Confused: B&W PV1 sub set up

[alolympic]

I am failing to create the set up I desire, not sure why.....

So, I have got a B&W PV1 sub, and a pair of B&O Beolab 8000 speakers.
I want to use Chromecast Audio as my source.
I shouldn’t really need an amp as both the sub and speakers are active.
Connecting direct to the 8000’s without the sub is fine. Problem is, when connecting the sub I go down to mono.
The PV1 has a single rca input and a single rca output.
I have tried using a pair of splitters to take the signal from the CC and then the output to connect to the individual speakers. When doing this, the sound is fine, until I realised that the speakers are now not splitting the sound into stereo
What am I doing wrong?...is it me doing something daft or is the single input/output of the PV1 always going to limit what I am trying to do without using high level connects via an amp?

Many thanks

[legzr1]

How did you use the speakers and sub before getting the CCaudio?

Reason I ask is that, even though they're both active, you'll still need a pre-amp to control the output level.

If this is the first time you've used any of them then the usual way would be CCaudio into a pre-amp, pre-amp to Beolabs alongside a sub out to PV1.
I'm guessing the main use for the mono RCA output in the sub is to daisychain another sub.

On a pre-amp without dedicated sub out you could split one of the stereo channels and feed it to both the B&O and the PV1.

[alolympic]

legzr1 said:

How did you use the speakers and sub before getting the CCaudio?

Reason I ask is that, even though they're both active, you'll still need a pre-amp to control the output level.

If this is the first time you've used any of them then the usual way would be CCaudio into a pre-amp, pre-amp to Beolabs alongside a sub out to PV1.
I'm guessing the main use for the mono RCA output in the sub is to daisychain another sub.

On a pre-amp without dedicated sub out you could split one of the stereo channels and feed it to both the B&O and the PV1.

Thanks for the reply.
The sub is brand new to me, so I have not had it running any other way.
I’m not sure I follow why I would still need a pre amp to control the output level.
The sub has a volume control so I can set the volume relative to the speakers and then I just use my phone to control the CC.

I have tried using an old amp as part of the set up. Sub connected via the RJ11 type cable to the speaker terminals on the amp. There is no sub out on this amp. The 8000’s are connected through the pre outs. I am getting humming through the sub but at least the speakers are outputting in stereo.
I ideally want to avoid the extra components and cables involved in relying on an amp.

I wonder if a different sub with left and right input and outputs is going to get around the problem?

[Stormfly1985]

As mentioned, you need a pre-amp for this to work properly.

The pre-amp would split the signal - sending bass to the sub and the remaining signal to the speakers. I'm not familiar withe CC audio but I would imagine it doesn't have the capability to do bass management.

Some subs have the ability to take a line-level input and filter off the bass, then send the rest of signal to the amp - I don't think your sub can do this. I'm sure you could find a cheap pre-amp on Ebay that has 2 sets of pre-outs. one pair to the sub, the other to the speakers, and you then adjust the filter on the sub as needed.

[alolympic]

Thanks for the reply.

I do have a Project phono amp, would that work as a suitable pre amp?

[legzr1]

I'm unfamiliar with the CCaudio but I've used various apps to control streamers and AV amps over the years and I hate using the volume controls on them. Far too easy to accidentally put volume at max and risk damage to everything downstream.

No, soft remote control buttons for me - easier to select desired level too.

Which amp are you using? Make, model etc.

The PV1 is a decent sub - there are better subs out there nowadays with more depth, volume and controls for similar money but few will match the style - I imagine it looks good with the B&O kit.
However, crossover is only available using speaker level inputs - the phono (line level RCA) inputs doesn't have a crossover. This is because B&W expect it to be used with an AV pre or amp with a correct filtered output. This is a real shame as I don't like using speaker level input (also it's impossible with a pre-amp!).

The simple solution is mentioned above - get an AV pre amp or AV integrated - ironically, a full AV amp can be had far cheaper than a pre even though it contains all the amp modules!

Pre-out L&R to B&O, sub out to PV1 using a single LFE RCA lead and select crossover on the AV amp.

The phono amp is of no use - this is used to amplify the tiny signal from a T/T to line level for input into a pre or integrated amp.

I can have a quick look around for amps that would work if you like?

This would also give you the option of adding another 3 beolabs in the future for a nice stylish surround set up.

[Stormfly1985]

Something like this would work: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/NVA-P50-Phono-Pre-Amp-Pro...

[legzr1]

Ok, had a quick look around and it seems B&W actually recommend speaker level connections for stereo use - suppose that's because of possible issues with lack of crossover for line level.

If you're happy with the sound quality using your current amp then your issue could be easily solved with a new amp-sub cable.

I've found a few threads from years ago saying a new lead solved all the hum and feedback noise.
This would also allow you to use the crossovers on the PV1 so the sub isn't trying to reproduce frequencies it wasn't designed to.

Example:
https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/subwoofer-hum...

[Stormfly1985]

There's no line level out of the sub though. Something like an SVS SB2000 would work a lot better.

[benz0]

your sub has crap connectivity, to be blunt. most other subs would normally have an option to feed the full range signal into the sub, cross over the bass, and then feed a signal to the main speakers with the bass filtered out at your cross over determined level.

you can either swap it for a sub that has that functionality, or faff about getting another pre amp or amp/receiver to do all this for you.

As it looks like you want a simple and elegant solution, I would sack off the BW sub and get one with the right connectivity. Then you can simply connect your CC to the sub and sub to the speakers.. very simple.

[legzr1]

Stormfly1985 said:

There's no line level out of the sub though. Something like an SVS SB2000 would work a lot better.

There doesn't need to be a line level out.

CCaudio into amp input (setting volume on CC to max).
Speaker cable output from existing amp to sub. This allows use of the B&W crossover.

Line level RCA output from pre-outs on amp to active beolabs.

Set and forget.

Agree on the SVS (I've used them for years and they're excellent - currently using a PC13-U) but there's a solution using his existing kit - I'd start with a new speaker level lead from eBay or B&W dealer.

[Stormfly1985]

The amp is built into the speakers though

That's the main issue - if the OP had a "traditional" amp it would be fine. Different sub seems the best course of action. I have a SB16 Ultra and it's amazing!

[alolympic]

Ok, thanks so much for everyone’s help. Me head is spinning a bit!

The amp I am using is my old Cambridge Audio a5.

I am happy to buy a new integrated amp with pre out and sub out if I can get one cheap enough.
Alternatively I am happy to pay a bit more if I can get one that includes more connectivity options. We listen to bbc6 a lot so anything that includes DAB or internet radio too meaning I don’t need to rely on an app would be a small advantage.

Alternatively if I can buy a compact sub that can be had for about £350 then I can sell the PV1 and just connect direct.

A bit frustrating as I bought the pv1 specifically on the advice of an apparent specialist who said it would be a good match with the Beolabs and CC.

[legzr1]

Stormfly1985 said:

The amp is built into the speakers though

That's the main issue - if the OP had a "traditional" amp it would be fine. Different sub seems the best course of action. I have a SB16 Ultra and it's amazing!

Eh?

OP has active speakers - of course they have amplifiers built in.
The sub is active too with built in amplifier.

Use the Cambridge A5 like this (the way I suspect he already is...)
Pre-out L&R to Beolab speakers.
Speaker level to sub using a replacement lead to alleviate hum problems.
No need for a new amp or subwoofer, just that lead.

Not sure what you meant by no phono out from sub - in this set up it doesn't matter.

[legzr1]

alolympic said:

Ok, thanks so much for everyone’s help. Me head is spinning a bit!

The amp I am using is my old Cambridge Audio a5.

I am happy to buy a new integrated amp with pre out and sub out if I can get one cheap enough.
Alternatively I am happy to pay a bit more if I can get one that includes more connectivity options. We listen to bbc6 a lot so anything that includes DAB or internet radio too meaning I don’t need to rely on an app would be a small advantage.

Alternatively if I can buy a compact sub that can be had for about £350 then I can sell the PV1 and just connect direct.

A bit frustrating as I bought the pv1 specifically on the advice of an apparent specialist who said it would be a good match with the Beolabs and CC.

Source a new speaker level lead for connection from A5 to PV1 - this should work. Listen and see what you think. If still not happy...

Your speakers and a PV1 should sound fairly decent and a world away from the likes of BT speakers or the likes of Sonos.
With that in mind, an AV processor would solve all your issues - as it's a processor it contains no amplifiers but you don't need them - simply feed L&R to Beolab, set crossover to desired level on the amp and connect sub-out from processor to PV1. They're easier to find than stereo amps with sub outs and most recent ones come with network connections meaning access to internet radio (replacing dab) as well as steaming services.
Or go for a slightly older model and plug in your CC for similar services.

[alolympic]

So, I tried another method last night and I am pleased to say I found at least a temporary solution.
Beolabs connected to the L and R pre outs on the amp.
I then used an rca splitter to also connect the sub cable from the L pre out.
So, it is all working. Because I am using the rca input rather than speaker level, I still can’t set the crossover but so far, it is sounding pretty tight to me.
I will try and find one another of these speaker cables......