Tour de France - unchained

[silverthorn2151]

Couldn't find another thread on this new show on Netflix.

It's made by the Drive to survive chappies (I believe). Its following different teams through the 2022 Tour. Fascinating insight into the roles and duties of team riders.

3 episodes in and really enjoying it. As someone who watches coverage of it from my sofa I'm looking forward to this years event and will have a deeper understanding of it.

[airsafari87]

We watched it all over the past weekend.

A decent watch but not as engaging as some of the other series of this type. The voiceovers were terrible though.

It did remind of how decent a Tour it was last year though.

[silverthorn2151]

airsafari87 said:

We watched it all over the past weekend.

A decent watch but not as engaging as some of the other series of this type. The voiceovers were terrible though.

It did remind of how decent a Tour it was last year though.

Fair points and I guess I'm hoping it moves on from the team per episode content.

Still enjoying it though and it reinforces what a beautiful place France is and makes me reminisce about holidays past!

[12TS]

I watched the first episode and I'm not sure I'd want to watch any more. There were some interesting bits, but it goes on too long.

At any point during the series do they look at the bikes, the mechanics and the logistics of how teams run? I'm guessing they don't.

[Wills2]

I thought it was very good showed how tough the race is, The Program for those that haven't seen it is coming up on Netflix soon as well.

I checked the average speed of the 2022 TdF and it was interesting to note they are going faster than they did in Armstrong's days when all the top teams/riders were doping, you'd think they would at least try to make it look like it's clean these days.

[NaePasaran]

Not a cycling fanatic by any means, will casually tune into the tour or giro if channel hopping. But done the first 2 episodes last night and very much enjoyed it. Great insight to pro cycling.

[ben5575]

Two in and it's ok.

I'm not in to cycling and I'm struggling to understand what is going on.

Guy wins stage 1

Same guy is about to win stage 2, but instead drops back and they all lose. But that's good for the rider who hasn't won yet. But might win by the end? And it's an individual winner overall not a team.

What's that all about then?

[airsafari87]

12TS said:

I watched the first episode and I'm not sure I'd want to watch any more. There were some interesting bits, but it goes on too long.

At any point during the series do they look at the bikes, the mechanics and the logistics of how teams run? I'm guessing they don't.

They don’t.

The overall feeling I got from the series was that it’s more of a review of last years tour, with a bit of behind the scene action from the team managers, and plenty of scenes of the riders getting massages in their hotel rooms.

[12TS]

Thanks - so pretty much like DTS then

[lauda]

Wills2 said:

I thought it was very good showed how tough the race is, The Program for those that haven't seen it is coming up on Netflix soon as well.

I checked the average speed of the 2022 TdF and it was interesting to note they are going faster than they did in Armstrong's days when all the top teams/riders were doping, you'd think they would at least try to make it look like it's clean these days.

The advances in bike/clothing aerodynamics, training and nutrition in the last 20 years can all reasonably account for the increases in speed.

No one truly knows if the sport is 100% clean but the chances of there being widespread, systemic doping like there was in Armstrong’s era is pretty remote.

[gifdy]

I thought it was great & provided a lot of the background to the Tour. Watching the other teams management react to Pidcock's descent & the storyline of Wout Van Aert were especially good : Starting with him being a lone wolf only out to win stages for himself, being slightly snubbed by team, then deciding to support the Yellow jersey and killing himself to pull his leader up the hill then redemption by being given the stage win in the time trial. Great stuff

[Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area]

ben5575 said:

Two in and it's ok.

I'm not in to cycling and I'm struggling to understand what is going on.

Guy wins stage 1

Same guy is about to win stage 2, but instead drops back and they all lose. But that's good for the rider who hasn't won yet. But might win by the end? And it's an individual winner overall not a team.

What's that all about then?

The overall winner after three weeks is the rider who completes the route in the shortest time. As the most time can be won and lost in the mountains where time differences between first and last on each stage are enormous, what happens during the majority of the early stages rarely has much bearing on the final result. This excludes time trials however where decent gains can be made.

All this means that a top sprinter could win multiple stages and still finish towards the back of the overall standings in Paris as he’d lose literally hours and hours across the mountain days.

Different riders and teams have different objectives: a handful of them are looking to win the yellow jersey, whereas most would be happy with a single stage win or a top 10 overall.

[ben5575]

Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area said:

The overall winner after three weeks is the rider who completes the route in the shortest time. As the most time can be won and lost in the mountains where time differences between first and last on each stage are enormous, what happens during the majority of the early stages rarely has much bearing on the final result. This excludes time trials however where decent gains can be made.

All this means that a top sprinter could win multiple stages and still finish towards the back of the overall standings in Paris as he’d lose literally hours and hours across the mountain days.

Different riders and teams have different objectives: a handful of them are looking to win the yellow jersey, whereas most would be happy with a single stage win or a top 10 overall.

How does intentionally slowing down the sprint rider who's going to lose time in the mountains, help the guy who's going to gain time in the mountains and looking win overall? Why not just let the sprinter win his stage?

I'm sure it's really obvious, but I'm having a logic fail here.

[lauda]

ben5575 said:

How does intentionally slowing down the sprint rider who's going to lose time in the mountains, help the guy who's going to gain time in the mountains and looking win overall? Why not just let the sprinter win his stage?

I'm sure it's really obvious, but I'm having a logic fail here.

Stage 2 was a stage for the sprinters, which means there’s no point expending energy riding in the breakaway when the race is always going to come back together before the finish.

Better to drop back to the peloton, have greater numbers supporting your team’s GC contender and still let WvA contest the sprint. Which he nearly won.

[Gweeds]

ben5575 said:

How does intentionally slowing down the sprint rider who's going to lose time in the mountains, help the guy who's going to gain time in the mountains and looking win overall? Why not just let the sprinter win his stage?

I'm sure it's really obvious, but I'm having a logic fail here.

It’s not the case that they’re intentionally slowing down the sprinter. They don’t need to as as soon as they hit any serious climbs they’ll be out the back and forming an autobus anyway (a group that rides to finish within the time limit for that stage and conserve energy). Think of it as Bolt trying to stay with Farah during a marathon. Farah doesn’t need to slow Bolt because it’ll happen anyway.

[ben5575]

Thanks guys.

I've also just watched Le Tour de France for dummies which has helped!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-JsIYntz2I

That sprinter dropped back into the peloton to improve his key rider's time.

The introduction of best sprinter/climber jerseys adds additional specialisms/competitions to what would otherwise be a team of 'simple' Domestiques plus key rider. The specialist is ultimate responsibility is to the team and to support their key rider to the end.

I think I'm getting there

[S600BSB]

I thought it was great.

[Wills2]

lauda said:

Wills2 said:

I thought it was very good showed how tough the race is, The Program for those that haven't seen it is coming up on Netflix soon as well.

I checked the average speed of the 2022 TdF and it was interesting to note they are going faster than they did in Armstrong's days when all the top teams/riders were doping, you'd think they would at least try to make it look like it's clean these days.

The advances in bike/clothing aerodynamics, training and nutrition in the last 20 years can all reasonably account for the increases in speed.

Sure.

[lauda]

Wills2 said:

lauda said:

Wills2 said:

I thought it was very good showed how tough the race is, The Program for those that haven't seen it is coming up on Netflix soon as well.

I checked the average speed of the 2022 TdF and it was interesting to note they are going faster than they did in Armstrong's days when all the top teams/riders were doping, you'd think they would at least try to make it look like it's clean these days.

The advances in bike/clothing aerodynamics, training and nutrition in the last 20 years can all reasonably account for the increases in speed.

Sure.

So how do you explain the fact that pretty much none of the Armstrong-era records on the major climbs (where aerodynamics matter the least and EPO would have been most beneficial) still haven’t been bettered by the modern riders?

[Tagteam]

lauda said:

ben5575 said:

How does intentionally slowing down the sprint rider who's going to lose time in the mountains, help the guy who's going to gain time in the mountains and looking win overall? Why not just let the sprinter win his stage?

I'm sure it's really obvious, but I'm having a logic fail here.

Stage 2 was a stage for the sprinters, which means there’s no point expending energy riding in the breakaway when the race is always going to come back together before the finish.

Better to drop back to the peloton, have greater numbers supporting your team’s GC contender and still let WvA contest the sprint. Which he nearly won.

They went back to help the GC rider pedal faster (give him a big tow )