No Time To Die ** WARNING spoilers**
Discussion
Taking this away from the Bond thread to discuss the movie with spoilers, without having to cover everything in spoiler tags.
First thing I need to get off my chest about it. The opening credits the coloured circles (Dr No), the island liar (Dr no), the Hazmat suits (Dr No), someone calls Sefin Dr. But ...... he's not Dr No. What happened there?
It's like they teed up the entire thing and then chickened out at the last minute.
First thing I need to get off my chest about it. The opening credits the coloured circles (Dr No), the island liar (Dr no), the Hazmat suits (Dr No), someone calls Sefin Dr. But ...... he's not Dr No. What happened there?
It's like they teed up the entire thing and then chickened out at the last minute.
I kind of got the baddies plan, but I do think he was an awful bad-guy, very flat. The Bond girl at the party was awesome was hoping to see more of her later in the film! For obvious reasons, plus she was a great character.
What I didn’t get was why Safin wanted Madeline? Because he saved her when she was a kid?
And I didn’t have a clue what all those light beam things in the missile silo were for?!
I enjoyed the silliness with the glass eyes and all, lots of good bond moments.
Really enjoyed the film, felt like a tribute to DC at times. Loved all the car/bike bits. The vantage was lovely not sure why he took it Norway though haha
What I didn’t get was why Safin wanted Madeline? Because he saved her when she was a kid?
And I didn’t have a clue what all those light beam things in the missile silo were for?!
I enjoyed the silliness with the glass eyes and all, lots of good bond moments.
Really enjoyed the film, felt like a tribute to DC at times. Loved all the car/bike bits. The vantage was lovely not sure why he took it Norway though haha
Enjoyed it. It didn’t feel like a Bond film. Personally I’d have preferred more Blofeld as opposed to a new villain.
If the watch gives out an electromagnetic pulse why does his ear receiver/mic not pack up?
I liked the nod to old films, the 85 Aston, new 007’s suit riffing on Roger Moore’s live and let die safari suit, and the use of older music.
Clearly there was no intention to link these films together till Spectre, which I’m ok with. The ending here, whilst bold, was a misstep for me. I suspect no one wants to see an ending like that in a film like this. I wonder if the film makers will regret it.
If the watch gives out an electromagnetic pulse why does his ear receiver/mic not pack up?
I liked the nod to old films, the 85 Aston, new 007’s suit riffing on Roger Moore’s live and let die safari suit, and the use of older music.
Clearly there was no intention to link these films together till Spectre, which I’m ok with. The ending here, whilst bold, was a misstep for me. I suspect no one wants to see an ending like that in a film like this. I wonder if the film makers will regret it.
With regards to the ending, in some ways it makes perfect sense when changing an actor. James Bond/007 are cover names, and its a new guy so now he's Bond. They kinda ruined that giving the lady 007 though.
But I didn't like. My daughter who isn't isn't Bond fan at all was incredulous that they killed him.
But I didn't like. My daughter who isn't isn't Bond fan at all was incredulous that they killed him.
Just home from a packed screening. Lots of things to like, a couple of points that weren’t so clear.
Need to watch Spectre again as sort of forgotten who Madeleine‘a father actually was.
Why in the missile silo nanobot factory were there folk in hazmat suits standing mixing the liquid with the strip lights in it? Is that how you make nanobots?
Where does it all go from here? End credits display the usual “James Bond Will Return”.
Need to watch Spectre again as sort of forgotten who Madeleine‘a father actually was.
Why in the missile silo nanobot factory were there folk in hazmat suits standing mixing the liquid with the strip lights in it? Is that how you make nanobots?
Where does it all go from here? End credits display the usual “James Bond Will Return”.
Sebring440 said:
Scabutz said:
James Bond/007 are cover names,
In what way is "James Bond" a cover name?The king is dead, long live the King.
The cover name theory is fan propagated but makes a kind of sense in the, now, Bond universe they are building. Now they have done the previously unthinkable and killed the star off, they can do one of two things.
Either jettison the current supporting cast and reboot everything, or, more likely- give another agent the name James Bond because is IS a cover name, and continue the stories as before.
Writing more formulaic Bond plots featuring guns, gadgets and girls with a backdrop of exotic locations and secret island bases is likely a “Herculean” task for writers without a film ending up looking like Austin Powers.
If the audiences moving forward know that the lead character can actually be killed off, maybe it creates higher stakes?
And in 15 years time they can show us the film they really want to featuring his then grown up daughter.
Either jettison the current supporting cast and reboot everything, or, more likely- give another agent the name James Bond because is IS a cover name, and continue the stories as before.
Writing more formulaic Bond plots featuring guns, gadgets and girls with a backdrop of exotic locations and secret island bases is likely a “Herculean” task for writers without a film ending up looking like Austin Powers.
If the audiences moving forward know that the lead character can actually be killed off, maybe it creates higher stakes?
And in 15 years time they can show us the film they really want to featuring his then grown up daughter.
David87 said:
Just home from a packed screening. Lots of things to like, a couple of points that weren’t so clear.
Need to watch Spectre again as sort of forgotten who Madeleine‘a father actually was.
Why in the missile silo nanobot factory were there folk in hazmat suits standing mixing the liquid with the strip lights in it? Is that how you make nanobots?
Where does it all go from here? End credits display the usual “James Bond Will Return”.
My feeling on the nanobots, designed without an off switch for some reason, is that they were initially intended to just be a biological weapon. Along comes global pandemic and perhaps they decided to rebrand the weapon as technological to be a little sensitive to the situation.Need to watch Spectre again as sort of forgotten who Madeleine‘a father actually was.
Why in the missile silo nanobot factory were there folk in hazmat suits standing mixing the liquid with the strip lights in it? Is that how you make nanobots?
Where does it all go from here? End credits display the usual “James Bond Will Return”.
Otherwise, surely the EMP watch could have disabled them?
Scabutz said:
What I mean is the actor changes and its never dealt with, its just the same character played by a different chap. By killing the current James Bond, the next guy assumes the role of James Bond and the actor switch is dealt with. So we still have James Bond. Just a different one.
The king is dead, long live the King.
I've never once thought of it like thatThe king is dead, long live the King.
James Bond is the character; 007 is his code
If you kill JB off - the next one could be Joe Bloggs as 007
David87 said:
Need to watch Spectre again as sort of forgotten who Madeleine‘s father actually was.
He was Mr. White, the chief enforcer for Spectre and also the head of its spin-off organisation Quantum. He was in Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace and Spectre.Anyhoo, lifelong Bond fanboy here. I loved the callbacks (Delectados, the former Ms portrait gallery…..) but really not sure how I feel about the ending.
Way back when Bond 25 was in its infancy and Danny Boyle did a story outline but then left the project it was rumoured that the reason he parted company with the production was because he wanted to kill the character of Bond off and this wasn’t popular with EON.
Cracking bluff!
Evercross said:
He was Mr. White, the chief enforcer for Spectre and also the head of its spin-off organisation Quantum. He was in Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace and Spectre.
Anyhoo, lifelong Bond fanboy here. I loved the callbacks (Delectados, the former Ms portrait gallery…..) but really not sure how I feel about the ending.
Way back when Bond 25 was in its infancy and Danny Boyle did a story outline but then left the project it was rumoured that the reason he parted company with the production was because he wanted to kill the character of Bond off and this wasn’t popular with EON.
Cracking bluff!
Glad you spotted the delectados as well. Thought I was a proper sad geek for noticing thatAnyhoo, lifelong Bond fanboy here. I loved the callbacks (Delectados, the former Ms portrait gallery…..) but really not sure how I feel about the ending.
Way back when Bond 25 was in its infancy and Danny Boyle did a story outline but then left the project it was rumoured that the reason he parted company with the production was because he wanted to kill the character of Bond off and this wasn’t popular with EON.
Cracking bluff!
So, people are trying to see Doctor No in this, but the story is more a loose remake of On Her Majesty's Secret Service with a bit of the literary version of You Only Live Twice thrown in (the Garden of Death).
Having slept on it (and falling asleep not sure how I felt) I've woken up to the conclusion that while I enjoyed the acting (Ana de Armas was particularly brilliant, and funny), the riffs on Bond-lore, and the story that was true old-school Bond against megalomaniac villain, I am feeling a bit hollow and disappointed by the ending and that a character I have become so heavily invested in in my life has been mega dumped-on.
It was a very blatant effort to trump (and rip-off) the previous emotional high-point of the franchise (also blatantly telegraphed in the pre-title sequence), and I am not ashamed to admit the ending had this 52-year-old blubbing like a baby, but my emotions (as I sat in my big, comforting recliner chair in the cinema) and thoughts were 'this is not what I wanted to see right now', for a whole pile of reasons. If this was Craig's choice because he wanted to absolutely underline the point that he wasn't making another one then I think he just dumped on his legacy - I feel there is no point rewatching any of his movies any more, but worse than that it has spoiled for me that other emotional high (from my favourite film in the series - I even have a framed mini-poster for it hanging on the wall of my home-office where I am sitting typing this), when George Lazenby plunged briefly into despair while cradling 'his murdered wife' Diana Rigg. That served a purpose to let the character carry on, which is the exact opposite of what the ending of No Time to Die did, and makes the 'James Bond will Return' caption at the end of NTTD appear utterly ridiculous.
In terms of the James Bond cannon I think this film was a bigger misstep than Die Another Day (and I don't mean the rubbish CGI) because that film too led the character up a dead-end story-wise and crapped on much of the movie franchise's legacy (which is why the following partial reboot was necessary).
PS. The film was absolutely loaded with callbacks to previous movies, too many to remember after the first watch, but one that came back to me was Bond pushing the Land Rover to drop on Logan Ash - definitely a take on when Roger Moore kicks Locke's perilously hanging Mercedes over the side of a cliff in For Your Eyes Only.
Having slept on it (and falling asleep not sure how I felt) I've woken up to the conclusion that while I enjoyed the acting (Ana de Armas was particularly brilliant, and funny), the riffs on Bond-lore, and the story that was true old-school Bond against megalomaniac villain, I am feeling a bit hollow and disappointed by the ending and that a character I have become so heavily invested in in my life has been mega dumped-on.
It was a very blatant effort to trump (and rip-off) the previous emotional high-point of the franchise (also blatantly telegraphed in the pre-title sequence), and I am not ashamed to admit the ending had this 52-year-old blubbing like a baby, but my emotions (as I sat in my big, comforting recliner chair in the cinema) and thoughts were 'this is not what I wanted to see right now', for a whole pile of reasons. If this was Craig's choice because he wanted to absolutely underline the point that he wasn't making another one then I think he just dumped on his legacy - I feel there is no point rewatching any of his movies any more, but worse than that it has spoiled for me that other emotional high (from my favourite film in the series - I even have a framed mini-poster for it hanging on the wall of my home-office where I am sitting typing this), when George Lazenby plunged briefly into despair while cradling 'his murdered wife' Diana Rigg. That served a purpose to let the character carry on, which is the exact opposite of what the ending of No Time to Die did, and makes the 'James Bond will Return' caption at the end of NTTD appear utterly ridiculous.
In terms of the James Bond cannon I think this film was a bigger misstep than Die Another Day (and I don't mean the rubbish CGI) because that film too led the character up a dead-end story-wise and crapped on much of the movie franchise's legacy (which is why the following partial reboot was necessary).
PS. The film was absolutely loaded with callbacks to previous movies, too many to remember after the first watch, but one that came back to me was Bond pushing the Land Rover to drop on Logan Ash - definitely a take on when Roger Moore kicks Locke's perilously hanging Mercedes over the side of a cliff in For Your Eyes Only.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 1st October 07:31
No crying here, the film was in such a rush to cram things in that there wasn’t time to be carried to a deeply felt emotional response to anything.
Take Felix dying - to honour that character properly they should have battling genuine odds together for a good chunk of the film first, instead its like “oh hi Felix…oh s
t…he’s dead”
Take Felix dying - to honour that character properly they should have battling genuine odds together for a good chunk of the film first, instead its like “oh hi Felix…oh s
t…he’s dead”giveitfish said:
No crying here, the film was in such a rush to cram things in that there wasn’t time to be carried to a deeply felt emotional response to anything.
Take Felix dying - to honour that character properly they should have battling genuine odds together for a good chunk of the film first, instead its like “oh hi Felix…oh st…he’s dead”
It felt like a lot of a scenes were really rushed, despite it being 2:43 long.Take Felix dying - to honour that character properly they should have battling genuine odds together for a good chunk of the film first, instead its like “oh hi Felix…oh s
t…he’s dead”Evercross said:
So, people are trying to see Doctor No in this, but the story is more a loose remake of On Her Majesty's Secret Service with a bit of the literary version of You Only Live Twice thrown in (the Garden of Death).
I certainly wasn’t trying to see Dr No, but it was impossible not to so. From the opening credits, and the location in Jamaica, all the way to Rami Malek’s clothing, the only surprise was they didn’t use the character name. There were certainly elements of the other films, with OHMSS being the most obvious.
When Bond’s first line of the film is “We have all the time in the world”, it was priming us for the ending. I didn’t think they’d kill Madeline Swann, because the Craig era Bond was shaped by the death of the woman he loved, so that wouldn’t have had the necessary impact. Then they introduced his daughter, and for a while I thought they might kill them both.
However, shortly after Bond’s arrival on the island, I think it was obvious what they were planning. This was the first time they portrayed Craig’s Bond as an unstoppable force, with bullets seemingly unable to hit him, even fired at close range. I was watching it thinking “they’ve elevated him to a superman, just so they can kill him”.
I can’t say I’m sorry they ended it like that. It seems appropriate to the story arc of the Craig era.
How do they come back from this? I don’t know. Presumably some sort of re-boot. Fortunately, we have years to speculate.
As long as they remember that James Bond is a single character played by different actors across many decades, not a code name given to the latest agent in the role.Gassing Station | TV, Film, Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff