ceiling speakers / amplifier
Discussion
Hi,
I'm planning on building a single story extension this year, essentially a big conservatory (4.5 x 7m)
The plan is to keep the furniture fairly minimal so beyond somewhere to sit, somewhere to sit at and a few rugs the room will be empty, no TV or anything like that.
It will need sound though, but I'm under orders not to have anything on show, ideally just something that supports Airplay / DNLA so music can be streamed from the computer to them controlled via an iDevice.
I was thinking therefore of putting some speakers into the ceiling which opens up surprisingly few options. A lot of solutions have wall panels with lights and displays on, the wife would want to set fire to anything like those.
Ideally I want 4 reasonable sized speakers (was thinking B&W CCM682's or similar) mounted flush with the ceiling, but I'll need something to power them so would need to hide the amp and network interface also. If they're a bit too light I might be able to smuggle in a floor mounted sub. I thought initially about using a kit amp with an Apple Airport box and hiding them in the roof, a bit crude but would work and sound half decent whilst being totally hidden from view.
However this, in principle looks almost ideal: http://www.vastint.com/product/Multi-room_Audio_Sy... as I could hide it in the roof but given that it would be essentially a permanent installation I'd rather plumb it in via ethernet. Not found anything similar
Anyone used one of these amps, are they any good? Seem quite cheap, I appreciate this isn't going to be exactly hi-fi but want an enjoyable sound, don't want it to sound like I'm in a department store, it'll only operate in this room so no need for a multi-room system.
views would be appreciated.
I'm planning on building a single story extension this year, essentially a big conservatory (4.5 x 7m)
The plan is to keep the furniture fairly minimal so beyond somewhere to sit, somewhere to sit at and a few rugs the room will be empty, no TV or anything like that.
It will need sound though, but I'm under orders not to have anything on show, ideally just something that supports Airplay / DNLA so music can be streamed from the computer to them controlled via an iDevice.
I was thinking therefore of putting some speakers into the ceiling which opens up surprisingly few options. A lot of solutions have wall panels with lights and displays on, the wife would want to set fire to anything like those.
Ideally I want 4 reasonable sized speakers (was thinking B&W CCM682's or similar) mounted flush with the ceiling, but I'll need something to power them so would need to hide the amp and network interface also. If they're a bit too light I might be able to smuggle in a floor mounted sub. I thought initially about using a kit amp with an Apple Airport box and hiding them in the roof, a bit crude but would work and sound half decent whilst being totally hidden from view.
However this, in principle looks almost ideal: http://www.vastint.com/product/Multi-room_Audio_Sy... as I could hide it in the roof but given that it would be essentially a permanent installation I'd rather plumb it in via ethernet. Not found anything similar
Anyone used one of these amps, are they any good? Seem quite cheap, I appreciate this isn't going to be exactly hi-fi but want an enjoyable sound, don't want it to sound like I'm in a department store, it'll only operate in this room so no need for a multi-room system.
views would be appreciated.
The problem with the Sonos stuff I've seen is that it's an ugly box that looks like a PC that sits on the side. Makes it unsuitable as I'd have to have it plugged in and on a table, mount it on the wall. The desire is to have something invisible in a room with essentially no furniture. I have a proper hi-fi in another room, want to have a space that's free from any clutter.
megaphone said:
Put the sonos amp with the other HiFi stuff and just run speaker cables from there, all control is via WiFi so it can go anywhere it can get a signal.
That would mean digging up the floor or chasing walls in 3 rooms to get to this one, but if I was doing that I'd not need the Sonos amp at all.Thanks for the suggestions but why do people on forums do that when you ask for advice on something and state the parameters:
I would like a 2 seater convertible car for me and the wife, thinking of an MX-5 =
helpful_forum_Person said:
Those 5 series BMW's are nice, I'd get one of those if it was me
I'll sort something out.Thanks
qube_TA said:
Thanks for the suggestions but why do people on forums do that when you ask for advice on something and state the parameters:
Because it is a neater solution than what you have suggested. An airport express is pretty limiting for playback, it will still need power and then you have that amp.
The Sonos connect amp will do the same thing, will hide in the ceiling cavity and give better results.
It has a sub output, which you will need with ceiling speakers as most will only go down to around 120hz, even the 8" ones that say 80hz struggle unless you built sealed enclosures for them.
What you were really asking is "I am going to do this, can every one tell me it is a great choice?".
qube_TA said:
megaphone said:
Put the sonos amp with the other HiFi stuff and just run speaker cables from there, all control is via WiFi so it can go anywhere it can get a signal.
That would mean digging up the floor or chasing walls in 3 rooms to get to this one, but if I was doing that I'd not need the Sonos amp at all.Thanks for the suggestions but why do people on forums do that when you ask for advice on something and state the parameters:
I would like a 2 seater convertible car for me and the wife, thinking of an MX-5 =
helpful_forum_Person said:
Those 5 series BMW's are nice, I'd get one of those if it was me
I'll sort something out.Thanks
End of thread, no need to suggest anything else.
How much is that amp OP, I can't see a price?
Russound do some very good signal sensing stereo (and multi-channel) amps of 50w and 90w per channel. They come on automatically when they detect a signal (e.g. from a Gramofon) and turn off again when the music is stopped. That way you can keep the amp out of the way with not need to touch it.
Russound do some very good signal sensing stereo (and multi-channel) amps of 50w and 90w per channel. They come on automatically when they detect a signal (e.g. from a Gramofon) and turn off again when the music is stopped. That way you can keep the amp out of the way with not need to touch it.
Sounds like you have highlighted a number of options:
Install an Apple Airport Express and an amplifier in a hidden location. You'll need to supply power to 2 devices and make sure the amp is auto sensing so that it automatically switches on when it detects a signal. You can stream directly from mobile devices or initiate an audio stream from iTunes using the remote app on an iOS device.
Cost for this is the Apple AE plus the Amp.
Install the VAST amp you linked to which reduces the installation to a single device (although it has an external Power supply, so 2 things to mount) that can do AirPlay and stream from a shared folder on a PC or NAS box. Not sure how it's controlled though - can't see any apps on the App Store for it. Assuming you haven't got a NAS you'll need to set up a shared folder on your PC, so to stream from that it needs to be on (same as above if streaming from iTunes to airport express)
Cost for this is the amp, about £280 according to google.
Install a Sonos Amp in the same hidden space. This might be more difficult as the amp looks bigger than the VAST one, but it does have a built in power supply. How it compares to the first option depends on the amp you choose I guess. Sonos has an excellent set of apps (iOS, android, PC & Mac) and the ability to stream from devices, NAS, shared folders and a pretty extensive list of online music services (Spotify, Deezer, Apple Music, Google Music) and Internet radio. The external streams only have to be initiated by the controlling device, which is a nice touch as it doesn't drain your smartphone battery.
Cost is about £400 for the amp, unless there's discounts to be had these days.
Fourth option is probably some kind of other integrated amp that does what the Sonos one does. I've tried a Denon Ceol in the past and both the app to control it and the reliability were poor, requiring frequent resets. IMHO that would also be my concern around the VAST stuff as there don't seem to be any easily found glowing reviews of their products and without mass market adoption software/firmware updates are likely to be few and far between. In my experience the most likely common reason give up on using technology is if it doesn't work consistently each time, so if you're constantly needing to reset or re-configure something for other users it'll soon be ignored.
To put this in context I'm not a huge Sonos fanboy, although I use the amp and the connect I recently bought a Ruark R1 and R2 for the home be issue both my wife and I considered the Play 1 both poor sounding and reasonably ugly.
Install an Apple Airport Express and an amplifier in a hidden location. You'll need to supply power to 2 devices and make sure the amp is auto sensing so that it automatically switches on when it detects a signal. You can stream directly from mobile devices or initiate an audio stream from iTunes using the remote app on an iOS device.
Cost for this is the Apple AE plus the Amp.
Install the VAST amp you linked to which reduces the installation to a single device (although it has an external Power supply, so 2 things to mount) that can do AirPlay and stream from a shared folder on a PC or NAS box. Not sure how it's controlled though - can't see any apps on the App Store for it. Assuming you haven't got a NAS you'll need to set up a shared folder on your PC, so to stream from that it needs to be on (same as above if streaming from iTunes to airport express)
Cost for this is the amp, about £280 according to google.
Install a Sonos Amp in the same hidden space. This might be more difficult as the amp looks bigger than the VAST one, but it does have a built in power supply. How it compares to the first option depends on the amp you choose I guess. Sonos has an excellent set of apps (iOS, android, PC & Mac) and the ability to stream from devices, NAS, shared folders and a pretty extensive list of online music services (Spotify, Deezer, Apple Music, Google Music) and Internet radio. The external streams only have to be initiated by the controlling device, which is a nice touch as it doesn't drain your smartphone battery.
Cost is about £400 for the amp, unless there's discounts to be had these days.
Fourth option is probably some kind of other integrated amp that does what the Sonos one does. I've tried a Denon Ceol in the past and both the app to control it and the reliability were poor, requiring frequent resets. IMHO that would also be my concern around the VAST stuff as there don't seem to be any easily found glowing reviews of their products and without mass market adoption software/firmware updates are likely to be few and far between. In my experience the most likely common reason give up on using technology is if it doesn't work consistently each time, so if you're constantly needing to reset or re-configure something for other users it'll soon be ignored.
To put this in context I'm not a huge Sonos fanboy, although I use the amp and the connect I recently bought a Ruark R1 and R2 for the home be issue both my wife and I considered the Play 1 both poor sounding and reasonably ugly.
Edited by survivalist on Wednesday 13th January 06:10
I like the options highlighted above. A potentially cheaper option to Sonos is Chromecast Audio but you'll need a separate amp. It works similarly to Sonos (phone is the controller, rather than streaming source), and depending on your amp solution, could be small or easier to incorporate into a small roof-space.
You're likely to have lighting in the room, so getting power to any option shouldn't be hard.
You're likely to have lighting in the room, so getting power to any option shouldn't be hard.
Not sure I'd be able to fit the Sonos amp into the roof void, only going to have a few inches of space. Would also have to cut a service hatch in the roof to get to it, I can place the other amp behind one of the speakers so if it breaks then there's no concern about getting to it and repairing it.
The space is basically a big conservatory, one wall is entirely glass, the side walls are 6/8 blockwork with glass at the top. To the rest of the house there's a large opening into the dining room and another into the kitchen, in the middle there's some supporting structure where a log burner will be that exhausts out of the roof.
I appreciate people have a hard on for their kit but it's not desirable in this instance as I'm wanting something that's totally hidden. The solution in the original post that looks like it'll work on paper, I can place it behind of the speakers without having to cut any additional holes in the roof. However I've not seen much in the way of an alternative other than visible stuff like the Sonos.
I'll try the Vast amp and see how it goes if it's no good then if I cut a hole in the wall (they're 1200mm thick) I could probably hide a BMW in there and cover that with a painting, should be possible without upsetting the insulation too much.
The space is basically a big conservatory, one wall is entirely glass, the side walls are 6/8 blockwork with glass at the top. To the rest of the house there's a large opening into the dining room and another into the kitchen, in the middle there's some supporting structure where a log burner will be that exhausts out of the roof.
I appreciate people have a hard on for their kit but it's not desirable in this instance as I'm wanting something that's totally hidden. The solution in the original post that looks like it'll work on paper, I can place it behind of the speakers without having to cut any additional holes in the roof. However I've not seen much in the way of an alternative other than visible stuff like the Sonos.
I'll try the Vast amp and see how it goes if it's no good then if I cut a hole in the wall (they're 1200mm thick) I could probably hide a BMW in there and cover that with a painting, should be possible without upsetting the insulation too much.
My setup is basically Chromecast Audio connected to a Lepai car amplified (12v), hooked up to whatever speakers you like.
Cost us about £40 + Speakers.
Big advantage with the CC Audio is that you can group then to give you whatever multi room setup you want. Works really well.
You can easily fit the lot in a ceiling void, but you should consider a better location and some wires really.
Cost us about £40 + Speakers.
Big advantage with the CC Audio is that you can group then to give you whatever multi room setup you want. Works really well.
You can easily fit the lot in a ceiling void, but you should consider a better location and some wires really.
paulrockliffe said:
My setup is basically Chromecast Audio connected to a Lepai car amplified (12v), hooked up to whatever speakers you like.
Cost us about £40 + Speakers.
Big advantage with the CC Audio is that you can group then to give you whatever multi room setup you want. Works really well.
You can easily fit the lot in a ceiling void, but you should consider a better location and some wires really.
What do you use for a power supply?Cost us about £40 + Speakers.
Big advantage with the CC Audio is that you can group then to give you whatever multi room setup you want. Works really well.
You can easily fit the lot in a ceiling void, but you should consider a better location and some wires really.
paulrockliffe said:
My setup is basically Chromecast Audio connected to a Lepai car amplified (12v), hooked up to whatever speakers you like.
Cost us about £40 + Speakers.
Big advantage with the CC Audio is that you can group then to give you whatever multi room setup you want. Works really well.
You can easily fit the lot in a ceiling void, but you should consider a better location and some wires really.
Cost us about £40 + Speakers.
Big advantage with the CC Audio is that you can group then to give you whatever multi room setup you want. Works really well.
You can easily fit the lot in a ceiling void, but you should consider a better location and some wires really.
Watchman said:
What do you use for a power supply?
The Lepai/Lepy amps often come with a UK wall adaptor. If not they aren't expensive on eBay.My recommendation would be similar - I'm doing something similar in my bedroom / kitchen. I wanted small, cheap, but flexible, specifically supporting AirPlay, and can play back music over a network.
I've gone for a Rasperry Pi running Kodi (overkill, but I use Kodi elsewhere so can share libraries), connected to a Class T amp (very small). You should easily be able to hide these somewhere.
qube_TA said:
Not sure I'd be able to fit the Sonos amp into the roof void, only going to have a few inches of space. Would also have to cut a service hatch in the roof to get to it, I can place the other amp behind one of the speakers so if it breaks then there's no concern about getting to it and repairing it.
I appreciate people have a hard on for their kit but it's not desirable in this instance as I'm wanting something that's totally hidden.
I suggested it as I have done it. It is not a case of getting a hard on at all. I appreciate people have a hard on for their kit but it's not desirable in this instance as I'm wanting something that's totally hidden.
I used Kef Ci200 ceiling speakers and the Sonos connect amp, the cut out for the speaker is 240mm, the amp is around 210mm on the long side, then 100m deep and about 90mm high, it fits in the cavity behind the speaker perfectly.
And as I said, there is a subwoofer output, which imho, is essential with ceiling speakers if you want to use them as anything other than a bit of Radio 5.
So no need to be such a numpty when people are trying to help you out.
The amps cover with a power supply, but they looked like rubbish so I didn't use them. I have a bank of 6 amps, so I bought I've decent part supply, select the right voltage and wattage and use the writes from the original PSUs. I put the PSU on a timer.
One day I might find a way to have the output from the CCs trigger a relay to turn the PSU on and off, but I haven't worked that out yet.
All my kit is in one place as I had all the floors up so running wires was easy.
One day I might find a way to have the output from the CCs trigger a relay to turn the PSU on and off, but I haven't worked that out yet.
All my kit is in one place as I had all the floors up so running wires was easy.
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