Educate me on valve amps.

[Baz Tench]

Hi, I'm having a lazy Saturday morning ebay trawl, and I came across this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Madison-Vintage-100w-Tub...

I always thought valve amps were crazy expensive, but this seems reasonable enough. I know, I know, you get what you pay for etc. but what are the collective thoughts on this? Worth a punt? I've never heard of the manufacturer before.

I'm not taking any notice of the power output claims by the way. The little I do know about them is that that's not what they are about.

[lostmotel]

Some of the Chinese valve amps are highly rated by the guys on diyaudio, especially the Audioromy ones, e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDIOROMY-FU29-x-2-Vacuu...

The guy at Lampizator (Ukrainian valve amp legend) has a whole section on them http://lampizator.eu/AMPLIFIERS/AMPS.html He describes an Audioromy one as sounding like a Yamaha home cinema receiver, which is certainly no bad thing. My Yamaha HTS something or other sounds pretty good when married to a decent pair of speakers. I'd say it's nearly on par with my old NAD C320 amp.

So you're not going to get amazing sound quality out of the box, but they seem easy enough to mod if that's your thing, and of course they look pretty cool.

[Troubleatmill]

Well the tubes used are very very cheap.

I would suggest do some digging.
It says it is 100Watts.

Those tubes are not going to put out 100watts.

Try and find a valve amplifier with some proper reviews out there.

I'd also look for one that doesn't have bluetooth etc etc.

Or... if you are handy with a soldering iron... build your own.

[Baz Tench]

Interesting. Thanks for that. I might go for the one you've posted, I'm curious now.

[Baz Tench]

Troubleatmill said:

Well the tubes used are very very cheap.

I would suggest do some digging.
It says it is 100Watts.

Those tubes are not going to put out 100watts.

Try and find a valve amplifier with some proper reviews out there.

I'd also look for one that doesn't have bluetooth etc etc.

Or... if you are handy with a soldering iron... build your own.

Even more intriguing. I do like to tinker.

[telecat]

I have the "Classic" Audio Innovations S500. Usually go for £450 for a standard amp with Chinese or Russian Valves. Mine has Mullard's and the better three tap power supply so would be nearer £1000.

[Troubleatmill]

Baz Tench said:

Troubleatmill said:

Well the tubes used are very very cheap.

I would suggest do some digging.
It says it is 100Watts.

Those tubes are not going to put out 100watts.

Try and find a valve amplifier with some proper reviews out there.

I'd also look for one that doesn't have bluetooth etc etc.

Or... if you are handy with a soldering iron... build your own.

Even more intriguing. I do like to tinker.

Plenty of DIY Kits out there.
And plenty of free valve amps designs out there.

Just learn to read a circuit. Not hard.. Even a newbie can learn it under a month.

Google Valve amplifier and tube amplifier. ( The former colonies call them tubes )

I'll dig up some threads for you tomorrow.

[kenny.R400]

I've got a house full of all types of hifi which includes a selection of valve amps.

I wouldn't worry what "watts" the sellers claim as it often bears no resemblance to what you are used to with solid state.

My fave here at present is a DIY EL 34 push/pull amp which was built by a super hifi engineer who is sadly no longer with us. I believe it is rated at 25 wpc in to 8ohms.

Believe me this little beast has more grunt and depth than any of my big Naim amps and will drive any speaker it's asked to.
Last time I had it running it was partnered with a set of Isobariks and was incredible.

Hope you do get one shortly and enjoy the search, if you are anywhere near me (Wigan area) you are welcome to come and see some gear.
Another amp I feel would be a great little starter is the Leak 20, when serviced these little things laugh at the modern stuff too.
Cheers

[Monty Python]

I'd say that the Madison amp is only good for about 25W per channel. It's based on a kit that's rebranded by several retailers.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nobsound-MS-10D-MKII-Blu...

[Baz Tench]

Thanks for the replies. I'm currently putting a retro system together in my living-room. I have a mid to late 70s Rotel RA-812 amp at the moment which I love, but I am tempted by these valve/tube amps.

I think the itch will get scratched soon, it usually does after say a bottle of red....

[battered]

It looks like a fairly standard issue EL34 valve amp, there are loads out there. At that price, why not buy it for a laugh? I did my Yaqin for similar money, the transformers will cost more than that to DIY, and 9 years on it's had a couple of repairs and still sounds sweet and looks great.

[Baz Tench]

kenny.R400 said:

I've got a house full of all types of hifi which includes a selection of valve amps.

I wouldn't worry what "watts" the sellers claim as it often bears no resemblance to what you are used to with solid state.

My fave here at present is a DIY EL 34 push/pull amp which was built by a super hifi engineer who is sadly no longer with us. I believe it is rated at 25 wpc in to 8ohms.

Believe me this little beast has more grunt and depth than any of my big Naim amps and will drive any speaker it's asked to.
Last time I had it running it was partnered with a set of Isobariks and was incredible.

Hope you do get one shortly and enjoy the search, if you are anywhere near me (Wigan area) you are welcome to come and see some gear.
Another amp I feel would be a great little starter is the Leak 20, when serviced these little things laugh at the modern stuff too.
Cheers

I appreciate the gesture, but I'm a bit too far away unfortunately (Worcestershire).

I can see myself obsessing over these now, a purchase will be imminent, I'm sure.

[David A]

I've got a yaqin mc 100b with kt88 valves. For a Chinese eBay job I'm surprised at how very very good it sounds. Also goes bloody loud!

[Monty Python]

David A said:

I've got a yaqin mc 100b with kt88 valves. For a Chinese eBay job I'm surprised at how very very good it sounds. Also goes bloody loud!

How long have you had it? I've heard reports of the valves blowing because they're being run at too high a voltage.

[battered]

Make sure you buy one with a 240V transformer. I bought one SH with a 220V one, used it for a while, the trafo burned out. I now have a 240V primary trafo, £90, it's been rock reliable ever since.

[Funk]

I have a Music Angel XDSE KT88 on the rack the other side of the room for testing and have to say I'm impressed at how good it sounds for £300. Not enough for me to change my usual amp but quite intriguing nonetheless.

[David A]

Monty Python said:

How long have you had it? I've heard reports of the valves blowing because they're being run at too high a voltage.

A few years - its paired with a behringer DAC (24-Bit/96 kHz A/D-D/A & Sample Rate Converter) and flac collection and some KEF Q700s

I also bought an APC1200 Line-R voltage regulator that supplies the right voltage nicely to it. You do have "balance" the valves with a multimeter (but its been a while since I did that) It's a hefty bit of kit 25KG+

Still if the valves blow good reason to upgrade valves !

I liked the one at home so much, on my desk at work I have an APC 1200, a headphone valve amp, seperate USB DAC and some beyer dt 880s, and my flac collection. Works well for skype and web meetings too.

[Tom_C76]

Troubleatmill said:

Well the tubes used are very very cheap.

I would suggest do some digging.
It says it is 100Watts.

Those tubes are not going to put out 100watts.

Try and find a valve amplifier with some proper reviews out there.

I'd also look for one that doesn't have bluetooth etc etc.

Or... if you are handy with a soldering iron... build your own.

The ad states 25W per channel RMS, and that should be perfectly feasible with 2 EL34s. In a guitar amp running as a single channel pair EL34s push out 50W plus, up to 80W or so once fully saturated (which wouldn't work well on hifi but is great on a Marshall).

I guess the 100W in the headline is total PMPO, same as the cheap midi systems used to claim bizarre power outputs. F friend once had cheap speakers rated at peak output and an amp rated at RMS, which resulted in escape of the magic smoke from the driver coils.

[Tom_C76]

Monty Python said:

How long have you had it? I've heard reports of the valves blowing because they're being run at too high a voltage.

I'd suspect dodgy valves rather than a voltage issue. KT88s should be virtually indestructible.

[Monty Python]

Tom_C76 said:

I'd suspect dodgy valves rather than a voltage issue. KT88s should be virtually indestructible.

The source I read said that the PSU was putting too much voltage into the valves - once they'd dropped it to the correct level it was fine. After all, most valves nowadays come from the same place with just different branding.