AVR sound from Sky box-whats wrong

[Steviesam]

I have just bought a Denon AV receiver avr-x2200w after advice on here a while ago.

I connected Sky+HD box directly to the AV receiver using HDMI, and then an HDMI from the receiver to the TV.

Sound etc all working correctly.

But, when I Bluetooth my music, it sounds great (well, to my old ears anyway), sub woofer giving nice base etc. and the display telling me I am using all my speakers.

But when watching the TV (on HD) the sound is no where near as good as when playing music. Although it says its using all the speakers, the quality sounds a bit tinny and not very surround-dy.

Why is this?

If I connected the Sky box to the AV receiver with an optical cable would that improve things, or is it just that the SKY box outputs crap sound.

• I have changed the Sky outputs to Dolby as suggested).

Thanks

[SS2.]

The sound quality from a streamed service is likely to be better than that from any of the Sky SD music channels.

With regard to surround, could it be the channels you are watching are broadcasting in stereo only ? If so, you could try changing the surround settings on the amp ie is there an 'AllChStereo' mode or similar ?

[Steviesam]

Thanks. Yes there is an "allchannelsound" setting. I will change it to that.

Cheers

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

I have just bought a Denon AV receiver avr-x2200w after advice on here a while ago.

I connected Sky+HD box directly to the AV receiver using HDMI, and then an HDMI from the receiver to the TV.

Sound etc all working correctly.

But, when I Bluetooth my music, it sounds great (well, to my old ears anyway), sub woofer giving nice base etc. and the display telling me I am using all my speakers.

But when watching the TV (on HD) the sound is no where near as good as when playing music. Although it says its using all the speakers, the quality sounds a bit tinny and not very surround-dy.

Why is this?

If I connected the Sky box to the AV receiver with an optical cable would that improve things, or is it just that the SKY box outputs crap sound.

• I have changed the Sky outputs to Dolby as suggested).

Thanks

Bluetooth using all the speakers, is a 2ch signal input, using Dolby/DTS algorithms to produce fake surround sound. Or you are in fact running 5/7 Speaker Stereo Mode.

Your music is at a line out level. This is (should be) similar to the loudest segments of audio during action sequences on Dolby Digital inputs.

So normally, when people say this, they are not comparing like for like.
You might need to turn up the amp a LOT to do this.

Please confirm the x-over on the subwoofer enclosure was set to maximum, before you started the auto-setup.

Which speakers and sub are they please?

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

Thanks. Yes there is an "allchannelsound" setting. I will change it to that.

Cheers

This is rubbish for anything other than filling a room with music and does away with all surround sound processing. It also gives no stereo image at all.

You’ll be getting on screen dialog and action from your surround speakers, which are presumably closer to you than the from soundstage?

Use Dolby Surround as the default for Sky and all other vision based formats.
The amp will auto detect Dolby Dig and the highter bit rate HD formats for you

[Steviesam]

Red 5 said:

Bluetooth using all the speakers, is a 2ch signal input, using Dolby/DTS algorithms to produce fake surround sound. Or you are in fact running 5/7 Speaker Stereo Mode.

Your music is at a line out level. This is (should be) similar to the loudest segments of audio during action sequences on Dolby Digital inputs.

So normally, when people say this, they are not comparing like for like.
You might need to turn up the amp a LOT to do this.

Please confirm the x-over on the subwoofer enclosure was set to maximum, before you started the auto-setup.

Which speakers and sub are they please?

Speakers and sub are from the old Panasonic system. I have kept them for 2 reasons:-I cant afford any new ones yet and 2 all the speaker cables are buried inside a 3 foot cotswold stone wall!

Regarding the x over questions, I cant answer that since its way above my intellect level to even know what that is!

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

Speakers and sub are from the old Panasonic system. I have kept them for 2 reasons:-I cant afford any new ones yet and 2 all the speaker cables are buried inside a 3 foot cotswold stone wall!

Regarding the x over questions, I cant answer that since its way above my intellect level to even know what that is!

Haha, I doubt it. I just asked badly.

Does the sub plug into the mains (that would make it an active sub)
This is not a given, due to the provenance.

If it does, it might well have two films on the back.
One is the volume/gain of the sub.
The other one is the cross-over dial. This dictates how much of the low bass sounds are played vie the sub. The rest will have to come from the main L/R speakers.

If in any doubt, post a few pics.

[Steviesam]

I see.

No mains power to the sub, and only the 2 speaker wires, no other settings or buttons.

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

I see.

No mains power to the sub, and only the 2 speaker wires, no other settings or buttons.

Ok, if it’s not an active sub, it means the old system had the amps and cross-over electronics in the main AV unit.

There is no amplified sub output on the 2200, so what have you wired it up to please?

Q : Do the Left / Right main speakers wire to the sub, or directly to the amp?

It does sound like you have some incompatibility here.
If we can work out a few more details, I’ll be able to explain the best short term compromise.

[Steviesam]

OK, all the surround speakers are wired into the correct places on the amp.

On the back of the 2200 there is are 2 pre outs, labelled subwoofer 1 and 2. However, when I plug into those, no sound from SW.

Someone at work suggested plugging the 2 sub wires into a normal speaker input-so I chose the front left input (1 sub wire in the red clamp and 1 sub wire in the black clamp)

It work in that there is noise coming out, but its clearly not right and proper.

Cheers!

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

OK, all the surround speakers are wired into the correct places on the amp.

On the back of the 2200 there is are 2 pre outs, labelled subwoofer 1 and 2. However, when I plug into those, no sound from SW.

Someone at work suggested plugging the 2 sub wires into a normal speaker input-so I chose the front left input (1 sub wire in the red clamp and 1 sub wire in the black clamp)

It work in that there is noise coming out, but its clearly not right and proper.

Cheers!

Right I see now.
Your old system did indeed have the sub amp and cross-over in the main AV unit.
For your system now, without some spending, there is a way get get up and running.

You now have a proper AV amp that requires a cinema type active active sub.
This is to be connected with an RCA cable to one of those pre-out connectors.
The .1 of the 5.1 can’t be reproduced currently, so your upgrade is still to be completed


So for now, we need to cheat.....
Your sub is a normal passive speaker, so needs to be run from speaker outputs.
You need to clear the Audyessey setting currently stored in the audio menu.

1. Set you ‘amp assignment’ to Bi-Amp front speakers
2. Wire the sub up to Left surround Back speaker terminal.
3. Select L/R speakers to large
4. Select centre and surrounds as small.
5. Set sub to NO, because you do not own one.
6. Set L/R speaker cross-over points manually to 60hz
7. Set centre and surround speakers to 150hz
8. Adjust the speaker balance (individual volumes) to taste.

Do not use the set-up mic!
Do not wire both L and R to the sub. It seems like a good idea, but can damage the Denon!

Now use it and be very careful with volume, as we’re sending too much to the L/R speakers really. Low volumes ideally, until you get a proper active sub.
You will now have Left chan bass only, but it’s better than nothing!

A second hand sub for £150 will do the trick.

The other speakers are not really up to the Denon level, but with an active sub, can be used with no problems.

Let us know how you get on.

[Steviesam]

Thank you so much for the detailed and long response, it really is appreciated.

I will get looking for a new sub, is it better to get a Denon, or would you recommend anything else?

Thank you again.

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

Thank you so much for the detailed and long response, it really is appreciated.

I will get looking for a new sub, is it better to get a Denon, or would you recommend anything else?

Thank you again.

You’re welcome

When looking for a sub, you should be looking for brands that make good speakers.
There will be subs in their ranges to suit.


Denon make good electronics, but not speakers so much.

REL Acoustics are a subwoofer specialist, who have been making good models for decades.
There are always loads for sale on eBay and are pretty reliable.
Target a T-Zero for under £200.
Bowers and Wilkins ASW608 are also brilliant, so see if you can get one of those.

Otherwise, go to Richer sounds. They’ll have a choice of new subs for under £200.
Although they’ll be less good, they will have a warranty etc.

Please do run any potential options by this tread though, before you take the plunge.

[Steviesam]

Hi again,

I have wired it up as you suggested, and its much much better-thank you!

I saw this on e bay, but dont know if its any good?

Seems to have lots of connections-the AVR only has one for the SW?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mission-Denon-SC-AVF100...

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

Hi again,

I have wired it up as you suggested, and its much much better-thank you!

I saw this on e bay, but dont know if its any good?

Seems to have lots of connections-the AVR only has one for the SW?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mission-Denon-SC-AVF100...

Nice one

No, that’s part of a sub/sat system, that is very old school and not proper 5.1.
It has filters pre-set for the 5 speakers that were originally part of the system!

If you want a good active sub for not a lot, then look at this B&W item.
Some security from a dealer (I don’t know them)

Although I’m spoilt, I do remember those being more than acceptable. They were designed in conjunction with the VM1 surround speaker.

As a package, it was WAY better than the well known KEF egg systems. (Do not look at KEF Cube Subs, as they have a huge failure rate)

The AS1 also has high level connections on it too, but that was so it could be used with just 2 x VM1 from a Hi-Fi amp. You will ignore these for AV use.
You’ll be pre-out on Denon, to LFE in on the Sub, via a single very well screened rca cable.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-Bowers-Wilkins-AS1-...

What do you think?

Edited by Red 5 on Friday 17th May 22:06

[Steviesam]

Ooooh yes. I will take a proper look in the morning!

Thanks, yet again!

[Steviesam]

Duly purchased

Is a normal RCA lead OK for this?

Thanks

Edited by Steviesam on Saturday 18th May 14:54

[Red 5]

Steviesam said:

Duly purchased

Is a normal RCA lead OK for this?

Thanks

Edited by Steviesam on Saturday 18th May 14:54

Well done

Any good quality one will work fine.

[Steviesam]

Typically, Parcelforce have lost the subwoofer while in transit!

Seller has refunded so no issue there, but frustrated that I cant sort the system this weekend.

Now on the look out for another.

[Red 5]

Farkernell

I think they were listing two for sale though. Is the item still up?

It might yet turn up somewhere, so you might get a call to see if you still want it.
That’s a real shame!