Smacking your dog?
Discussion
Just curious of opinions where I can stay semi-anonymous...
I tried very hard to get around smacking our dog when he was younger. I even had a book called "a compassionate guide to training your dog", among various others. Sadly I found smacking him worked more effectively than positive reinforcement or shouting for extremes of unacceptable behaviour.
In the end I reluctantly trained my dog as I saw my father trained our previous one. By measured and calculated smacks. Never through anger. Despite my initial reluctance, I am very happy with the results. You won't find a more affectionate, happy, and most importantly, well adjusted, dog.
For about 15,000 years this method was perfectly acceptable, but in the last few decades it seems people who take similar approaches have become the devil incarnate. I am told my dog is likely to be aggressive, and disobey me when I'm not there because he lives in fear. By contrast I have never seen evidence of this in either of my dogs.
Don't get me wrong I think the most effective training is to befriend a dog and have him want to please you, rather than do things through fear of punishment, but I am entirely unconvinced the middle line, carrot and stick, is really so evil. It has worked rather well for me.
Anyone else the same?
I tried very hard to get around smacking our dog when he was younger. I even had a book called "a compassionate guide to training your dog", among various others. Sadly I found smacking him worked more effectively than positive reinforcement or shouting for extremes of unacceptable behaviour.
In the end I reluctantly trained my dog as I saw my father trained our previous one. By measured and calculated smacks. Never through anger. Despite my initial reluctance, I am very happy with the results. You won't find a more affectionate, happy, and most importantly, well adjusted, dog.
For about 15,000 years this method was perfectly acceptable, but in the last few decades it seems people who take similar approaches have become the devil incarnate. I am told my dog is likely to be aggressive, and disobey me when I'm not there because he lives in fear. By contrast I have never seen evidence of this in either of my dogs.
Don't get me wrong I think the most effective training is to befriend a dog and have him want to please you, rather than do things through fear of punishment, but I am entirely unconvinced the middle line, carrot and stick, is really so evil. It has worked rather well for me.
Anyone else the same?
civicduty said:
Drinks bottle full of pebbles seems to be effective, for shaking not smacking.
A friend of a friend used this and says the same. He doesn't raise a hand to his dog anymore.I'd have gone the same way but it's the timing I considered really important, and I didn't always have a prepared bottle to hand.
Don't need either now.
Funk said:
I'm sure that in pack environments, other dogs gain dominance by being compassionate and gentle.
Wolves don't really do fighting for dominance. A wolf pack is a family. The younger follow the elder. Wolves who are forced into a pack artificially will fight for dominance however.I'm around 99% positive reinforcement, 1% negative - the proportions may even be lower than that. But I'd never rule it out completely.
Smacks only when you want to strongly discourage something, timing is everything and never in anger. Aim to shock, never to hurt - moving quickly and a gentle prod is probably just as effective as a wallop actually!
"Teenage" dogs especially need to be very VERY occasionally reminded that you have "teeth" and know how to use them. They will probably use the frequency and intensity of physical chastisement that you demonstrate on them on other animals they deem to be lower or more junior in the pack to them, so yes, I'd be aware of this too...
I've found when they get to around three (five if English Bull Terriers!) a flat, direct stare for a second or so with a forbidding expression (and then look away so they know there is no ongoing threat of aggression) is more than sufficient and I sometimes feel guilty about doing that!
Smacks only when you want to strongly discourage something, timing is everything and never in anger. Aim to shock, never to hurt - moving quickly and a gentle prod is probably just as effective as a wallop actually!
"Teenage" dogs especially need to be very VERY occasionally reminded that you have "teeth" and know how to use them. They will probably use the frequency and intensity of physical chastisement that you demonstrate on them on other animals they deem to be lower or more junior in the pack to them, so yes, I'd be aware of this too...
I've found when they get to around three (five if English Bull Terriers!) a flat, direct stare for a second or so with a forbidding expression (and then look away so they know there is no ongoing threat of aggression) is more than sufficient and I sometimes feel guilty about doing that!
aizvara said:
Wolves don't really do fighting for dominance. A wolf pack is a family. The younger follow the elder. Wolves who are forced into a pack artificially will fight for dominance however.
Do you have a pack yourself? As in a pack of dogs?As for smacking, what do you mean by smacking?
Came sooooo close to smacking my dog yesterday, but didn't. He used to be an arse when other dogs were around, not aggressive (often!) just refusing to come back when called. Yesterday I needed to get back to the car (it was raining and I'd left the roof down!) and he just refused... every time I got near him he buggered off a bit more. When I did finally catch him, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing/had done and he should have got a clout on the bum.
Today, because I didn't stamp my authority on him and he's very strong willed (Basset) he was just as bad - ended up back on his extending lead while all the other dogs we met up with were off theirs. I thought, he'd got the message so let him off again and he was great... until it was time to go home when he was back to sodding off a bit further every time I called him!
If he does it again tomorrow, I think he's getting a sharp clump across his bum even though I'll feel terrible about it afterwards. We are a 'pack' and someones got to be 'topdog' and it isn't going to be him!
Just to add, I've had loads of mutts over the years and rarely (if ever) smacked them. Phoebe, my other dog is so bloody good at all times that you just have to say her name in a particular tone and she knows....
Today, because I didn't stamp my authority on him and he's very strong willed (Basset) he was just as bad - ended up back on his extending lead while all the other dogs we met up with were off theirs. I thought, he'd got the message so let him off again and he was great... until it was time to go home when he was back to sodding off a bit further every time I called him!
If he does it again tomorrow, I think he's getting a sharp clump across his bum even though I'll feel terrible about it afterwards. We are a 'pack' and someones got to be 'topdog' and it isn't going to be him!
Just to add, I've had loads of mutts over the years and rarely (if ever) smacked them. Phoebe, my other dog is so bloody good at all times that you just have to say her name in a particular tone and she knows....
Edited by Xtriple129 on Monday 9th June 16:22
Sometimes adverse measures are needed to keep the dog in line. As has been mentioned before you have to do it quickly so the dog knows that its current behavior is the behavior that is being reprimanded. I have never smacked one of my dogs but I have scruffed them. Thing is you have to go from bad angry person to nice person quickly. You can't let the dogs behavior get you angry at it for a long period otherwise you just confuse the dog.
Xtriple129 said:
Came sooooo close to smacking my dog yesterday, but didn't. He used to be an arse when other dogs were around, not aggressive (often!) just refusing to come back when called. Yesterday I needed to get back to the car (it was raining and I'd left the roof down!) and he just refused... every time I got near him he buggered off a bit more. When I did finally catch him, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing/had done and he should have got a clout on the bum.
Today, because I didn't stamp my authority on him and he's very strong willed (Basset) he was just as bad - ended up back on his extending lead while all the other dogs we met up with were off theirs. I thought, he'd got the message so let him off again and he was great... until it was time to go home when he was back to sodding off a bit further every time I called him!
If he does it again tomorrow, I think he's getting a sharp clump across his bum even though I'll feel terrible about it afterwards. We are a 'pack' and someones got to be 'topdog' and it isn't going to be him!
Just to add, I've had loads of mutts over the years and rarely (if ever) smacked them. Phoebe, my other dog is so bloody good at all times that you just have to say her name in a particular tone and she knows....
The problem you have there is if you smack him after he's come to you, he'll not want to come to you...Today, because I didn't stamp my authority on him and he's very strong willed (Basset) he was just as bad - ended up back on his extending lead while all the other dogs we met up with were off theirs. I thought, he'd got the message so let him off again and he was great... until it was time to go home when he was back to sodding off a bit further every time I called him!
If he does it again tomorrow, I think he's getting a sharp clump across his bum even though I'll feel terrible about it afterwards. We are a 'pack' and someones got to be 'topdog' and it isn't going to be him!
Just to add, I've had loads of mutts over the years and rarely (if ever) smacked them. Phoebe, my other dog is so bloody good at all times that you just have to say her name in a particular tone and she knows....
Edited by Xtriple129 on Monday 9th June 16:22
Far better to use bribes to get him to come to you & then not letting him off the lead for a few days, letting him go as long as it will, calling him back & giving him a treat 3/5 times
Plus, you'll be angry & you should never smack when angry!!
Sexual Chocolate said:
Sometimes adverse measures are needed to keep the dog in line. As has been mentioned before you have to do it quickly so the dog knows that its current behavior is the behavior that is being reprimanded. I have never smacked one of my dogs but I have scruffed them. Thing is you have to go from bad angry person to nice person quickly. You can't let the dogs behavior get you angry at it for a long period otherwise you just confuse the dog.
Exactly, I did smack mind on odd occasion, when NO! didn't work, but it was a gentle slap on the rump, no force behind it.Never got angry with any of my dogs when I had them.
ali_kat said:
The problem you have there is if you smack him after he's come to you, he'll not want to come to you...
Far better to use bribes to get him to come to you & then not letting him off the lead for a few days, letting him go as long as it will, calling him back & giving him a treat 3/5 times
Plus, you'll be angry & you should never smack when angry!!
Problem I have at the mo is the teenage dog not coming back when there's other dogs and furry "prey" about. It frustrating but rewards and treats has got to work better than a smack. We've previously disciplined him by pinning him down and a stern "NO" with a pointy finger. Seems to have worked as he's an angel except when off the lead. Far better to use bribes to get him to come to you & then not letting him off the lead for a few days, letting him go as long as it will, calling him back & giving him a treat 3/5 times
Plus, you'll be angry & you should never smack when angry!!
They only two times I've smacked him was when he got out and I found him chasing sheep or horses which I won't tolerate. Both times I had to chase him about the fields for about 45 mins while he knew he was being naughty but didn't stop. Stupid bugger would catch the sheep and lick their faces!
Forum | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff