How many subs do I need?
Discussion
I'm loving my new Yamaha 1050 Aventage so much, I cannot stop tinkering with it! Currently I'm running a 5.1 speaker setup with ProAc floor standing fronts and it sounds great but I'm struggling with the bass management settings. I have one sub which is a Cambridge Audio Minx 300 (great little unit) which sits in the corner of the room and I'm thinking of buying another for the other corner for a more even sound when playing music and LFE on movies. I've set the crossover frequency to 60hz but thinking of upping it to 80hz so the subs are doing more work, more of the time.
My question is, is it worth having 2 subs? The amp has 2 outputs and I'm trying to persuade myself not to go out buying more goodies!
My question is, is it worth having 2 subs? The amp has 2 outputs and I'm trying to persuade myself not to go out buying more goodies!
Yes, deffo worth it - but don't think that more subs = louder, necessarily.
More subs = less lumpy in room response. To see what I mean, put a low bassline through the sub. Test tone is ideal, but dance music often works ok too.
Stand by the middle of the side wall to the right of your telly. Walk to the other wall slowly. See that it goes loud, quiet, loud, quiet? This is the effect of room accoustics. If you have 2 subs, those peaks and troughs flatten out a bit, meaning the net result is better (assuming you don't have 1 single seat that you listen / watch from).
Of course, if instead you put the 2 subs right next to each other, it's simply louder...
More subs = less lumpy in room response. To see what I mean, put a low bassline through the sub. Test tone is ideal, but dance music often works ok too.
Stand by the middle of the side wall to the right of your telly. Walk to the other wall slowly. See that it goes loud, quiet, loud, quiet? This is the effect of room accoustics. If you have 2 subs, those peaks and troughs flatten out a bit, meaning the net result is better (assuming you don't have 1 single seat that you listen / watch from).
Of course, if instead you put the 2 subs right next to each other, it's simply louder...
Consider one of these......
http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200-DFan...
The Cambridge sub you have is design to add more weight to small satellite speakers, it starts to roll off around 38hz, your ProAcs probably go as low as the sub.
That BK will go down into proper sub levels and it is pretty fast, so you could crossover at 80hz no problem at all.
It will open up your soundstage alot and give your speakers and amp a much easier time of it so it will be far more controlled.
It is an absolute AV Bargain imho.
http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200-DFan...
The Cambridge sub you have is design to add more weight to small satellite speakers, it starts to roll off around 38hz, your ProAcs probably go as low as the sub.
That BK will go down into proper sub levels and it is pretty fast, so you could crossover at 80hz no problem at all.
It will open up your soundstage alot and give your speakers and amp a much easier time of it so it will be far more controlled.
It is an absolute AV Bargain imho.
gizlaroc said:
Consider one of these......
http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200-DFan...
The Cambridge sub you have is design to add more weight to small satellite speakers, it starts to roll off around 38hz, your ProAcs probably go as low as the sub.
That BK will go down into proper sub levels and it is pretty fast, so you could crossover at 80hz no problem at all.
It will open up your soundstage alot and give your speakers and amp a much easier time of it so it will be far more controlled.
It is an absolute AV Bargain imho.
Hmmmm, very interesting. Thanks. Would that work with my slightly smaller Cambridge sub? Would prefer to use both and I guess my AV processor can work it out?http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200-DFan...
The Cambridge sub you have is design to add more weight to small satellite speakers, it starts to roll off around 38hz, your ProAcs probably go as low as the sub.
That BK will go down into proper sub levels and it is pretty fast, so you could crossover at 80hz no problem at all.
It will open up your soundstage alot and give your speakers and amp a much easier time of it so it will be far more controlled.
It is an absolute AV Bargain imho.
gizlaroc said:
What ProAcs are they?
Studio 150 floor standersFound some info on my sub & frequency response is 33Hz (-6dB) – 200Hz. Spent a bit of time this morning fiddling with it and got it sounding pretty decent but as you say, I'm not sure it's doing anything that the speakers couldn't manage by themselves. I guess it's taking strain off the amp and speakers at higher volumes?
That BK sub you referred to goes down to 17 HZ which is pretty impressive. What difference in sound could I expect if I got one of those instead?
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 April 16:29
wormus said:
Studio 150 floor standers
Found some info on my sub & frequency response is 33Hz (-6dB) – 200Hz. Spent a bit of time this morning fiddling with it and got it sounding pretty decent but as you say, I'm not sure it's doing anything that the speakers couldn't manage by themselves. I guess it's taking strain off the amp and speakers at higher volumes?
That BK sub you referred to goes down to 17 HZ which is pretty impressive. What difference in sound could I expect if I got one of those instead?
The 150s went down as low as the sub, all the sub is probably doing is adding more of the same. Found some info on my sub & frequency response is 33Hz (-6dB) – 200Hz. Spent a bit of time this morning fiddling with it and got it sounding pretty decent but as you say, I'm not sure it's doing anything that the speakers couldn't manage by themselves. I guess it's taking strain off the amp and speakers at higher volumes?
That BK sub you referred to goes down to 17 HZ which is pretty impressive. What difference in sound could I expect if I got one of those instead?
The BK would give you lots more low end, and in the low end is lots of ambience, this can open up the sound stage dramatically. Also, it is a fast sub, which means you could crossover and send everything above 60hz, even 80hz to the sub, taking away pressure from your Yammy amp and the speakers, which would in turn give far more control at higher volumes.
I will be honest here, I was a bit of a brand snob and always bought Rel, but hearing that sub against a £1500 Rel I have decided to get one myself, it was very impressive.
gizlaroc said:
Consider one of these......
http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200-DFan...
It is an absolute AV Bargain imho.
ooh i like the look of those, for av where is the current positioning thinking-one left and right at the front or one front and rear?http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200-DFan...
It is an absolute AV Bargain imho.
gizlaroc said:
The 150s went down as low as the sub, all the sub is probably doing is adding more of the same.
The BK would give you lots more low end, and in the low end is lots of ambience, this can open up the sound stage dramatically. Also, it is a fast sub, which means you could crossover and send everything above 60hz, even 80hz to the sub, taking away pressure from your Yammy amp and the speakers, which would in turn give far more control at higher volumes.
I will be honest here, I was a bit of a brand snob and always bought Rel, but hearing that sub against a £1500 Rel I have decided to get one myself, it was very impressive.
Yes, my finger is hovering over the "pay now" button. One potential fly in the ointment is it doesn't seem to automatically switch itself on/off like my Cambridge sub. What are you supposed to do, switch it off when not in use or leave it on 24x7?The BK would give you lots more low end, and in the low end is lots of ambience, this can open up the sound stage dramatically. Also, it is a fast sub, which means you could crossover and send everything above 60hz, even 80hz to the sub, taking away pressure from your Yammy amp and the speakers, which would in turn give far more control at higher volumes.
I will be honest here, I was a bit of a brand snob and always bought Rel, but hearing that sub against a £1500 Rel I have decided to get one myself, it was very impressive.
wormus said:
Yes, my finger is hovering over the "pay now" button. One potential fly in the ointment is it doesn't seem to automatically switch itself on/off like my Cambridge sub. What are you supposed to do, switch it off when not in use or leave it on 24x7?
I tend to leave my Gemini on all the time; if I'm going away for a week or so I'll turn it off. I'm aiming to upgrade to the XLS-200 (would like to go bigger, but my wife won't allow a bigger box in our snug).If you can stretch to the P12-300SB, this has an auto off feature.
Been very happy with my BK sub, I'd agree with Giz though - get rid of the other sub as it's not going to add anything (and you may also get issues with phasing).
wormus said:
Common opinion is you should put them up with the fronts, preferably one in each corner.
Mid-points of opposing walls are better, or opposite corners. The Harman white paper on multiple subs has the details on why that positioning is preferable. Having both subs at the front was a myth put about by hifi dealers as it's an easier sell.gizlaroc said:
I will be honest here, I was a bit of a brand snob and always bought Rel, but hearing that sub against a £1500 Rel I have decided to get one myself, it was very impressive.
Might be remembering this wrongly, but pretty sure BK used to make subs for REL?ladderino said:
I tend to leave my Gemini on all the time; if I'm going away for a week or so I'll turn it off. I'm aiming to upgrade to the XLS-200 (would like to go bigger, but my wife won't allow a bigger box in our snug).
If you can stretch to the P12-300SB, this has an auto off feature.
Been very happy with my BK sub, I'd agree with Giz though - get rid of the other sub as it's not going to add anything (and you may also get issues with phasing).
Thanks for your response, I completely missed this http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/P12300SB-DF...If you can stretch to the P12-300SB, this has an auto off feature.
Been very happy with my BK sub, I'd agree with Giz though - get rid of the other sub as it's not going to add anything (and you may also get issues with phasing).
Looks like one of these would suit my needs perfectly. Before I go ahead and buy, would this be a good match musically for my ProAcs or should I go for the XLS 200?
Also, I'm guessing I can get away with one of these as 2'would be overkill?
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 24th April 12:12
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