aged totty watching you go by, wide mouthed in disbelief...
I'm not egging it, as most Ult owners will know... TBH it got very tired of it, and a little bit embarrassed to start with, but now - its a hoot!
Has it brought the worst out of me?
You betcha!
60+ GOING ON 23!
I had never anticipated such attention (if you like that sort of thing!) as I have had since mine went on the road. I thought comments on this thread hugely inflated, but no!
Without exception, every time you pull into a filling station you either get lots of photos taken, or/and someone will come up and ask what it is - then compliment you on it being 'beautiful'!
In the short time I have been out on the road, I have been amazed... even got stopped by Mr Plod, just so he could look it over. He said he had heard it several times, but could not find me... Anyways, discuss the finer details, and half an hr later, escort me 'cos he wanted to hear the sound'.... a true petrol-head!
I was suspicious.. but he never even asked my name!
..and the reaction of teenagers, runners, surprising number of middle-aged totty watching you go by, wide mouthed in disbelief...
I'm not egging it, as most Ult owners will know... TBH it got very tired of it, and a little bit embarrassed to start with, but now - its a hoot!
Has it brought the worst out of me?
You betcha!
60+ GOING ON 23!
Edited by 3Dee on Monday 23 September 08:46
I never struggled with those thoughts. When I bought the Ultima (which isn't finished yet), I could have bought a cheap Ferrari, but wanted something better (and cheaper). I am not a badge snob, avoid wearing labels, couldn't give a flying f about what others think, and I also support the underdogs.
If you're worried about other peoples' views, or luggage carrying capacity, I wouldn't bother with an Ultima. Ferrari owners, etc will probably sneer at you, and you won't be invited to black tie parties, so if you're sensitive, buy a production car.
On the other hand, if you can drive well, and if that's what you're into, I'm sure it would be at least as rewarding as any prod car. It's a different kind of cool, climbing out of a sportscar, looking like you forgot to take off your clothes at the sauna. Not everyone gets it.
If you're worried about other peoples' views, or luggage carrying capacity, I wouldn't bother with an Ultima. Ferrari owners, etc will probably sneer at you, and you won't be invited to black tie parties, so if you're sensitive, buy a production car.
On the other hand, if you can drive well, and if that's what you're into, I'm sure it would be at least as rewarding as any prod car. It's a different kind of cool, climbing out of a sportscar, looking like you forgot to take off your clothes at the sauna. Not everyone gets it.
BogBeast said:
its a "component car..." 
Agreed. Building proper kit cars can be far more complex. The Caterham and the Ultima are the ideal candidate if you have not done a kit car before as everything fits and you don't have to re-engineer or fabricate anything. Many of the replicas of the gorgeous race cars of the '60's (GT40/P4/T70) require a level of engineering skill above the ability of most, and if you build in your free time around work and family years and years to build. There is a bloke near me who has been 18 years building a GT40 replica. That said, it is very very well executed.
dandare said:
I never struggled with those thoughts. When I bought the Ultima (which isn't finished yet), I could have bought a cheap Ferrari, but wanted something better (and cheaper). I am not a badge snob, avoid wearing labels, couldn't give a flying f about what others think, and I also support the underdogs.
If you're worried about other peoples' views, or luggage carrying capacity, I wouldn't bother with an Ultima. Ferrari owners, etc will probably sneer at you, and you won't be invited to black tie parties, so if you're sensitive, buy a production car.
On the other hand, if you can drive well, and if that's what you're into, I'm sure it would be at least as rewarding as any prod car. It's a different kind of cool, climbing out of a sportscar, looking like you forgot to take off your clothes at the sauna. Not everyone gets it.
No aircon then?If you're worried about other peoples' views, or luggage carrying capacity, I wouldn't bother with an Ultima. Ferrari owners, etc will probably sneer at you, and you won't be invited to black tie parties, so if you're sensitive, buy a production car.
On the other hand, if you can drive well, and if that's what you're into, I'm sure it would be at least as rewarding as any prod car. It's a different kind of cool, climbing out of a sportscar, looking like you forgot to take off your clothes at the sauna. Not everyone gets it.
Funny thing about the "kit car" name, but with an Ultima as a kit car, its a bit like calling the QE2 a ferry boat. I have always thought that Ultima is missing a trick. There seems to be a few "hand built cars" around which cost £200k-£300k with less performance,
Ultima should do a "special" gtr, with £20k's worth of sexy leather, stereo, badges etc and charge £300k each - then it wouldn't be a kit car!
I think my wife summed up the ultima and why I have one: Why do you drive that thing? Its noisy, way too fast, and everyone always looks at you! - exactly!
With an ultima You either get "it" or you don't.........
Ultima should do a "special" gtr, with £20k's worth of sexy leather, stereo, badges etc and charge £300k each - then it wouldn't be a kit car!
I think my wife summed up the ultima and why I have one: Why do you drive that thing? Its noisy, way too fast, and everyone always looks at you! - exactly!
With an ultima You either get "it" or you don't.........
I never normally refer to it as a kit car, I just refer to it as an ultima GTR.
For me, it's the fact that at 975kg curb weight, huge horses in back and some downforce means its moved on the fun and excitement at trackdays to different level. The looks are still virtually bang upto date, the sound still causes a massive grin factor and the raw handling/feel/feedback puts modern supercars firmly in their place.
This car is a hidden gem - only people who have owned one understand what a ultima really means and that it's a blindingly quick, supreme, characterful but very functional HyperCar.
The other great thing about the ultima is it parts are relatively cheap - I'm never scared to take it close to its limit - mainly due to how progressive it is when it finally gives up on the kumhos
. If I was taking round a 991 gt3, lambo, Mecca or Ferrari , I would have in the back of my mine the cost of breaking/ wearing out parts and slamming the expensive aluminium, carbon and paint into the scenery.
When I look at hyper cars these days, they seem like beautiful works of art and technology laden cars chasing ring times. Maybe If I sold the house, put the wife on the street corner and put the children into slavery I could just about afford one
, meanwhile I'll cane the ultima to within an inch of its life, replace the parts that break and have time of my life 
For me, it's the fact that at 975kg curb weight, huge horses in back and some downforce means its moved on the fun and excitement at trackdays to different level. The looks are still virtually bang upto date, the sound still causes a massive grin factor and the raw handling/feel/feedback puts modern supercars firmly in their place.
This car is a hidden gem - only people who have owned one understand what a ultima really means and that it's a blindingly quick, supreme, characterful but very functional HyperCar.
The other great thing about the ultima is it parts are relatively cheap - I'm never scared to take it close to its limit - mainly due to how progressive it is when it finally gives up on the kumhos
. If I was taking round a 991 gt3, lambo, Mecca or Ferrari , I would have in the back of my mine the cost of breaking/ wearing out parts and slamming the expensive aluminium, carbon and paint into the scenery. When I look at hyper cars these days, they seem like beautiful works of art and technology laden cars chasing ring times. Maybe If I sold the house, put the wife on the street corner and put the children into slavery I could just about afford one
, meanwhile I'll cane the ultima to within an inch of its life, replace the parts that break and have time of my life I have yet to have another high performance car try to get the better of me on the road. If I come up behind something with a bit of go I just sit behind them matching their speed.
Chap on a superbike couldn't get past until I decided it was getting silly. He looked impressed when he pull along side.
I still have bump-steer issues on poorly surfaced roads and a well driven hot hatch could probably keep up - until the surface improves...............
Something to address over the coming winter hopefully.
Paul
Chap on a superbike couldn't get past until I decided it was getting silly. He looked impressed when he pull along side.
I still have bump-steer issues on poorly surfaced roads and a well driven hot hatch could probably keep up - until the surface improves...............
Something to address over the coming winter hopefully.
Paul
TeflonT said:
Agreed. Building proper kit cars can be far more complex. The Caterham and the Ultima are the ideal candidate if you have not done a kit car before as everything fits and you don't have to re-engineer or fabricate anything.
Many of the replicas of the gorgeous race cars of the '60's (GT40/P4/T70) require a level of engineering skill above the ability of most, and if you build in your free time around work and family years and years to build. There is a bloke near me who has been 18 years building a GT40 replica. That said, it is very very well executed.
18 years Many of the replicas of the gorgeous race cars of the '60's (GT40/P4/T70) require a level of engineering skill above the ability of most, and if you build in your free time around work and family years and years to build. There is a bloke near me who has been 18 years building a GT40 replica. That said, it is very very well executed.
I have a horrible feeling that may well be me 17 years from now 
I have gone in head first with the ignorance is bliss and how hard can it be approach....Must be said though I do tend not to use the term "kit car" and call it a replica
tjlees said:
I never normally refer to it as a kit car, I just refer to it as an ultima GTR.
For me, it's the fact that at 975kg curb weight, huge horses in back and some downforce means its moved on the fun and excitement at trackdays to different level. The looks are still virtually bang upto date, the sound still causes a massive grin factor and the raw handling/feel/feedback puts modern supercars firmly in their place.
This car is a hidden gem - only people who have owned one understand what a ultima really means and that it's a blindingly quick, supreme, characterful but very functional HyperCar.
The other great thing about the ultima is it parts are relatively cheap - I'm never scared to take it close to its limit - mainly due to how progressive it is when it finally gives up on the kumhos. If I was taking round a 991 gt3, lambo, Mecca or Ferrari , I would have in the back of my mine the cost of breaking/ wearing out parts and slamming the expensive aluminium, carbon and paint into the scenery.
When I look at hyper cars these days, they seem like beautiful works of art and technology laden cars chasing ring times. Maybe If I sold the house, put the wife on the street corner and put the children into slavery I could just about afford one, meanwhile I'll cane the ultima to within an inch of its life, replace the parts that break and have time of my life
Curious, have you weighed yours?For me, it's the fact that at 975kg curb weight, huge horses in back and some downforce means its moved on the fun and excitement at trackdays to different level. The looks are still virtually bang upto date, the sound still causes a massive grin factor and the raw handling/feel/feedback puts modern supercars firmly in their place.
This car is a hidden gem - only people who have owned one understand what a ultima really means and that it's a blindingly quick, supreme, characterful but very functional HyperCar.
The other great thing about the ultima is it parts are relatively cheap - I'm never scared to take it close to its limit - mainly due to how progressive it is when it finally gives up on the kumhos
. If I was taking round a 991 gt3, lambo, Mecca or Ferrari , I would have in the back of my mine the cost of breaking/ wearing out parts and slamming the expensive aluminium, carbon and paint into the scenery. When I look at hyper cars these days, they seem like beautiful works of art and technology laden cars chasing ring times. Maybe If I sold the house, put the wife on the street corner and put the children into slavery I could just about afford one
, meanwhile I'll cane the ultima to within an inch of its life, replace the parts that break and have time of my life Ultima Chat | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff