Plasma vs. modern LCDs with Sky HD?

[bitchstewie]

I have a 37" Panasonic plasma which must be 3-4 years old now and was EOL when I had it new. TX 37-10 without checking.

I'm tempted to have a look for a replacement as there are some good offers around, but whenever I've been in John Lewis and Currys they always seem to have things fed off either the sttest shared aerial known to mankind, or they're showing a HD demo source which is superb quality.

What I want to know is what is a good screen to use with Sky HD?

I always found football a bit "blocky" when watching on LCDs in the past but I'm assuming things are now better?

The thing I do like about the plasma is that everything looks very natural, almost seems CRT like.

EDIT: And of course I'm using the term LCD when I suspect these days I really mean LED

Edited by bhstewie on Tuesday 29th December 10:09

[mackie1]

I have a recent Sony 8 series and it has a very natural picture in Cinema mode. I replaced a 7 year old Panasonic plasma and I'm not disappointed.
I'm watching Big Hero 6 right now on Sky HD and it looks great.

[varsas]

For sports especially, a plasma has some advantages over LCD. Look up 'impulse vs sample-and-hold'. Plasma and CRT are 'impulse' devices, LCD and OLED and 'sample-and-hold'. It sounds to me like you prefer impulse driven sets. This might mean you want to seek out an LED with 'BFI' (Black Frame Insertion) to emulate an impulse driven display.

[craig1912]

Changed a Panasonic plasma to a Sony 8 series and happy with the result. Still have the Panasonic in the kitchen and when both running Sky HD I can't see much difference. The Sonys non reflective screen also helps.

[Cheib]

varsas said:

For sports especially, a plasma has some advantages over LCD. Look up 'impulse vs sample-and-hold'. Plasma and CRT are 'impulse' devices, LCD and OLED and 'sample-and-hold'. It sounds to me like you prefer impulse driven sets. This might mean you want to seek out an LED with 'BFI' (Black Frame Insertion) to emulate an impulse driven display.

Blimey that sounds complicated! Who do the BFI LED's ?

[belleair302]

If you use a decent setup disc the image on a decent plasma still beats a well set up LCD. OLED is the best available with regard to image and for sports is simply stunning. Calibrate your set properly and the differences are noticeable.

[Evolved]

LCD just can't generate the contrast a plasma can and as such blacks end up grey, we have the VT65 end of line plasma and the only thing I'd replace it with is an OLED but they're currently still in their infancy and with the advent of 4K sets seem to have taken a back seat development wise.

I'd suggest you research long and hard before laying out any money, head over to AVForums to get some advice as some guys on there live and breath this stuff.

[varsas]

Evolved said:

LCD just can't generate the contrast a plasma can and as such blacks end up grey, we have the VT65 end of line plasma and the only thing I'd replace it with is an OLED but they're currently still in their infancy and with the advent of 4K sets seem to have taken a back seat development wise.

I'd suggest you research long and hard before laying out any money, head over to AVForums to get some advice as some guys on there live and breath this stuff.

You can get 4k, HDR OLED TV's. The LG(55 or 65)EF950V has HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0a, and is as futureproof as any current TV. LG are set to announce new models next week, so hopefully development is continuing.

As for LCD's with BFI sorry, I'm not sure. You'd have to check the reviews at a good site; hdtvtest.co.uk, avsforums etc and, I'd suggest, see it in action for yourself. Most sets nowerdays will have frame interpolation to also try and help with on-screen motion. It does give an odd 'hyper real' effect (also knows as the 'soap opera effect') and can throw up some odd artifacts (a blurry halo around fast moving objects, for example). Again, best to see for yourself, with the material you are going to be watching.

Oh also, just to be clear, an LED TV is still an LCD TV!

Edited by varsas on Thursday 31st December 08:34

[Kermit power]

belleair302 said:

If you use a decent setup disc the image on a decent plasma still beats a well set up LCD. OLED is the best available with regard to image and for sports is simply stunning. Calibrate your set properly and the differences are noticeable.

Where would one find one of these setup discs?

I get a very decent picture on my Panasonic plasma, but I don't suppose it would hurt to optimise it...

[varsas]

Kermit power said:

belleair302 said:

If you use a decent setup disc the image on a decent plasma still beats a well set up LCD. OLED is the best available with regard to image and for sports is simply stunning. Calibrate your set properly and the differences are noticeable.

Where would one find one of these setup discs?

I get a very decent picture on my Panasonic plasma, but I don't suppose it would hurt to optimise it...

I found this helpful:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibrat...

particularly the APL slide. Setting up colour without a special tool is difficult, but you should be able to set the brightness/contrast and overall tint (greyscale) pretty good, and they are the most important aspects of calibration.

Or try this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spears-Munsil-Benchmark-Ca...

I also hear the Disney WOW disc is good.

Edited by varsas on Thursday 31st December 08:35

[Evolved]

varsas said:

You can get 4k, HDR OLED TV's. The LG(55 or 65)EF950V has HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0a, and is as futureproof as any current TV. LG are set to announce new models next week, so hopefully development is continuing.

Edited by varsas on Thursday 31st December 08:34

Yep sorry didn't mean it wasn't being developed but it seems it's just LG pushing it at the min which means the tech cost is still stupidly expensive, until more manufacturers start pushing the development the costs will remain high, similar to LCD when it first launched. Plasma, well it always remained expensive for the same reason but even now the 2 year old VT runs rings around sets currently on sale for picture quality bar the OLED sets.

[Chris Stott]

Evolved said:

LCD just can't generate the contrast a plasma can and as such blacks end up grey, we have the VT65 end of line plasma and the only thing I'd replace it with is an OLED but they're currently still in their infancy and with the advent of 4K sets seem to have taken a back seat development wise.

I'd suggest you research long and hard before laying out any money, head over to AVForums to get some advice as some guys on there live and breath this stuff.

I can't speak for the £400/500 stuff, but I've just replaced a Panny Plasma with a 9000 series Samsung, and the blacks are just as good, but brightness, colour and perceived depth of field are much, much better. And that's with 1080i (Sky) and 1080p (Blueray/Netflix) content. Give it a 4k UHD source and it's on another level all together.

The problem is when you wonder in to somewhere like RS, JL or Currys, the picture on the sets is garbage - 'dynamic' picture pre-sets, with maxed back lights, maxed contrast, and all the processing tech turned on. But set up correctly, the picture is stunning.

[bitchstewie]

belleair302 said:

If you use a decent setup disc the image on a decent plasma still beats a well set up LCD. OLED is the best available with regard to image and for sports is simply stunning. Calibrate your set properly and the differences are noticeable.

Interesting thank you I'm off into town in a bit so will have a look at what's in John Lewis but from a quick look online OLED is still stupidly expensive whilst I think my Panasonic was £299 EOL from Richer Sounds and does nothing "wrong", just every now and then you contemplate a new shiny toy etc.

Might have a look at the Muso whilst I'm in JL

[varsas]

Evolved said:

varsas said:

You can get 4k, HDR OLED TV's. The LG(55 or 65)EF950V has HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0a, and is as futureproof as any current TV. LG are set to announce new models next week, so hopefully development is continuing.

Edited by varsas on Thursday 31st December 08:34

Yep sorry didn't mean it wasn't being developed but it seems it's just LG pushing it at the min which means the tech cost is still stupidly expensive, until more manufacturers start pushing the development the costs will remain high, similar to LCD when it first launched. Plasma, well it always remained expensive for the same reason but even now the 2 year old VT runs rings around sets currently on sale for picture quality bar the OLED sets.

Ah, I see. Yes. The price is coming down but it's the same issue Plasma had, when you can get an LCD with the same features for half the price you can understand why people go for that. You can't really get a proper sense of the picture quality difference in store so sadly the benefits aren't seen.

[Cheib]

I was in the market for a 55" screen...having looked at the flat (not curved) top end Panny and Smasung neither get outstanding reviews and both seems to have issues. I am going to wait to see what is being launched. Have one of the last gen 50" Panny Plasma's which is being retained so would like something of similar quality!

[Evolved]

Chris Stott said:

I can't speak for the £400/500 stuff, but I've just replaced a Panny Plasma with a 9000 series Samsung, and the blacks are just as good, but brightness, colour and perceived depth of field are much, much better. And that's with 1080i (Sky) and 1080p (Blueray/Netflix) content. Give it a 4k UHD source and it's on another level all together.

The problem is when you wonder in to somewhere like RS, JL or Currys, the picture on the sets is garbage - 'dynamic' picture pre-sets, with maxed back lights, maxed contrast, and all the processing tech turned on. But set up correctly, the picture is stunning.

sounds like you bought well, seems to one of the best LCDs on the market and does review well.

[Evolved]

Cheib said:

I was in the market for a 55" screen...having looked at the flat (not curved) top end Panny and Smasung neither get outstanding reviews and both seems to have issues. I am going to wait to see what is being launched. Have one of the last gen 50" Panny Plasma's which is being retained so would like something of similar quality!

If it was the ZT or VT you simply won't match the picture quality or black level/contrast with current LCDs. Both of those sets were on par/bettered the Kuros and those are still used as reference sets in TV shoot outs. The only way you'll better it is with OLED but as I've said it's still in it's infancy and as such is too expensive.

Sorry OP this probably isn't helping your original question.

[w00tman]

Evolved said:

Cheib said:

I was in the market for a 55" screen...having looked at the flat (not curved) top end Panny and Smasung neither get outstanding reviews and both seems to have issues. I am going to wait to see what is being launched. Have one of the last gen 50" Panny Plasma's which is being retained so would like something of similar quality!

If it was the ZT or VT you simply won't match the picture quality or black level/contrast with current LCDs. Both of those sets were on par/bettered the Kuros and those are still used as reference sets in TV shoot outs. The only way you'll better it is with OLED but as I've said it's still in it's infancy and as such is too expensive.

Sorry OP this probably isn't helping your original question.

I have an OLED and it's phenomenal. But - every TV will have issues of some description, LCD, Plasma and every individual models all have +/-'s.

My OLED, for instance, has discolouration in bright white screens from the filter used on the front. The 4K OLEDs have black dithering at the side of the panels. The plasma Panasonic VT/ZT have gradation and floating black issues. The Kuros had red-tint, etc etc. Don't get hung up on perceived issues - there isn't a set that's ever been made that across the board has no issues - including the best panels ever made (OLED, Kuro, VT/ZT, Sharp).

The only panel which seems to have been as near as damn it perfected is the new Panasonic OLED - but it costs £9K!

[Cheib]

We have a VT.

I agree people go overboard on the technical faults of modern TV's though. I can tell what I like but have no friggin clue about all the faults that AV Forums threads can run to hundreds of pages on! I find it a bit odd that you see pictures of someone's set up with the latest greatest 60" screen and a pretty basic surround sound/audio system. If you're that obsessed with things why not try and improve the other half of your system a bit more!?!?!?

I am not sure if you actually sat half these people in front of a TV and "did the Pepsi challenge" with sets adjusted enough to notice but not too much most of them could tell you whether one TV's greyscale, gammut or whatever else is that different!

[Buzzlt]

Going back to the original post - may I suggest you do what I did and upload some video onto a usb stick and then (maybe ask permission first) but plug it in any of the TV's you like the look of and play it.

That's how I bought my last TV I can't remember what I used but the difference on the sets in store was amazing - settled on a Samsung but that was a couple of years ago and found out afterwards LG made the screen for it.

Also don't get caught up too much with the refresh rates, I might be wrong but I don't think the human eye can diffrentiate much over 100hz anyway!

Happy hunting