Vets and Raw feeding

[LivingTheDream]

Do vets not like raw feeding?

I have a puppy arriving in Feb and have researched raw feeding a lot. The father of the pups is raw fed as well as the other 10 dogs that he lives with (the father has several prestigious trophies to his name including Crufts junior trophies, so clearly not in bad shape).

Anyway, I popped into our local vets to talk about the pup and what we need to do and when - when raw feeding was mentioned, well, the vet seemed to magically produce the most enormous soap box and proceeded to lecture me on why that was so bad!

It's put me off them but am I missing something here?

[Jasandjules]

Well, some might suggest money.

Raw is in my view best for your pets - as long as you read up sufficiently on it (which it sounds like you are). There are also (if it helps) raw feeding groups on facebook you can join, some have guides etc and plenty of people to help you.

[rosie11]

Raw is brilliant but do read up all you can. the vets do get £ incentives from the food companies that they recommended , and if you buy the food from them all the better for their pockets.

[GokTweed]

Money isn't the reason for any self respecting vet so that view will be dismissed immediately thank you.

Raw food has it's advantages and disadvantages just like dry food does. Dry food has practicality advantages such as being easier to store and lasts longer. It is also scientifically balanced to include all the necessary vitamins, minerals and antioxidants that your pet requires whereas a raw food diet can be deficient leading to problems. Raw food also carries a parasite risk unless it is sourced responsibly but tends to be cheaper and as long as it is researched properly and the right supplements are added it can be a good diet to use. I don't think one is better than the other just different. A lot of the time it is easier for owners to measure out a set weight of dried kibble for example and know that their pet is getting all of the nutrients it requires.

[otolith]

Our vet has no objection in principle to raw feeding (indeed, he suggested we try our cats on it for their teeth) but he feels that the skeletal consequences of getting the diet wrong for puppies are too large a risk to take. His advice was to feed a good quality complete diet until the dog was grown and then revisit raw if we wanted to.

[LivingTheDream]

Ok thanks everyone.

The first thing the vet said was to dismiss the money angle. He also talked about the scientific work behind commercial foods so that stacks up with the comments above.

Maybe it's something I should look at later then once the growing is done?

[bexVN]

I recommend Lily's Kitchen for the best complete food (they do wet and dry). Look it up think you'll find it a fair compromise and guess what we get nothing from the company in return for suggesting them. Kind of blows that theory out of the water doesn't it! It is true the main ones do offer a lot of support material and will offer free food so we can try our own pets on it but there is no money paid out. These same companies also provide free food fo clinets as part of a loyalty scheme.

I do discuss raw but whilst I'm happy to advise on what they need to research it is upto the client yo source the correct plan. I do not have enough time to work out a diet plan for each dogs requirements.

I will say we have seen a few cases recently of animals not doing so well on raw Inc a vomiting dog (stopped as soon as changed to a science diet) and a kitten with fracturing and deformed bones due to feeding poor quality meat and bones. Improved quickly on a complete diet

I also see dogs/ cats that do well on raw which is the most important result for all dogs/cats at the end of the day whether fed raw or complete. I do believe Lily's kitchen offers a good compromise

Edited by bexVN on Saturday 11th January 17:36

[SGirl]

We feed our dogs Natural Instinct - it's a raw feed, but mixed with veggies and things for nutritional balance. You buy it frozen, in tubs. Our dogs love it. And one of the vets we use has started feeding it to her own dog since we told her about it.

[bexVN]

SGirl said:

We feed our dogs Natural Instinct - it's a raw feed, but mixed with veggies and things for nutritional balance. You buy it frozen, in tubs. Our dogs love it. And one of the vets we use has started feeding it to her own dog since we told her about it.

I have advised/ discussed this one aswell, seems quite expensive though. How do you find it cost wise?

[evo4a]

SGirl said:

We feed our dogs Natural Instinct - it's a raw feed, but mixed with veggies and things for nutritional balance. You buy it frozen, in tubs. Our dogs love it. And one of the vets we use has started feeding it to her own dog since we told her about it.

Same here, 2 setters on it for years.

[LivingTheDream]

I've looked at Natures menu specifically as a good way of starting raw as it's well balanced.

I'm very conscious of good quality food if I do it so it will be well sourced.

I'll look at Lily's kitchen as well so thanks for the tip Bex


Edit: just re read and realised I mixed up Natures menu with Natural instinct - both seem to be similar, frozen nuggets mixed with veg. I'll look at natural instinct as well - thanks

Edited by LivingTheDream on Saturday 11th January 21:24

[jeeperz0]

You never see deficiency conditions in dogs fed compounded feeds, only ever in animals fed homemade, including raw, diets.
In large breeds which have specific dietary requirements, particularly when young, it is important to feed a properly balanced diet such as can only be produced artificially.
wW have bred some breeds to the degree that they can no longer cope with a 'natural' diet.

[Jasandjules]

jeeperz0 said:

You never see deficiency conditions in dogs fed compounded feeds, only ever in animals fed homemade, including raw, diets.
In large breeds which have specific dietary requirements, particularly when young, it is important to feed a properly balanced diet such as can only be produced artificially.
wW have bred some breeds to the degree that they can no longer cope with a 'natural' diet.

I can tell you that it happens. And quite a lot too. Not only deficiencies but damage caused by the foods. Also allergies.

There are some dogs which appear to have difficulty coping with a raw diet. Please name the breeds you suggest cannot cope and I'll probably be able to find owners of that breed who feed raw happily

You don't tend to get raw foods recalled either. Nor dogs dying in droves as a result of some problem with the manufacturing process of raw foods. Or raw treats either.

[SGirl]

bexVN said:

SGirl said:

We feed our dogs Natural Instinct - it's a raw feed, but mixed with veggies and things for nutritional balance. You buy it frozen, in tubs. Our dogs love it. And one of the vets we use has started feeding it to her own dog since we told her about it.

I have advised/ discussed this one aswell, seems quite expensive though. How do you find it cost wise?

Sorry Bex, I've only just seen this.

Cost-wise, it's not too bad on the whole. Our GSD has a 1kg tub of it a day, our lurcher about 2/3 of a tub. The tubs are generally about £3-£3.50 each if you buy the Working Dog varieties (no VAT on those). The dogs don't need biscuits or any other supplement with their NI food, so we don't buy anything like that. Though they do get treats and things, of course.

The cost of the shipping adds a fair bit to the price if you don't live near enough to a place selling it, but even that can be overcome. We ended up buying a cheap freezer so that we could buy more than 40kg in one go, that way the shipping is free.

[Sway]

When we had our collie pup, the vet was skeptical of raw feeding - but was very interested once he'd seen the difference in her.

Much less hyper, more alert/focused, better digestive 'products'...

There's a load of good effective ways to feed anything, human or animal. It'll be clear when you find the right combination!

[Sexual Chocolate]

jeeperz0 said:

You never see deficiency conditions in dogs fed compounded feeds, only ever in animals fed homemade, including raw, diets.
In large breeds which have specific dietary requirements, particularly when young, it is important to feed a properly balanced diet such as can only be produced artificially.
wW have bred some breeds to the degree that they can no longer cope with a 'natural' diet.

Do you work for a dog food company? Anway ... factory produced dog food has caused my lab to become arthritic at an early age. Through feeding raw and cartopehn injections he has vastly improved. I will never feed another dog on mass rpoduced stuff where the ingredients are very non descript. x% meat product. What meat product? 20% rice or other filler. Really? Never knew dogs ate rice which has zero nutrional value for them.

The spaniel has been feed raw since she was 12 weeks old. She gets a bit more bone in hers than the lab and she is strong, fit and healthy (well was untill we got hit with the fall out from the local tyre fire) and her fur is in way better condition than any of her siblings which are feed on mass produced kibble. She has grown slower than her siblings but I think the slow growth means that her bones have had a proper time to develop and become stronger than those that have had massive growth spurts on mass produced food stuff.

We source our stuff from the butcher and feed things like lamb necks (with bone), lamb shoulder (with bone), chicken carcasses, stewing beef, mince, heart, liver, kidneys plus sardines or mackrel in tomato sauce (The dogs love them). Works out at about £30 - £40 per week (spaniel gets 600g or food per day as does the lab but he is on a diet).

[LivingTheDream]

Thanks for all the stories folks - the pup will be coming home with a bag of food from the breeder anyway so I'll look to transition to raw after a little while - this should allow for some of the early growth to be done.

I'm looking around local vets for an alternative to the first I spoke to so hopefully will find one I prefer.

Any advice to transitioning over to raw?

[Jasandjules]

LivingTheDream said:

Thanks for all the stories folks - the pup will be coming home with a bag of food from the breeder anyway so I'll look to transition to raw after a little while - this should allow for some of the early growth to be done.

I'm looking around local vets for an alternative to the first I spoke to so hopefully will find one I prefer.

Any advice to transitioning over to raw?

If you are on facebook there are many groups - just search for raw feeding.

They will also have potential suppliers.

[gd49]

Sexual Chocolate said:

Do you work for a dog food company? Anway ... factory produced dog food has caused my lab to become arthritic at an early age. Through feeding raw and cartopehn injections he has vastly improved.

Think you're mistaking correlation for causation there.

[LivingTheDream]

Jasandjules said:

If you are on facebook there are many groups - just search for raw feeding.

They will also have potential suppliers.

Not on Facebook but I'm sure I can find stuff out there somewhere