OpenReach fibre infrastructure / property question
Discussion
We live rurally, in a barn conversion that formed part of an old stately home estate. The barns are large, and have 10 properties within. The barns are in the middle of working farm today.
Our only internet options are starlink or 5G. We could get FttC, but the speeds are a lot worse than 5G so most people use that. It is kind of tolerable, but has lots of outages, stability issues, weather dependent etc.
I have had a long-running case with the local council to bid for extraordinary funding to build FttP to our properties, which I have successfully done.
However, I am now thinking ahead to what the install might look like, as i hear horror stories of how much of an eyesore of a build or install people get saddled with, as a direct result of the need to accelerate the fibre roll out across the country.
We currently have underground copper BT lines, where the access hatch for which seems to be on my part of the land. I am told however that OpenReach may not or will likely not use that route, and instead will follow the overhead wires route and maybe install an extra pole to carry that... due to the design of the properties in a U-shape, and the direction I know the exchange is broadly in, basically it could end up looking pretty awful if they do it the easiest way....
what are peoples' experiences, and what can people tell me about what to expect or to fight for...?
thanks
Our only internet options are starlink or 5G. We could get FttC, but the speeds are a lot worse than 5G so most people use that. It is kind of tolerable, but has lots of outages, stability issues, weather dependent etc.
I have had a long-running case with the local council to bid for extraordinary funding to build FttP to our properties, which I have successfully done.
However, I am now thinking ahead to what the install might look like, as i hear horror stories of how much of an eyesore of a build or install people get saddled with, as a direct result of the need to accelerate the fibre roll out across the country.
We currently have underground copper BT lines, where the access hatch for which seems to be on my part of the land. I am told however that OpenReach may not or will likely not use that route, and instead will follow the overhead wires route and maybe install an extra pole to carry that... due to the design of the properties in a U-shape, and the direction I know the exchange is broadly in, basically it could end up looking pretty awful if they do it the easiest way....
what are peoples' experiences, and what can people tell me about what to expect or to fight for...?
thanks
If the existing copper service is ducted rather than buried armoured cable and has sufficient duct space then that might be worth getting a blue draw rope through ready for them to pull the fibre in. I'm imagining that the exiting copper will eventually go to a joint box in the road at some point where the fibre network may already pass through. I've been retired from BT/Openreach for a couple of years now but most of the network stuff round my way is done by sub contractors that will always go for and easy option.
We just had full fibre installed, we went for the 500mb service (vodaphone) and don't get anywhere near that and it seems to vary a lot. I'd say 50-100mb average. Also, current copper was below ground but they refused to match it and ran a new cable from nearby pole. When queried he said it was standard approach and they don't even consider below ground.
Around my way, Openreach contractors are making a right mess. Putting up new poles and mounting their stuff in the sky for fibre. Boxes and all sorts of crap on the poles.
A real eyesore.
City Fibre buried theirs. A proper company.
Openreach don t seem to give a monkeys.
They should pay to use the fantastic Cith Fibre infrastructure my way.
One new pole borderline obstructs a pavement.
A month ago I raised a complaint & have a reference number via https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/object-...
No reply of course.. I will follow up.
I would go elsewhere given the choice
A real eyesore.
City Fibre buried theirs. A proper company.
Openreach don t seem to give a monkeys.
They should pay to use the fantastic Cith Fibre infrastructure my way.
One new pole borderline obstructs a pavement.
A month ago I raised a complaint & have a reference number via https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/object-...
No reply of course.. I will follow up.
I would go elsewhere given the choice
Edited by RotorRambler on Monday 13th April 16:17
My parents in rural Aberdeenshire recently had FTTP installed by openreach at no cost and it's all underground. The line running alongside the b road through open countryside is buried in the verge and the 75m or so spur to their house was also buried.
Nice tidy job. Guess it might be contractor/location dependent but seems a bit strange.
Nice tidy job. Guess it might be contractor/location dependent but seems a bit strange.
It depends to some degree on who, as a consumer, you get to provide the service.
As a consumer, you are not going to be dealing with OpenReach.
For what you have outlined, it appears that you are effectively being a 'developer' and trying to organise/provide service to a block of houses.
OR have a 'developers guide' that is really targetted at large new housing developments, but is publically available. It explains the duct requirements etc.
Everyone wants an easy life, and if there is a suitable duct I am pretty sure they will use it.
Full disclosure - this is part of what I do - some installs we just let OR get on with it, others might need site surveys and wayleaves arranging.
Like with everything, the guys they send out vary. We have had some very good ones that go the extra mile and do a brilliant job, and also a few who do a quick job and are gone.
Outwardly if there is FTTC available, it means that it is likely possible without massive infrastructure investment.
For a bulk order of ten properties, I woul have thought OR should just get on with it... if not and you have funding from the council, it is then effectively Fibre on Demand... which means you pay the install cost which can be a few thousand to get the build done.
Do you already have the FTTP build plan and availability info from OR?
If you PM me your property details I can look in the database.
As a consumer, you are not going to be dealing with OpenReach.
For what you have outlined, it appears that you are effectively being a 'developer' and trying to organise/provide service to a block of houses.
OR have a 'developers guide' that is really targetted at large new housing developments, but is publically available. It explains the duct requirements etc.
Everyone wants an easy life, and if there is a suitable duct I am pretty sure they will use it.
Full disclosure - this is part of what I do - some installs we just let OR get on with it, others might need site surveys and wayleaves arranging.
Like with everything, the guys they send out vary. We have had some very good ones that go the extra mile and do a brilliant job, and also a few who do a quick job and are gone.
Outwardly if there is FTTC available, it means that it is likely possible without massive infrastructure investment.
For a bulk order of ten properties, I woul have thought OR should just get on with it... if not and you have funding from the council, it is then effectively Fibre on Demand... which means you pay the install cost which can be a few thousand to get the build done.
Do you already have the FTTP build plan and availability info from OR?
If you PM me your property details I can look in the database.
We recently had FttP installed at home, and also at my parents' house.
Our house was visited by a contractor who immediately said they couldn't do it (unsurprisingly) and we had three visits from Openreach including a new pole on our long drive, and ended up with an installation that is very clean. Initially they wanted to install the pole on our freshly tarmacked driveway, to which I said no and directed them to land to the side. A harder job for the bloke doing it, but they reluctantly did it and I'm happy with the results. I ran the internal cables in the crawlspaces (plus fitted power up there for the ONT) to the outside and the cable goes to the tech cupboard in the middle of the house where all my infrastructure is.
My parents' install was a contractor (standard 3 bed bungalow), and they have made some right messes of local properties. We're talking black wire to side of white house, not even vertically straight down the wall to the splice, crossed over cable before then going through the wall - that's where the ONT goes internally whether you like it or not. The video they send out beforehand speaks of cutting skirting and all sorts. Absolutely f
king not in a house I just renovated with zero exposed cables!!!!
Again, I ran the internal cables to the router location in the middle of the house via the loft, and instructed the installer where to bring the cable to. He did a brilliant job. Taking care to hide the cable and run it along natural seams and then clipping with matched tie wraps to the back of the guttering downpipe to the splice and back up. It's virtually invisible.
So basically, if you want a decent job with the cable going to where you want it, get involved and don't accept no.
In a situation like yours you will be dealing with Openreach, not a contractor, and in my experience they were very good.
Our house was visited by a contractor who immediately said they couldn't do it (unsurprisingly) and we had three visits from Openreach including a new pole on our long drive, and ended up with an installation that is very clean. Initially they wanted to install the pole on our freshly tarmacked driveway, to which I said no and directed them to land to the side. A harder job for the bloke doing it, but they reluctantly did it and I'm happy with the results. I ran the internal cables in the crawlspaces (plus fitted power up there for the ONT) to the outside and the cable goes to the tech cupboard in the middle of the house where all my infrastructure is.
My parents' install was a contractor (standard 3 bed bungalow), and they have made some right messes of local properties. We're talking black wire to side of white house, not even vertically straight down the wall to the splice, crossed over cable before then going through the wall - that's where the ONT goes internally whether you like it or not. The video they send out beforehand speaks of cutting skirting and all sorts. Absolutely f
king not in a house I just renovated with zero exposed cables!!!!Again, I ran the internal cables to the router location in the middle of the house via the loft, and instructed the installer where to bring the cable to. He did a brilliant job. Taking care to hide the cable and run it along natural seams and then clipping with matched tie wraps to the back of the guttering downpipe to the splice and back up. It's virtually invisible.
So basically, if you want a decent job with the cable going to where you want it, get involved and don't accept no.
In a situation like yours you will be dealing with Openreach, not a contractor, and in my experience they were very good.
Blown2CV said:
We currently have underground copper BT lines, where the access hatch for which seems to be on my part of the land. I am told however that OpenReach may not or will likely not use that route, and instead will follow the overhead wires route and maybe install an extra pole to carry that... due to the design of the properties in a U-shape, and the direction I know the exchange is broadly in, basically it could end up looking pretty awful if they do it the easiest way....
what are peoples' experiences, and what can people tell me about what to expect or to fight for...?
thanks
I had FTTP installed about 6 years ago and they used the existing underground ducting which, like yours, was previously for a copper BT line. The end of the ducting is right by house, so it was a neat installation.what are peoples' experiences, and what can people tell me about what to expect or to fight for...?
thanks
I would have thought that if ducting exists from the cabinet to your property, they'd use that rather than install a new pole.
No ideas for a name said:
It depends to some degree on who, as a consumer, you get to provide the service.
As a consumer, you are not going to be dealing with OpenReach.
For what you have outlined, it appears that you are effectively being a 'developer' and trying to organise/provide service to a block of houses.
OR have a 'developers guide' that is really targetted at large new housing developments, but is publically available. It explains the duct requirements etc.
Everyone wants an easy life, and if there is a suitable duct I am pretty sure they will use it.
Full disclosure - this is part of what I do - some installs we just let OR get on with it, others might need site surveys and wayleaves arranging.
Like with everything, the guys they send out vary. We have had some very good ones that go the extra mile and do a brilliant job, and also a few who do a quick job and are gone.
Outwardly if there is FTTC available, it means that it is likely possible without massive infrastructure investment.
For a bulk order of ten properties, I woul have thought OR should just get on with it... if not and you have funding from the council, it is then effectively Fibre on Demand... which means you pay the install cost which can be a few thousand to get the build done.
Do you already have the FTTP build plan and availability info from OR?
If you PM me your property details I can look in the database.
I worked for one of Openreach's suppliers for a few years quite a few years ago. Disorganised doesn't even start to describe them. I wasn't involved in the planning but I saw their "training centres" and the speed they recruited and trained new engineers was almost impressive, from in the door to out in the van in no time at all.As a consumer, you are not going to be dealing with OpenReach.
For what you have outlined, it appears that you are effectively being a 'developer' and trying to organise/provide service to a block of houses.
OR have a 'developers guide' that is really targetted at large new housing developments, but is publically available. It explains the duct requirements etc.
Everyone wants an easy life, and if there is a suitable duct I am pretty sure they will use it.
Full disclosure - this is part of what I do - some installs we just let OR get on with it, others might need site surveys and wayleaves arranging.
Like with everything, the guys they send out vary. We have had some very good ones that go the extra mile and do a brilliant job, and also a few who do a quick job and are gone.
Outwardly if there is FTTC available, it means that it is likely possible without massive infrastructure investment.
For a bulk order of ten properties, I woul have thought OR should just get on with it... if not and you have funding from the council, it is then effectively Fibre on Demand... which means you pay the install cost which can be a few thousand to get the build done.
Do you already have the FTTP build plan and availability info from OR?
If you PM me your property details I can look in the database.
Funny story, one Leeds engineer left his house to drive to Liverpool as a Liverpool engineer arrived in Leeds to install fibre in his street. Leeds engineer was working one road over from where the Liverpool engineer lived.
Chaos.
NDA said:
Blown2CV said:
We currently have underground copper BT lines, where the access hatch for which seems to be on my part of the land. I am told however that OpenReach may not or will likely not use that route, and instead will follow the overhead wires route and maybe install an extra pole to carry that... due to the design of the properties in a U-shape, and the direction I know the exchange is broadly in, basically it could end up looking pretty awful if they do it the easiest way....
what are peoples' experiences, and what can people tell me about what to expect or to fight for...?
thanks
I had FTTP installed about 6 years ago and they used the existing underground ducting which, like yours, was previously for a copper BT line. The end of the ducting is right by house, so it was a neat installation.what are peoples' experiences, and what can people tell me about what to expect or to fight for...?
thanks
I would have thought that if ducting exists from the cabinet to your property, they'd use that rather than install a new pole.
Next door has ducted connection and again, they used all existing routes to connect.
During the installation there was lots of conversation and confirmation that we were happy with what they were doing.
We did FTTPod a few years ago and it was a painful process. Our only options at the time were adsl at 2mbps or 4g which was an unreliable 15mbps.
OR give an indicative price from a ‘desktop survey’. If you want to proceed, you pay for a ‘full survey’ where someone actually comes and looks at what’s really there rather than what they think might be there.
The cost for the install was then several thousands of pounds which you pay up front and then wait…
There were no timescales provided, the updates were shoddy, I had to chase the ISP (you can’t deal direct with OR) who then chase OR who say there’s no update.
I think ours took 17 months from paying the balance to go live.
I can’t think of many other public service industries which will take several thousands of pounds from you for a service with no timescale, communicated plan or decent communication. I do always scowl when I see their vans with ‘connecting you to your network’ on it!
8 weeks after I paid, starlink launched in the UK, I would have gone that route if it was available, a neighbour has it and has no problems at all.
OR give an indicative price from a ‘desktop survey’. If you want to proceed, you pay for a ‘full survey’ where someone actually comes and looks at what’s really there rather than what they think might be there.
The cost for the install was then several thousands of pounds which you pay up front and then wait…
There were no timescales provided, the updates were shoddy, I had to chase the ISP (you can’t deal direct with OR) who then chase OR who say there’s no update.
I think ours took 17 months from paying the balance to go live.
I can’t think of many other public service industries which will take several thousands of pounds from you for a service with no timescale, communicated plan or decent communication. I do always scowl when I see their vans with ‘connecting you to your network’ on it!
8 weeks after I paid, starlink launched in the UK, I would have gone that route if it was available, a neighbour has it and has no problems at all.
I live in a barn conversion, we were the first owners, new conversion and had no phone line of any sort to the property.
Moved in and went through and ordered at the time copper BB, BT came out to do the install scratched their heads and left, days later Openreach came out to do a survey, luckily for me I have a telegraph pole on the edge of my land, but they insisted that they would need to run a new copper line over a farmers field from the main road to my property.
Roll forward 3 months and still nothing, then a BT engineer again appeared who was actually really helpful, turns out on the next pole literally 50 metres away there was fibre, but for some reason I couldn't select it when you go through the post code checker, but you could see a line going to my neighbour..... lots of complaining, using telephone, email, twitter, eventually I got a direct line to someone at BT who was extremely helpful and co-ordinated my install.
Mine is obviously overhead but again I already had a telegraph pole situated in one corner of my land and the barn is literally 10 feet away from the pole so an easy install and pretty discreet.
Moved in and went through and ordered at the time copper BB, BT came out to do the install scratched their heads and left, days later Openreach came out to do a survey, luckily for me I have a telegraph pole on the edge of my land, but they insisted that they would need to run a new copper line over a farmers field from the main road to my property.
Roll forward 3 months and still nothing, then a BT engineer again appeared who was actually really helpful, turns out on the next pole literally 50 metres away there was fibre, but for some reason I couldn't select it when you go through the post code checker, but you could see a line going to my neighbour..... lots of complaining, using telephone, email, twitter, eventually I got a direct line to someone at BT who was extremely helpful and co-ordinated my install.
Mine is obviously overhead but again I already had a telegraph pole situated in one corner of my land and the barn is literally 10 feet away from the pole so an easy install and pretty discreet.
Our properties were not in scope for FttP build, despite local areas being built out for the last 2-3 years. I don't really know how much research openreach had done to survey the site, but we didn't have a choice as to which provider as it was the council who have arranged it through one of several digital initiatives funding pots that are made available centrally, locally whatever. A lot of the delay was the council ascertaining which pot was the appropriate one, which is daft given the money was invested in order to speed up the rollout.
The barns were converted in 1998. We've had the option of FttC for a while but i think the cabinet is so far away it was slower than 4G let alone 5G. I think all the BT copper currently come in to the rear of the properties, but my basic geography says the exchange is in the opposite direction, but i am sure there was logic as to their decision at the time. Perhaps they were already endeavouring to avoid the ancient cobbled area.
The barns were converted in 1998. We've had the option of FttC for a while but i think the cabinet is so far away it was slower than 4G let alone 5G. I think all the BT copper currently come in to the rear of the properties, but my basic geography says the exchange is in the opposite direction, but i am sure there was logic as to their decision at the time. Perhaps they were already endeavouring to avoid the ancient cobbled area.
Reading through your last comment, I'd suggest Starlink rather than pushing Openreach/BT.
Through my motorsport experiences we use Starlink a lot, and would highly recommend it. For example we had a mini on the roof of my car at the weekend to transmit data from a camera back to HQ so the Clerk of the Course could see what was going on. The connection remained stable through the whole event, sun, horrendous rain and a hailstorm. If it can do that then IMHO a rural residential would be rock solid.
The Starlink monthlies are a direct comparison with my fibre BB.
Through my motorsport experiences we use Starlink a lot, and would highly recommend it. For example we had a mini on the roof of my car at the weekend to transmit data from a camera back to HQ so the Clerk of the Course could see what was going on. The connection remained stable through the whole event, sun, horrendous rain and a hailstorm. If it can do that then IMHO a rural residential would be rock solid.
The Starlink monthlies are a direct comparison with my fibre BB.
Ranger 6 said:
The Starlink monthlies are a direct comparison with my fibre BB.
The cost and performance varies depending on where you are. In a higher demand area it's more expensive and slower. As for pole vs underground it seems that it depends. We had a new fibre provider turn up & put in poles for some sections (I assume for cost/speed) and ducts in others, they then came back & pulled the poles and put in ducts instead. Not sure if it was due to objections or the impracticality of actually running the catenaries from pole to pole and from poles to houses.
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