Discussion
Annoyingly i went to see a client who had a £60000 pair of atc speakers and though i laughed at the idea of anyone spending that kind of money on audio i now find myself in a situation of spending a considerable amount of money on a system after listening to it.
Does any one on here have experience on pricing as i feel there must be a massive margin in audio for the dealer???
This is what ive been recommended with a pair of new PMC 26i speakers ( which sounded amazing )
Naim NAC282 Pre-amplifier
Naim NAP250DR Power amplifier
Naim NDX2
The price i have been quoted is just under £21000.
My mate is currently taking the piss out of me for even considering it . Thoughts ??
Does any one on here have experience on pricing as i feel there must be a massive margin in audio for the dealer???
This is what ive been recommended with a pair of new PMC 26i speakers ( which sounded amazing )
Naim NAC282 Pre-amplifier
Naim NAP250DR Power amplifier
Naim NDX2
The price i have been quoted is just under £21000.
My mate is currently taking the piss out of me for even considering it . Thoughts ??
I’ve had Naim since the mid-90s. My preference for presentation is changing now, but I still love the sound. (Modern Naim has a very different presentation to mine).
However... a good friend who at o e point had about £250k of Naim and Linn in his living room Had recently reduced his box count. He now has a huge Accuphase integrated amp into his old Naim DBL speakers. Still sounds amazing! And there’s a lot less cabling to hide, less cabling to look at and think about spending even more money on.
My advice? Make good friends with your nearest dealer, Naim or otherwise, and talk about your wants. Then get them to arrange home trials.
How big is the listening room?
Edit to add: with the above mentioned system, you’ll need at least a HiCap power supply for the 282 pre amp, as the 250 power amp doesn’t provide the necessary pre power supply.
However... a good friend who at o e point had about £250k of Naim and Linn in his living room Had recently reduced his box count. He now has a huge Accuphase integrated amp into his old Naim DBL speakers. Still sounds amazing! And there’s a lot less cabling to hide, less cabling to look at and think about spending even more money on.
My advice? Make good friends with your nearest dealer, Naim or otherwise, and talk about your wants. Then get them to arrange home trials.
How big is the listening room?
Edit to add: with the above mentioned system, you’ll need at least a HiCap power supply for the 282 pre amp, as the 250 power amp doesn’t provide the necessary pre power supply.
Edited by Tony1963 on Sunday 9th August 12:09
If you have the spare funds, love the sound and are going to get years of enjoyment from it then does it really matter what your friends think of it?
Have you heard that system or is it just a suggested option? With that sort of investment most Naim dealers will offer, at the least, a good few hours in a listening room with your choice of tunes. Some of the better dealers will install it at your home on a trial basis - there really is no substitute to listening in your room.
All the items you’ve listed come up now and again as shop ‘demo’s’ with significant savings. Most will have the balance of warranty too.
I’m not sure Naim are too keen on discounting from their dealers for obvious reasons but there may be some wriggle room if sourcing new from the same dealer.
Be careful with Naim though - the thought of upgrading power supplies soon rears its head. Or avoid Naim based fora if you’re happy with the sound.
The only Naim I own is the previous NDX streamer. Added a TeddyPardo PSU and it’s excellent.
Good luck.
I can link to a few Naim dealers that seem to have loads of ex-demo stock for sale if you like bit the ND555 and NDX2 are a little thin on the ground.
Have you heard that system or is it just a suggested option? With that sort of investment most Naim dealers will offer, at the least, a good few hours in a listening room with your choice of tunes. Some of the better dealers will install it at your home on a trial basis - there really is no substitute to listening in your room.
All the items you’ve listed come up now and again as shop ‘demo’s’ with significant savings. Most will have the balance of warranty too.
I’m not sure Naim are too keen on discounting from their dealers for obvious reasons but there may be some wriggle room if sourcing new from the same dealer.
Be careful with Naim though - the thought of upgrading power supplies soon rears its head. Or avoid Naim based fora if you’re happy with the sound.
The only Naim I own is the previous NDX streamer. Added a TeddyPardo PSU and it’s excellent.
Good luck.
I can link to a few Naim dealers that seem to have loads of ex-demo stock for sale if you like bit the ND555 and NDX2 are a little thin on the ground.
Totally in agreement with Tony1963 and Legzr1 regarding listening at home before buying.
The big £60K ATCs may have been custom built because even their big 300 tower flagships are less than £40K; if you enjoyed their sound, it should be possible to achieve a very similar sound and for well under the £21K you mentioned.
I'm pretty sure that many of the ATC range use the same mid and HF units ( or derivatives ) as the big flagship 300s. The big models have bigger or multiple bass drivers mounted in necessarily larger cabinets to a) extend LF output and b) Play at higher max SPLs. A pair of SCM50A towers is approx £15000 depending upon veneer spec.
Regarding listening I'd try and hear the following..........at the dealer first and at home if possible. Their looks may possibly be a little too pro for a domestic setting but active monitor's performance invariably better passive setups pound for pound. The following 3 options each have a comprehensive eq facilities which can be used to tailor the sound to your room, your room furnishing, your preferences, proximity to room boundaries etc etc.
https://www.focal.com/en/pro-audio/monitoring-spea...
https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/s5v/
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh420
The big £60K ATCs may have been custom built because even their big 300 tower flagships are less than £40K; if you enjoyed their sound, it should be possible to achieve a very similar sound and for well under the £21K you mentioned.
I'm pretty sure that many of the ATC range use the same mid and HF units ( or derivatives ) as the big flagship 300s. The big models have bigger or multiple bass drivers mounted in necessarily larger cabinets to a) extend LF output and b) Play at higher max SPLs. A pair of SCM50A towers is approx £15000 depending upon veneer spec.
Regarding listening I'd try and hear the following..........at the dealer first and at home if possible. Their looks may possibly be a little too pro for a domestic setting but active monitor's performance invariably better passive setups pound for pound. The following 3 options each have a comprehensive eq facilities which can be used to tailor the sound to your room, your room furnishing, your preferences, proximity to room boundaries etc etc.
https://www.focal.com/en/pro-audio/monitoring-spea...
https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/s5v/
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh420
OP - all the chaps who've posted here are ones I'd take advice from (and have actually done so!).
On a side note I'd also really recommend looking at buying used rather than new - you'll get a lot more bang for your buck. Back end of last year I bought some Celestion A3 speakers having owned A2s for the better part of 20 years and always wanting to scratch that itch. I picked up a pair for £900 in excellent condition; new they'd have been around £2.5k I believe. I bought an XTZ Class A100 D3 used for £500 (RRP €700ish) and an Audiolab M-DAC for £250 (RRP £700). The sound for the money is superb (although I keep thinking about upgrading the amp already!). If you don't like something in your own system/home, sell it on at probably no loss...
I also ran Naim for many years - initially a CDi then CDX with a NAC102, HiCap2, NAP250 and NAPSC but wouldn't go back to it now; as Tony says, the presentation of modern Naim is very different to the earlier stuff. I've also moved away from the 'more-boxes = better-sound' and view things on their own merits. Tech has improved enormously over the years regarding interference etc and there's so much bulls
t in hi-fi it's unreal.
Two things I'd suggest - get the room right, even a good system can sound bad if it's in a non-optimal environment. Secondly buy with your ears and stop when you can't genuinely hear any improvement.
On a side note I'd also really recommend looking at buying used rather than new - you'll get a lot more bang for your buck. Back end of last year I bought some Celestion A3 speakers having owned A2s for the better part of 20 years and always wanting to scratch that itch. I picked up a pair for £900 in excellent condition; new they'd have been around £2.5k I believe. I bought an XTZ Class A100 D3 used for £500 (RRP €700ish) and an Audiolab M-DAC for £250 (RRP £700). The sound for the money is superb (although I keep thinking about upgrading the amp already!). If you don't like something in your own system/home, sell it on at probably no loss...
I also ran Naim for many years - initially a CDi then CDX with a NAC102, HiCap2, NAP250 and NAPSC but wouldn't go back to it now; as Tony says, the presentation of modern Naim is very different to the earlier stuff. I've also moved away from the 'more-boxes = better-sound' and view things on their own merits. Tech has improved enormously over the years regarding interference etc and there's so much bulls
t in hi-fi it's unreal.Two things I'd suggest - get the room right, even a good system can sound bad if it's in a non-optimal environment. Secondly buy with your ears and stop when you can't genuinely hear any improvement.
Edited by Funk on Sunday 9th August 14:04
Tricky one as I’m putting it in a room that we are extending and will have glass bifold doors along one side and on the rear of the room so basically two walls of glass.
I’ve demoed the system in their shop and it was lovely but it’s the first system I’ve ever really listened to. I’m just going on the basis it’s supposedly two really good brands.
I’ve been offered what looks on paper a really good deal on Kef 3 reference speakers and they have recommended a music fidelity m6 500 amp with a Innuos zen streamer . It’s considerably less but dealer is way too far for me to try though they would come down and install.
That system is just under £13000.
I suppose the answer is simply I need to get them in to my house to try which I don’t mind paying for .
I’ve demoed the system in their shop and it was lovely but it’s the first system I’ve ever really listened to. I’m just going on the basis it’s supposedly two really good brands.
I’ve been offered what looks on paper a really good deal on Kef 3 reference speakers and they have recommended a music fidelity m6 500 amp with a Innuos zen streamer . It’s considerably less but dealer is way too far for me to try though they would come down and install.
That system is just under £13000.
I suppose the answer is simply I need to get them in to my house to try which I don’t mind paying for .
Chipper said:
Tricky one as I’m putting it in a room that we are extending and will have glass bifold doors along one side and on the rear of the room so basically two walls of glass.
Well, erm, good luck. Two walls of glass will be a challenge for the shop to overcome. How big will the room be?Tony1963 said:
Chipper said:
Tricky one as I’m putting it in a room that we are extending and will have glass bifold doors along one side and on the rear of the room so basically two walls of glass.
Well, erm, good luck. Two walls of glass will be a challenge for the shop to overcome. How big will the room be?
Chipper said:
22 by 13
Ok. Decent space for large speakers then. But... I’ve PMC Twenty.23 speakers in a 20x13. I demoed .24s, but they were too big for the room, physically and sound-wise. So just demo properly whatever turns up, and make sure it blows you away immediately. Don’t accept the old excuses of it’ll need a month to run in. Demo gear should be ready to go within an hour of being switched on.
Chipper said:
Annoyingly i went to see a client who had a £60000 pair of atc speakers and though i laughed at the idea of anyone spending that kind of money on audio i now find myself in a situation of spending a considerable amount of money on a system after listening to it.
Does any one on here have experience on pricing as i feel there must be a massive margin in audio for the dealer???
This is what ive been recommended with a pair of new PMC 26i speakers ( which sounded amazing )
Naim NAC282 Pre-amplifier
Naim NAP250DR Power amplifier
Naim NDX2
The price i have been quoted is just under £21000.
My mate is currently taking the piss out of me for even considering it . Thoughts ??
Personally i wouldnt do that..ive tried all the Naim stuff over the years plus loads of other brands..go and listen to Vitus first before you do anything ..imo totally different levelDoes any one on here have experience on pricing as i feel there must be a massive margin in audio for the dealer???
This is what ive been recommended with a pair of new PMC 26i speakers ( which sounded amazing )
Naim NAC282 Pre-amplifier
Naim NAP250DR Power amplifier
Naim NDX2
The price i have been quoted is just under £21000.
My mate is currently taking the piss out of me for even considering it . Thoughts ??
Tony1963 said:
Tastes vary. And Vitus dealers are thin on the ground in the U.K.
That is true but the dealers that do Vitus will all let you borrow gear for home use..ive spent years and untold cash trying to get a system that sounds right ..imo the Vitus just sounds right..so worth a free trial... hyphen said:
Do you mean Moon Audio?
If so, that is two words.
Do Vitus and Moon have the same Naim sound signature? As if not, no point comparing.
No moon doesnt..and Vitus sounds nothing like Naim..as i said previously ive tried loads of amps..Naim,Audio research,ATC,Boulder,Pass etc..none get close to the Vitus pound for pound...If so, that is two words.
Do Vitus and Moon have the same Naim sound signature? As if not, no point comparing.
kayc said:
o moon doesnt..and Vitus sounds nothing like Naim..as i said previously ive tried loads of amps..Naim,Audio research,ATC,Boulder,Pass etc..none get close to the Vitus pound for pound...
Surely "pound for pound" doesn't come into the equation if a particular sound isn't to your liking? Also, amps usually have way less effect on the sound than the speaker/room interaction.Unless I misread Chipper's original post, he's contemplating a new system as a consequence of hearing £60k worth of ATC gear.
The smaller speakers in ATC's ranges have a very similar house sound to their flagships.........Chipper is likely to find that other ATC's also appeal. They'll certainly be a good benchmark.
Rather than advocate a certain brand or system I think the PH legwork should be done trying to help find Chipper a high class dealer who will assist with the home demos.
Where are you based in the UK Chipper.?
How far would you be happy to travel?
The smaller speakers in ATC's ranges have a very similar house sound to their flagships.........Chipper is likely to find that other ATC's also appeal. They'll certainly be a good benchmark.
Rather than advocate a certain brand or system I think the PH legwork should be done trying to help find Chipper a high class dealer who will assist with the home demos.
Where are you based in the UK Chipper.?
How far would you be happy to travel?
Edited by Crackie on Thursday 13th August 22:02
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